Opioids Heroin and Methadon

[nash__]

I'm on 30 mg methadone, and I haven't taken a dose in 24 hours

I've heard that unless you're on 40mg + theres no blockade effect

my question is - a friend of mine has acquired some really really good diamorphine, and I was wondering if I would feel it if i IV'd a nice shot.

Would it penetrate through the methadone? Or should I just save it?

 

[Sepher]

The blockading effect of methadone is often said to typically kick in at around 80mg and up for addicts. At lower doses it will have a partial blockading effect I think. Impossible to say how much of one IMO. It's not so straightforward that 40mg is only half as blockading as 80mg for instance, it ain't gonna be that linear, and probably depends greatly on your tolerance. It has a much greater binding affinity than heroin ( diamorphine ) so you're relying on unoccupied receptors, the heroin not being all that able to break through it on those it occupies but you will certainly feel the heroin I'm sure, and it will almost certainly add greatly to however you're feeling now on the methadone. Be very careful with dose, paying appropriate respect to the creepiness of methadone and its super long half-life.

 

[helium-4]

You can feel it, but becareful because even if you don't feel the methadone anymore, it is still increasing the risk of respiratory depression due to it's long half-life. You still have alot of methadone in your system, so adding another respiratory depressant will significantly add to this even if the high doesn't represent the normal amount of respiratory depression seen with your heroin dose alone, so don't over do it.

 

[nash__]

The H i got was insane.

It ripped through the 30mg of methadone like nothing. I was nodding off off a Quarter gram

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

^This is to be expected. As others have mentioned, methadone doesn't have its full "blocking" effects until you get into the 70-80mg range, depending on tolerance and length of past use, etc. Considering that you waited at least 24 hours before taking the heroin means that some of the methadone was out of your system already anyway...

 

[nash__]

That was the first time IVing diamorphine in about 2 years too.


I still figured the methadone would be more powerful or my tolerance would be higher.

Maybe the batch was just good? Or is a 30mg methadone dose a day not really much of a tolerance?

Mind you I was also taking alprazolam too

 

[Tommyboy]

The H i got was insane.

It ripped through the 30mg of methadone like nothing. I was nodding off off a Quarter gram

I wouldn't say that it "ripped through" the methadone since it's not like buprenorphine which blocks by it's higher affinity to the opiate receptors. At that dose whatever methadone that was in your system may have actually added to the high.

The methadone blockage works differently than that of bupe, and works by keeping your tolerance high by having an opiate in you at all times when taken daily due to the half-life. So in essence, the blockade is really just an increase in tolerance, and keeps you from getting high because your body is so used to having opiates in your system, so adding more to it doesn't result in that much change in your system.

Think about it like this; If heroin were to have such a long half-life and you were consuming 12 bags everyday, then adding a few more bags wouldn't really produce that much of a difference in how you feel.

Edit: I just saw you mentioned taking alprazolam. Do you take that daily, or did you just take it this once along with the heroin?

 

[Znegative]

30mg of methadone is still a lot of methadone to take, but not enough to create a blockade effect. Just don't shoot more heroin or take other opiates on top of you're methadone too often, or you're going to really raise you're tolerance. I had a few friends that were on 40mg of methadone, and they started shooting dope on top of it, and in the end, they needed the methadone and the dope to stay straight (they didn't want to raise their methadone dose because of the undesired blockade effect)

 

[helium-4]

It didn't rip through anything, 30mg of methadone would only add to the heroin you used, not play a role of a blocker.


I'm not sure what you really are asking in the last post

 

[nash__]

I wouldn't say that it "ripped through" the methadone since it's not like buprenorphine which blocks by it's higher affinity to the opiate receptors. At that dose whatever methadone that was in your system may have actually added to the high.

The methadone blockage works differently than that of bupe, and works by keeping your tolerance high by having an opiate in you at all times when taken daily due to the half-life. So in essence, the blockade is really just an increase in tolerance, and keeps you from getting high because your body is so used to having opiates in your system, so adding more to it doesn't result in that much change in your system.

Think about it like this; If heroin were to have such a long half-life and you were consuming 12 bags everyday, then adding a few more bags wouldn't really produce that much of a difference in how you feel.

Edit: I just saw you mentioned taking alprazolam. Do you take that daily, or did you just take it this once along with the heroin?

I was taking alprazolam on and off this last week. Last night I took 2 mgs one before the H because I was so anxious and excited, and 1 later that night when the dope was wearing off.

I dont know whether it "ripped" through it or not, it just felt like the diamorph gave me a REALLY strong high.. but this combination of the methadone and H + the alprazolam

is probably what did it


I grabbed a half gram (two bags), banged a half a bag, was almost nodding, did the other half, was high.


then later that night I banged the entire second bag in one shot, after taking 1mg alprazolam

24 hours after 30mg methadone

 

[Sepher]

The methadone blockage works differently than that of bupe, and works by keeping your tolerance high by having an opiate in you at all times when taken daily due to the half-life. So in essence, the blockade is really just an increase in tolerance, and keeps you from getting high because your body is so used to having opiates in your system, so adding more to it doesn't result in that much change in your system.

Tommyboy, I've completely misunderstood the mechanism of action for the blockade effect reading this, confirmed by a quick Google. I was under the impression the blockade effect relied on the binding affinity of methadone prescribed at a level sufficient to flood available receptors, keeping other opiates with lower affinity out. i.e. narcotic blockade proper. Not grasped at all it's a function of cross-tolerance. Duly noted.

 

[nash__]

So tommyboy

is what you're saying that I had a lower tolerance and the dia was good quality? and thats how i got so high?

my question is regarding how I got so high on 30mg methadone

 

[Tommyboy]

First I want to mention that you should be very careful when mixing alprazolam or any other benzos with methadone or heroin. There are so many deaths each year attributed to the benzo/opiate combo, and alprazolam and methadone accounts for many of these.

Next, I don't think that 30mg of methadone has raised your tolerance to the point of heroin having little to no affect on you. You may have gotten high due to your tolerance not being extremely high like that of people on 80+ mg of methadone, or you may have gotten high due to the heroin adding onto the methadone, or a combination of the two.

When I explained how the blockade affect of methadone works before, you can see how you still got high on that dose. Lets say that 10mg of methadone = .2 of heroin, for arguments sake. Adding .25 onto an equivalent of .6 (since you take 30mg of methadone) can still get you high since the methadone doesn't have your tolerance so high. But for someone on 80mg of methadone, that would be like them having 1.6 of heroin in them at all times, so an additional .25 wouldn't get them high because it would be like taking 1.85 that day instead of the usual 1.6, which really isn't that big of a difference in the big picture.

The equivalent doses I mentioned are just hypothetical, but you get the idea of what I am getting at.

Another way of looking at the blockade would be to think of it in terms of drinking beers. If someone is drinking 25 beers a day for a while, then drinking 30 beers one day won't really make much of a difference. If someone is drinking 6 beers a day though, then 5 more beers would get them wasted.

 

[Znegative]

Well it's like SplatChrome said, the methadone at that dosage added to the heroin, or rather the heroin added to the methadone. 30mg daily is a high dose of opioid to take, but it's not enough to block other potent opioids. I doubt you'd be able to feel anything from codiene, tramadol, hydrocodone, and other weaker opioids/opiates.