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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Cheshire_Kat

[heroin] first time; intranasal

You say you have 0 tolerance, and you insist you won't turn to the needle. I can understand that, but a bigger question would seem to be "do you plan to not get addicted"? Because you obviously will if you do it enough on a regular basis. And you most certainly cannot have any idea if you will turn to the needle if you are not addicted. I will tell you right now, some people start just snorting H with no intention of IV, but they end up doing it.

Look at what you rational is for doing heroin instead of Rx narcotics, because it is "economically" the better idea. Well of course there is the rush, but I think the economical reasons (much higher BA) is the reason so many people switch to IV. You already skipped a step in a lot of people narcotic addiction timelines that is usually forwarded for economical reasons. Most start with oxys/opanas( snorted or eaten), then to H (snorted), then to H ( IV). But you are not even addicted yet, well maybe you are now. Nonetheless, its already been said, no one starts with the plans to get addicted. The fact is you are most certainly in the minority and bucking the odds if you continue to do what you are doing and don't end up addicted.
 
Sorry, but Jesus Christ, 3 days in a row and even a day in between that, and you imagine you'll be able to stick to that?

Maybe if you'd said ONE day a week, but the trouble with opiates is that 3 days in a row, and even more than that, is far too much, and you'll start to feel the days in between are shit and not worth living. And pretty soon you'll see no reason to live that way.

Or does anyone with experience not agree? I think with opiates you either have to stick to a strict regime of once a week (and even that will take a lot of dicipline and self-control) or just settle for using every day (as little and with as little harm as possible). It's not exactly like you have the free will to use it however you'd like. The drug controls you, not the other way around
 
Ondine said:
You're right that I don't want to hear about the possibility of me using needles in the future. Personally, I've never been opposed to IM'ing drugs (like K or 2c-b), but to me, the idea of injecting something into my veins just seems so outlandish. Then again, 2 years ago even the thought of trying H seemed incredibly outlandish as well. I guess I just feel that there's this stigma surrounding heroin as a drug, when there is much less of a stigma surrounding those using opiates like codeine, oxycodone and hydrocodone. I understand that they are weaker drugs per dosage, but to me it seems very easy to cross that threshold where they become as serious and damaging as a full blown heroin addiction.
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Well i dunno about IV because to me inhaling burning toxic smoke seems to be a pretty strange because you need your lungs to breathe where as injecting is sorta more like a cut which can be easily repaired.
 
I snorted H for 10 years and swore up and down on a stack of Bibles that I would NEVER USE A NEEDLE!!! If you can stick with it then do your damndest to keep it that way!!! For me it was one day when I was terribly sick and a friend had just copped upstairs from where I lived (nice to have the dealer just upstairs, I thought) so they would come to my room to fix. My friend was strictly IV and he said to me: I'll get you off E but you're gonna have to do it my way...well you know what happened next...the dreaded "FUCKIT" syndrome!!! He had to do it for me cause I had no clue how to do it, and he's sayin to me "with snorting you're only getting about 60 to 75% of it into your system cause it gets caught by your mucus and the tiny hairs inside your nose" and all this other horseshit. "With injecting it you're getting 100% of it...no waste" so "ouch!!!" there I went...and the rush was sooooooo intense I was nodding in minutes. Now it's my preferred ROA...haven't tried smoking it cause I really don't know how to go about it and don't want to waste a precious granule of dope. STICK WITH INTRANASAL!!!
 
With an opiate like heroin; more than once a week is to much. Consecutive days of using is asking for trouble. Thank fuck I can only get codeine; my laissez faire attitude is moronic, but I know if I had anything stronger, I certainly wouldn't be able to control myself.

Have a good think about what's at stake for you man, I can't say cause I don't know you but please be careful.
 
Ondine said:
Yeah I felt pretty good when I woke up this morning, but I'm definitely feeling some slight withdrawal effects right now. Can't say that I really have a notable craving for it right now though. I've done approximately 60mg (at different intervals) since I got it on friday. Never really felt that I had to increase my dosage past more than 15mg at any point to get the effect I wanted at the time. That means I have about 190mg left. I'm going to try my best to refrain from using it again until friday or saturday.

Hopefully small doses of MXE will help to suffice if I'm feeling any stronger craving.
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dude, I am sorry, but you are an idiot, and should not be fucking with this stuff. You are absolutely not feeling slight widthdrawl - that takes a very long time to happen. What you are feeling is a hangover.... I'd suggest you read my post here:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/675999-doing-H-without-addiction

be careful man, its not worth it to make your life hell. I will tell you this: if you continue to use H, you will NOT control your use. Maybe for a bit, but eventually, you'll lost your shit.
 
Listen, this is how it will be, so just realize what going on. And honestly, if you are starting to feel any physical effects,its probably too late. But, maybe you will take that as a challenge and stop altogether... But anyway, Before you start feeling sick you will start to feel bored, a bit depressed, and the H will be on your mind all the time. You will start to need it to get through difficult social situations, whether at work or going to a party or out to a bar. Otherwise you will just as well sleep all day.

That is my experience at least. It started with just weekends, it was a great thing to look forward to, like having some beers when you were younger. Then I would do it 1-2 days a week, on top of the weekend usage. At that time I was good with 10 mg oxy or hydro. Then I started sleeping all day when I wasn't planning on using. The day would just be boring. I wasn't sick, but I found little enjoyment in those days. I did go about 6 month recreational use before I can say I felt the first true day of withdrawal. So don't think its a sure thing, it will get progressively worse, but there is plenty of time to change your mind and just don't do any narcotics.
 
I used opiates recreationally from age 14 till I was 25, 26 or so. Never used more than a few days in a row, never developed any sort of physical addiction. Then when life got too heavy I 'decided' to become physically addicted to opiates....at the time I reasoned my broken heart would be filled by the warmth of opiates.....it was...and I went on being an addict for another decade. Kept a job nearly the entire time, always had my own food, shelter, car, soon found a new partner (not an opiate user) who decided she would live with me and my addiction. Only towards the end, when I lost sight of how important my life is...did I surcome to the vice and addiction...start using opiates with a needle in the vein, decided to some extent to become a homeless person...but thank the Universe I never went there....... family stepped in, and I knew where/how to get help once I was taken back home. Love you Iboga!

Anyway, the moral of the story......not sure...just that not everyone gets into opiates and fills the role of 'stereotypical junkie.' From my point of view, opiates are a PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE way of self destruction and (assuming all things equal, assuming opiates were legal and pure) are CLEARLY a safer alternative to alcohol.

But to be master of that domain is not easy....I managed to 'chip' for over a decade, and I did decide to allow physical addiction to occur....and remained master of my domain in that I reached a tolerance ceiling and could remain at the same dose, and I fulfilled my obligations to society (sorta anyway, did it for 8 years of that 10 year addiction period) but yeah.......the road you are on is perhaps not as dangerous as the interstate highway system...but it is risky. Proceed with caution.
 
morninggloryseed said:
Anyway, the moral of the story......not sure...just that not everyone gets into opiates and fills the role of 'stereotypical junkie.' From my point of view, opiates are a PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE way of self destruction and (assuming all things equal, assuming opiates were legal and pure) are CLEARLY a safer alternative to alcohol.

But to be master of that domain is not easy....I managed to 'chip' for over a decade, and I did decide to allow physical addiction to occur....and remained master of my domain in that I reached a tolerance ceiling and could remain at the same dose, and I fulfilled my obligations to society (sorta anyway, did it for 8 years of that 10 year addiction period) but yeah.......the road you are on is perhaps not as dangerous as the interstate highway system...but it is risky. Proceed with caution.
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had to laugh at that to be honest but I completely understand what youre saying
 
The truth is startling. And I agree there is too much irony in 'safer' means of self destruction but then life is full of irony. I just found out we all pee out psychedelic amounts of bufotenine (dimethylserotonin)....its a primary metabolite of serotonin.
 
RTrain said:
Listen, this is how it will be, so just realize what going on. And honestly, if you are starting to feel any physical effects,its probably too late. But, maybe you will take that as a challenge and stop altogether... But anyway, Before you start feeling sick you will start to feel bored, a bit depressed, and the H will be on your mind all the time. You will start to need it to get through difficult social situations, whether at work or going to a party or out to a bar. Otherwise you will just as well sleep all day.

That is my experience at least. It started with just weekends, it was a great thing to look forward to, like having some beers when you were younger. Then I would do it 1-2 days a week, on top of the weekend usage. At that time I was good with 10 mg oxy or hydro. Then I started sleeping all day when I wasn't planning on using. The day would just be boring. I wasn't sick, but I found little enjoyment in those days. I did go about 6 month recreational use before I can say I felt the first true day of withdrawal. So don't think its a sure thing, it will get progressively worse, but there is plenty of time to change your mind and just don't do any narcotics.
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Great post mate, I can completely relate (unfortunately).
 
No. Well, on the exterior yes. But harmful particulates like cutting agents in dope, and especially binders/fillers in pills can ultimately end up deposited in the lungs causing all kinds of problems- primarily pulmonary edema. The frequency of use via one ROA or the other would determine which is more harmful, but in terms of rapid deterioration in pulmonary function, intensive IV use of any non-pure drug (contains something that is not water soluble= everything but [water soluble] chemicals in pure form and pharmaceutical IV preparations) will pose more of threat than equivalent use by chasing/vaporizing/smoking.

Everyone is right, but this thread has aged along with our OP. Hopefully he's taken our advice and turned right where so many of us went wrong, and slowed down and taken one of those elusive exits that many sped right past, obeying the signs saying WRONG WAY, instead yielding to life... How are these road metaphors working for ya'll?

I just wanted to point out that AMT is a very potent drug, and 30mg is a substantial dose. AMT releases significant quantities of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine, and also acts as an agonist at I think all 14(?) 5-HT sites/subtypes. But most importantly, regardless of what some of the scarce literature that does exist may claim, and despite the fact that it is reversible, AMT can cause clinically significant inhibition of MAO activity, and acts as a nonselective MAOI. Understanding this is important to begin with when taking AMT, but is critically relevant when combining AMT with any other drug.

The effects of the heroin would've certainly been intensified, and likewise the duration would have increased drastically, though it is not surprising the OP didn't notice this phenomenon, having never used heroin and thereby having no basis of comparison, but mainly due to the psycho stimulatory effects of the AMT. I know almost nothing about MXE, except that it's a dissociative-anaesthetic type drug which in addition to acting as an antagonist at NMDA receptor sites it also inhibits the reuptake of dopamine and serotonin. This also would have potentiated the effects of the heroin, and would've had a highly synergistic effect with the AMT. This was a risky cocktail and could've potentially been quite dangerous. Please be careful when taking any drug while using AMT.
 
Harm reduction compells me to say don't use heroin at all. However, but I've used (snorted, #4) heroin occassionally for maybe a year and a half now, in the 12-20mg level, ever since I tried some codeine pills (and promethezine) and realised they were very pleasant. I haven't upped my dose or regularity at all in this time. Compare that to random crappy stimulants which I have to not keep at home for sheer compulsive over use, and I think it's fair to say that while we all know heroin is strongly physically addictive, the mental side is more of an individual thing.

Course it helps that the few times I've thought to redose it's made me hugely nauseus!
I don't at all mean to imply that you shouldn't be careful, and jumping straight in with consecutive days usage seems somewhat reckless, but at least in my experience and dose levels it's nothing more than a pleasant occasional treat. I would say however, that that initial short period you mention is not at all the duration of the effects. I find it takes maybe 1.5 hours to reach a peak, which is when both the nausea and the nodding tiredness happen. See that off and you're in for a delightfully subtle comfort. Redosing to achieve the wave of relaxation you feel from first snorting is a sure fire method to wake up and vomit. Or worse, considering how bad a combination sleep and vomiting is.

Hopefully my experience hasn't made me cocky, as I've acquired (a very small amount of) some #3 to smoke just out of pure curiosity. But I'm scared to try it :)
 
it's all up to you guys. I've seen many people just start with pharmaceuticals. Eventually went from that to the brown powder to intravenous injections to a high tolerance that cost him too much money. Many people start with "I'm never going to IV" or "I'm going to IV once". Once you plant the seed, it's hard to maintain it's growth.

I used to think snorting was a rush, but snorting ain't shit. I don't snort my coke anymore unfortunately. I only stick to IV for powdered, water-soluble drugs.
 
The Dr said:
Then it becomes, I HAVE TO IV to sustain my life
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I mean, I'm not saying it'll make you IV right this instant, but curiosity(depending on the individual) will keep growing until a user will IV again and then slowly the increased use of a hypodermic needle will slowly become every other day or even daily because one gets used to stabbing themselves with a needle on a consistent basis especially if one have practiced this route of administration on themselves and gotten used to the ritual.
 
Damn just look at how many people are begging you and beating you over the head, not to abuse this shit. These people are the voice of experience, they know what theyre talking about. Do you ever see such overwhelming sentiment in pot or ecstasy threads? "Dont pick up that joint man youre going to ruin your life!' Many of these heroin users live pathetic, tortured lives and have become slave to the shit, and just dont want to see even a single other soul endure such torment. I mean half of these people dont even get high anymore, they only use to stave off the weeks of debilitating sickness, agony, and depression they get if they dont have it. Best of luck, hopefully you learn something from this thread.
 
I've never enjoyed heroin. Maybe I've gotten weak shit each and every time but.... I don't think it's that good ---->> Intranasally. Never shot up before. I think if I tried the needle even once, I would love it and go downhill faster than I am now.
 
dankhead88 said:
I mean, I'm not saying it'll make you IV right this instant, but curiosity(depending on the individual) will keep growing until a user will IV again and then slowly the increased use of a hypodermic needle will slowly become every other day or even daily because one gets used to stabbing themselves with a needle on a consistent basis especially if one have practiced this route of administration on themselves and gotten used to the ritual.
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I was just adding onto the next step. What you said is what I mean't but more drawn out. IV is a better choice for addicts and the reason i said "i have to IV to sustain my life" is because you get more "bang" for your buck. We all know addicts need that
 
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