Opioids Heroin use every other day and withdrawals

[Intrinsic man]

Hello all,

I posted in BDD first but didn't really receive many helpful answers.

I have been insufflating black tar heroin at varied intervals regularly for the past, say, 3 months or so. More recently I have been using every other day, always insufflated. It has been about two weeks of using every other day and I am worried that I will soon suffer withdrawals. Does anyone have experience with this regiment? Can I continue this usage without suffering withdrawals for much longer? The day after using I don't feel any withdrawals, and by the end of the second day, other than craving some dope, I can't say I'm experiencing any adverse effects. I know I need to take a break, or stop all together, but the least I can do is keep it to every other day. Was just curious if this is frequent enough to cause withdrawals.

And to think I kept it to once a week for so long... Anyways, thanks in advance.

Oh and .2 - .3 over the course of 2 - 3 hours is typically my dose.

 

[f33lg00d]

In a typical person it shouldnt cause physical wds (psychological addiction will come on if you arent hooked already), though ive heard of people getting wds from every other day. Every other day turns into everyday pretty quick too... Are you only using once on on days?

 

[mustermann]

but the least I can do is keep it to every other day.

It sounds a bit as if you're psychologically addicted and use this arbitrary rule to justify your usage to yourself. (Just my speculation.)

In any case, why does it matter when exactly physical dependency sets in? Psychological dependency is what's hardest to break.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Thanks f33lg00d, yes I only use once on those days I typically dissolve .2 and snort it until its gone. I am high until I go to sleep, however.

Mustermann, I'm not justifying anything, I know I'm psychologically addicted. I just want to avoid getting sick so that I can remain functional and not HAVE to use to feel okay.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

There is no way to know for sure. Everyones body is different and some people get psychically addicted quicker than others.

If you've never had a habit before, which it sounds like you haven't, then it's doubtful that only 2 weeks of every other day use would be enough to cause you withdrawals.. but it's still possible.

It usually takes quite a bit of everyday using in the beginning before you become psychically dependent (with it happening much faster in the future). But the fact is that if you continue to use with your current schedule, one day you will wake up dependent and having withdrawals. Could be in another week, could be another month.

Do yourself a favor and stop before that happens because it will change your life forever.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Thank you, I just picked up and am planning for this to be my last ride for a while... hopefully I can stay off the dope for a week or so. I noticed before I picked up today I was feeling quite anxious but had no other symptoms, I'm assuming this is probably only psychological?

 

[mustermann]

But the fact is that if you continue to use with your current schedule, one day you will wake up dependent and having withdrawals. Could be in another week, could be another month.

Do yourself a favor and stop before that happens because it will change your life forever.

Why is physical dependency where you draw the line? I don't think that makes sense. The data doesn't seem to support it in any kind of way. The typical heroin addict successfully goes through withdrawals many times in his career as an addict. So he is successful to kick the physical addition multiple times. However, even after successful withdrawal, the psychological addiction remains. And the fact that the probability of a later relapse (again, a relapse at a point where physical dependence no longer exists) is in the ballpark of 90% strongly suggests that the psychological dependency is much tougher to beat.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Thank you, I just picked up and am planning for this to be my last ride for a while... hopefully I can stay off the dope for a week or so. I noticed before I picked up today I was feeling quite anxious but had no other symptoms, I'm assuming this is probably only psychological?

Probably. Like I said, everyone is different. I have known plenty of people that used exactly like you did and ended up strung out (dependent).. so, be careful.

If you keep using dope, and I mean at all, you will eventually become addicted. It's not the kind of drug you can just use casually.. So, maybe you'll avoid it this time.. but when you quit, you should make it for good, or pretty soon (way sooner then you would think) you're going to be in bad shape

Why is physical dependency where you draw the line? I don't think that makes sense. The data doesn't seem to support it in any kind of way.The typical heroin addict successfully goes through withdrawals many times in his career as an addict. So he is successful to kick the physical addition multiple times. However, even after successful withdrawal, the psychological addiction remains. And the fact that the probability of a later relapse (again, a relapse at a point where physical dependence no longer exists) is in the ballpark of 90% strongly suggests that the psychological dependency is much tougher to beat.

What are you talking about? This thread is about psychical dependency so that's what I answered on. I'd also love to see some actual sources for all this "data" and numbers you keep throwing out there.

Also.. have you ever even been addicted to opiates? It certainly doesn't sound like it because you talk like you read everything in a book somewhere that has no actual bearing on the reality of drug use.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Mr.sxagneti, I really really don't want to have to quite using opiates indefinitely as I enjoy them so much. Do you think if I took a long tolerance break and then switched back to hydrocodone I could potentially use with out it effecting my life negatively?

Mustermann, like I've already said, I draw the line with physical symptoms because they will have a much stronger effect on my responsibilities like school, work, relationships etc. I can still function and perform my responsibilities with a psychological addiction, but if I am terribly sick all the time these things will suffer greatly. I get your angle, but you're missing the point.

 

[mustermann]

What are you talking about? This thread is about psychical dependency so that's what I answered on.

I am talking about your claim in #5 that the day on which a heroin user first has withdrawals, his life changes forever. I think that statement doesn't make much sense so I replied to it.

I'd also love to see some actual sources for all this "data" and numbers you keep throwing out there.

This kind of pisses me off. You give nothing but anecdotes. No backups, no sources. But for me, the rules of posting in the forum are different? I must provide references but you don't? Why don't you just google? Or check out Wikipedia?

But to give you one number: 90% of opioid users going into a residential treatment program based on complete abstinence relapse to active addiction within 8 months and/or are "multiple relapse patients". (Source: Wikipedia.) They go through detox and kick the physical dependence. But, they relapse later due to still being psychologically addicted. Looking at data like this, how would you hypothesize that the point at which you first get sick is so important? Addicts manage to go through opioid detox, there's even medication that can help quite a bit. I don't see why the physical addiction is so significant. If we were talking about benzos, the situation would be somewhat different. But we're not.

Also.. have you ever even been addicted to opiates?

I don't think the answer to that question matters. What should be discussed is theories, scientific evidence, etc. Anecdotes aren't useful. People can claim all kinds of weird shit and there's no rigorous way to sort through single anecdotes.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^^

I'm not giving out statistics based on data in any of my posts. All of my replies are based on actual experience and collective knowledge. If I am giving out specific stats like you keep doing, then in order to back up my claim, I often do post sources.

And if you don't think it doesn't matter if you haven't actually gone through real drug addiction to talk about it and give advice, you're nuts. I've had this debate with tons of of people like you who read on the internet and like to come out and rock the boat by giving all these "stats", and it always ends the same way. You don't know what you are talking about because you have never been through it.

Would you want advice on how to fix your car from someone who's never picked up a tool in their life or looked under a hood? I don't think so.

I can say the things I say because I have over 10 years of real life experience and know the difference between the textbook definitions of drug related topics and the reality. It is often very very different.

If you want to argue credibility, man... you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Mustermann, mr.scagneti's responses are very helpful to me, that's really all that matters. I understand what you mean when you say psychological addiction is important to avoid and can be the most powerful aspect of addiction. However, the fact STILL remains that by avoiding chronic physical symptoms I can also avoid the detrimental aspects of my addiction like losing my job since I am extremely sick qnd unable to show up or perform the way I should or becoming a recluse since I am too sick to put time into my relationships. Please don't make me explain this again.

 

[mustermann]

I can say the things I say because I have over 10 years of real life experience and know the difference between the textbook definitions of drug related topics and the reality. It is often very very different.

Your real life experience is anecdotal. It cannot be generalized. You may be where you are due to your unique social background. Or maybe you're a genetic freak. Maybe you got lucky. Or unlucky. We don't know. One data point is not enough to find out.

If you want to argue credibility, man... you're barking up the wrong tree.

I am not trying to devalue in any way what you've been through. I am not saying that what you've learned IRL cannot be put to use on the forums. Just wanna be clear on that.

What I am taking issue with is that you made an extremely strong claim in #5. I've quoted it before, and paraphrased it, but I'll be happy to paraphrase it once again: the day on which a heroin user first wakes up being sick with withdrawals, that day his life will change forever.

I consider that claim dubious. What is so special about that point? What about the consumption before? Doesn't that mess with your brain's reward system? And what with the consumption thereafter? Doesn't that mess with your reward circuit, too? Isn't neuroplasticity a gradual process?

 

[stray cat]

Intrinsic Man, one thing to keep in mind is that especially in early stages of developing a physical dependence, it serves as a great reenforcer of both physical and psychological dependence--e.g., I can't be sick for work/miss school/etc. Monday so I've got to keep this up at least until next weekend, and so on, and as a result, both psychological and physical addiction gets worse.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Intrinsic Man, one thing to keep in mind is that especially in early stages of developing a physical dependence, it serves as a great reenforcer of both physical and psychological dependence--e.g., I can't be sick for work/miss school/etc. Monday so I've got to keep this up at least until next weekend, and so on, and as a result, both psychological and physical addiction gets worse.

This is what I am trying to avoid. If I can prevent myself from becoming physically addicted then this situation will never unfold. This is what mustermann seems to be missing; if I am only psychologically addicted, then I can continue my life without my addiction preventing me from completing my responsibilities, pursuing goals and other things of that nature. My goal is to keep my psychological condition under control enough to avoid physical withdrawals. Does this make sense?

Also, Mr.Scagnattie, I apologize for repeatedly misspelling your name. I was using my phone so it was difficult for me to double check.

Also, also, to tricomb, wherever you may be, I love and miss you. I'm sure my feelings can't even compare to how much you've been missing me though. It's been too long my friend, I look forward to you closing my thread like old times... until then, sending you all my love

 

[Morphling]

If you're going for credibility, quoting wikipedia is nearly about the worst source for that...you know, credibility? I just cannot....

So, you're speaking from wikipedia experience then? No heroin addiction from which to speak from actual experience?

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

At any rate, I find the physical withdrawal symptoms far worse than any psychic dependency. Mental addiction to heroin isn't the bit that keeps you locked to the toilet, puking at the same time, sweating buckets, and unable to sleep for days at a time. Not to knock psychic dependency, but it really doesn't compare, IMO.

 

[Intrinsic man]

At any rate, I find the physical withdrawal symptoms far worse than any psychic dependency. Mental addiction to heroin isn't the bit that keeps you locked to the toilet, puking at the same time, sweating buckets, and unable to sleep for days at a time. Not to knock psychic dependency, but it really doesn't compare, IMO.

Agreed. Even though I've never experienced opiate withdrawal, from what I know of alcohol withdrawal, I would say this is very accurate. Shit, this would even apply to cigarettes - basically ANYTHING for that matter, if you ask me. The strongest case could be made for cigarettes, however, but since I do terribly with physical symptoms I still think they've got the strongest pull.

The needle is also interesting; I have a friend who when he's out of dope will shoot up water just to satisfy his asphyxiation. Absolutely crazy IMO but then again I've never had any experience with stabbing myself.

 

[stray cat]

don't misunderstand.

for me, like 10 years into an active opiate addiction, the psychological is much stronger than the physical. i've come off opiates a number of times, and it sucks physically, but w/ time/tapering/ready availability of subs/etc., the only reason i am still on them reasonably now is psychological. BUT, in the early days, for me, it was the fear of the physical, coupled with the psychological (and responsibilities and whatever), that got me here. i'm way physically addicted now, but what i mean is that i have beat the purely physical a ton of times. the psychological is much harder. life is boring.

 

[p-helix]

Intrinsic man, I agree with straycat that slight physical withdrawals are a reinforcer to psychogical addiction in the early stages, for both practical and physical reasons, because taking heroin, feeling better, feeling pleasure increase in relation to relief increases the appetite for heroin. At a similar level of use to you, I was beginning to get withdrawals, I was becoming slightly physically addicted. I would have had to use less in order to prevent physical withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Intrinsic man]

I understand. I agree that the psychological aspect is what keeps people addicted to the substance more so than the physical. If it was only a matter of weathering through uncomfortable physical symptoms than most addicts would no longer be "addicts". What I'm saying though is that physical withdrawal, unlike psychological "withdrawal" (if that's what you want to call it), has much more effect on day to day responsibilities and is therefore much more detrimental to my life and the things I am obligated to accomplish. My work and school are unlikely to suffer because I'm craving some dope while on the other hand if I am extremely sick, nauseous, depressed, anxious, unable to eat/sleep and dysphoric those aspects, along with countless others, will be difficult to accomplish. In the long run it's the psychological aspect that will keep me addicted, sure, but what I am more concerned with, at least at this point, is my ability to function and perform adequately in my day to day responsibilities.