N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
Heroin #3 vs. Heroin #4
Hfelix2k10
Greenlighter
Heroin 3 being a base and 4 being salts, hcl. I'm not very familiar so I apologize if I come across as stupid. Is there any difference in use between the base and salts, other then the salts being more potent?
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
The salts are not necessarily more potent, depends on the pharmacodymanics of the specific salt/molecule combination versus same molecule's freebase. Namely, the salt is more readily water soluble and the freebase has to be protonated with an acid or another to become it's specific cognate salt before being readily absorbed by a method other than vaporization/inhalation (again this depends on burning vs. vaporization point of salt vs. base too)
My question always has been (and beyond just guesses from people) what in the Asian numbering system are number #1 & #2, if they even exist (if not, why start the nomenclature at #2 & 3?) I've heard guesses suggesting ideas from 1 being morphine or raw opium latex extract or extract in meconate, but that doesn't seem intuitive at all to me as that isn't *heroin*, perhaps a heroin creation (acetylated) impurity product to be weeded out, as in 3-MAM & 6-MAM?
https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154330
Says the numbers are steps in the refining process...#1 is morphine, #2 is acetate or #1 is opium and #2 is morphine base...
Makes sense, if you look at it from the perspective of heroin being a slang term to describe a product and not from the perspective of heroin being diacetylmorphine...who knows if it is true.
Hfelix2k10
Greenlighter
Very helpful
Should have paid attention in school, the numbers I read for 1 and 2 came from the fda scheduling. But yes basically 1 was prepared morphine and 2 acetate
serotonin2A
Bluelighter
Such a numbering system would make no sense. Why would morphine be called "heroin no. 1"?! The DEA developed this numbering scheme to classify seized samples, so it would be based on the actual name of the chemical.
Heroin no. 1 is the raw, unpurified product of acetylation.
No. 2 is incompletely purified (ie, filtered and decolorized, but not recrystallized).
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
This makes the most sense to me.
If it's a double-protonated corrosive acid in a contained environment where an an environmental suit is required to handle it, could that be heroin #5? %)
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
Also, black-tar heroin would be doing step #1, then skipping to step #4? or is there part of the process of 2 or part of 3 in there as well?
serotonin2A
Bluelighter
This classification scheme was devised way before the appearance of black tar. My recollection is that the DEA doesn't classify black tar as any one of these types.
Felonious Monk
Bluelight Crew
I think you've got something there too. Recently saw some test results for DNM heroin and the differences in diacetylmorphine vs 6-MAM vs codeine something content were quite different (shockingly high % for all, but surprising different amounts of the codeine compound and 6-MAM, with corresponding dips in diacetyl numbers...)
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
That's what I am saying, it isn't any one of those types because each number in this system has all the previous steps done to it, but tar is at least 1 & 4 with some omission or entire omission of steps 2 & 3, correct?
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Tar heroin is nothing more than acetylated opium, IIRC, but then again I have never fucked with the stuff in my life, so there's that.
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
I have read that argument and seen it refuted; seeing as there are no alkloids common in opium in amounts anywhere near that of what is found in tar; indeed only being varying degrees of acetylated morphine (heroin, 6-MAM poss. 3-MAM), so can compete in potency with equal purity heroin of all the usual steps in its creation process due to higher 6-MAM content than otherwise had in di-acetyl-M.
e.g. 75%-80% 6-MAM as total content of DEA detained examples of tar heroin wouldn't mesh with it being opium that has simply been acetylated.
We would instead see thebaine, papaverine, reticuline, noscapine, codeine (or acetylated versions thereof) in much greater amounts. Possibly not an injectable preparation either, as I've not heard of opium tincture, deodorized or not, as being safe to inject.
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serotonin2A
Bluelighter
You still have to extract the morphine from opium to make tar -- the difference is how the morphine is acetylated and how the product is purified.
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
Which is my point exactly as to why calling tar heroin "acetylated opium" is a misnomer at best.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Right, I stand corrected then. Makes more sense as otherwise the purity would be, at maximum, something like 20%..