Helping family member detox off opiates, guidance appreciated

[TRC042]

I'm helping a family member (he lives with me) get off suboxone and get clean; he came to the decision to get clean on his own. He is off the subox (been on it for over 4 years) and on 60 mg oxy per day. Plans to use Methoxetamine (starting 10 days from now) to deal with the withdrawal period. Since I'm the one who will be handing out the MXE and handling any emergency issues, I want to learn as much as possible. Any kind of support I can find will be a good thing. I'll have questions like "what substances or OTC meds are OK with MXE", "Is marijuana and MXE dangerous", etc.

Just want to ask since I'm new here and don't want to alienate anyone inadvertently:
- Is posting something like the above in one of the forums OK?
- Is there a particular forum I should be following and posting on?

It's going to be one rough ride. Not my first rodeo; been dealing with family substance abuse since 1987. But I suspect it will be the hardest.

Feedback will be appreciated.

 

[gay.in.texas]

first off posting something like this in either the dark side or other drugs is not only ok, i encourage you to as far more people will see it and be able to offer insight there. and if you start a thread in the wrong section, the mods most likely wont close it but will just move it to where it belongs. that being said, and i dont think im alone here, having been through withdrawals and very familiar (though not first hand) with the effects of MXE, i really dont see this as going well. 60mg of oxy a day is an amount that with willpower and the support of a family member, he should be able to handle going cold turkey. or you said he used to use suboxone. suboxone is actually a detox drug, idk if he aquired it legally or illegally, but its made to soothe withdrawals. if he could aquire more suboxone, stopping the oxy til he was in moderate withdrawals, then dosing a bit of suboxone every day or two for the acute withdrawal period then after about 5-6 days stopping the suboxone would lead to an almost painless detox. i and many many others have kicked both of the ways i described to great success. ive just never heard of someone using MXE to kick... especially not successfully. just my 2 cents but i am an extremely experienced ex-IV heroin addict. but by all means do research before deciding on a course of action, and definitely start a thread on one of the areas of the forum more relevant to the topic and more high traffic. but best of luck to you, i admire your strength in going through this with your family member, and feel free to message me if you need help

 

[TRC042]

I've read a lot of posts by longtime Suboxone users stating that getting off suboxone was 10X harder than getting off opiates - the withdrawal symptoms are claimed to be much more severe. He's doing all this to get off the subox first, then off the opiates entirely. There's no way he's going to 'taper down' from the oxy. He's honest enough with himself about that and I think he's right. He says he can tolerate puking his guts out and being hellishly sick for a few days, but will never make it through a gradual tapering. I know him pretty well and I think he is right.

I was with him after he relapsed for a couple of weeks, went off the subox and used heroin. Going back on the subox caused precipitated withdrawal: I literally held his hand for 2-3 days straight. He was in agony. (Kudos to the MD who started a subozone forum - we wouldn't have made it without their page on Precipitated Withdrawal). I assume the withdrawal from the oxy will not be much better. But at least it won't as bad as the precipitated withdrawal - that was hell.

We both researched Ibogaine: but getting it safely in the US is very sketchy - lots of accounts of bad, bad experiences (ie serious illness with no withdrawal relief, hundreds of $$ for tree bark that does nothing, etc.). Can't afford the trip to Canada or any other place reliable anyway.

I don't know what forums he uses - I stay out of his head as much as possible. Support and enabling is a razor's edge for both parties. But he claims he's read dozens of posts by opiate users claiming Methoxetamine got them through going cold turkey - which is what he plans to do. Using the Methoxetamine to alleviate the withdrawal symptoms.

I know Ketamine has been used to alleviate withdrawal symptoms. And I know (still not my first rodeo) that for alcohol detox they use 50-100mg Librium more than 1x/day: treatment centers hand it out like candy. Since it's pretty much impossible to get addicted to Librium in 4-5 days, it kind of makes sense. But I also know that adding heavy benzo's to an opiate user's system is almost guaranteed to kill them!

All I can do is be there for him. If I start telling him what to do I'll fall off that razor's edge: 'course the fall won't hurt either of us, but the landing...

 

[a100unitSHOT]

I apologize, I'm confused... He was on suboxone, then went to OC? Was it originally prescribed for pain, or was it just straight drug abuse? I'm assuming for pain, but could you clarify? It would help me give a better answer as someone who's been addicted to both.

posting something like this in either the dark side or other drugs is not only ok, i encourage you to as far more people will see it and be able to offer insight there.

This is the best place for it. TDS is a place where people trying to get clean (or people trying to get a family member clean) can post, and get support from people who have been there.

 

[TRC042]

I apologize, I'm confused... He was on suboxone, then went to OC? Was it originally prescribed for pain, or was it just straight drug abuse? I'm assuming for pain, but could you clarify? It would help me give a better answer as someone who's been addicted to both.

He was addicted to heroin about 4 years ago. Was put on subox by a clinic to stop heroin use. Subox is legal and by prescription, but it's still an addiction. And they kept upping his subox over the years; seems like that's pretty common. The subox eventually had him feeling dope-sick half the day despite the very high dose he had. So he recently decided to get off everything. And made a plan to do so.

Since the subox withdrawal (at his dosage) would be absolute hell, he got his hands on enough oxy for 3 weeks and stopped the subox. After about 3 days (subox stays in your system a long time) he started on the oxy. Once the oxy is gone he is going cold turkey and relying on the Methoxetamine (a Ketamine analogue) to ease the withdrawal symptoms. Been on the oxy about 10 days as of today. Will have enough Methoxetamine for about 5-6 days. Then absolutely nothing.

The hope is the Ketamine analogue will work better than clonodine, immodium, and hot baths. But I need to know a lot more. Can clonodine and immodium be used safely with Methoxetamine? Is there anything else (such as Benadryl) that should be avoided? What are the warning signs that the Methoxetamine is causing life-threatening side effects? Can you become addicted to Methoxetamine in 5 days? Etc.

 

[TRC042]

I think Kratom is what you really should be looking at.

It seems that mxe is only psychologically addictive. BTW, how much is enough mxe for 5-6 days?

Not sure, so we ordered 5 grams. 25 200mg doses, 50 100mg, etc. May sound like a lot, but better too much on hand than not enough. If he decides he wants to do it more than 2 weeks, there's plenty of rope and gorilla tape...

 

[carrion Doll]

There is a kratom mega thread here that will help you immensely- http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/607680-The-Kratom-(Mega)Thread-v2

This thread has helped me so much. I am currently detoxing from suboxone using kratom. I am on day 7 and have experienced almost no withdrawal symptoms. The ones I have experienced were mild. Mostly just a little trouble sleeping but really not bad at all. Kratom has been a lifesaver for me. I also had the worst withdrawals from suboxone. Even after tapering down to a very low dose (.25-.5/day). The megathread has tons of good info and is a great place for questions.

I want to say that what you are doing is absolutely great. As someone who has had little to no support myself, your relative is very lucky to have someone like.

 

[TRC042]

There is a kratom mega thread here that will help you immensely- http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/607680-The-Kratom-(Mega)Thread-v2

This thread has helped me so much. I am currently detoxing from suboxone using kratom. I am on day 7 and have experienced almost no withdrawal symptoms. The ones I have experienced were mild. Mostly just a little trouble sleeping but really not bad at all. Kratom has been a lifesaver for me. I also had the worst withdrawals from suboxone. Even after tapering down to a very low dose (.25-.5/day). The megathread has tons of good info and is a great place for questions.

I want to say that what you are doing is absolutely great. As someone who has had little to no support myself, your relative is very lucky to have someone like.

Wow! I've read a lot of accounts stating quitting suboxone is much harder than quitting heroin. At least, they claim the total withdrawal process is much longer lasting. So kudos to you!

I might mention the Kratom to him, but he's pretty stubborn. Tends to automatically do the opposite of anything I suggest. So I generally keep my mouth shut and let him decide when he's ready to make a change. Since he's already determined to quit via the MXE, I'll just be there and keep him safe.

He will never taper off: he knows he'll never make it. Recently he went through Precipitated Withdrawal which was very, very excruciating - never seen him in such agony. But he learned that he can survive a total withdrawal and he is sick of being dope sick every day. So he decided a week or so of being really sick and getting it over with is his only choice. I do agree with him about that.

It isn't going to be fun for either of us. All I can do is be there for him, keep him safe. All my research says the MXE is not deadly. And he's definitely not stupid about a new drug: he will start small and add until he finds a safe level. Lessons learned from the heroin - get a batch of 90 percent and dive in like it's the 20 percent you usually get? He knows that kills a lot of people.

Thanks for the encouragement. I hope the kratom and the tapering continue to go well for you. What you are doing takes a lot of strength. I wish you the best.

 

[carrion Doll]

Wow! I've read a lot of accounts stating quitting suboxone is much harder than quitting heroin. At least, they claim the total withdrawal process is much longer lasting. So kudos to you!

I might mention the Kratom to him, but he's pretty stubborn. Tends to automatically do the opposite of anything I suggest. So I generally keep my mouth shut and let him decide when he's ready to make a change. Since he's already determined to quit via the MXE, I'll just be there and keep him safe.

He will never taper off: he knows he'll never make it. Recently he went through Precipitated Withdrawal which was very, very excruciating - never seen him in such agony. But he learned that he can survive a total withdrawal and he is sick of being dope sick every day. So he decided a week or so of being really sick and getting it over with is his only choice. I do agree with him about that.

It isn't going to be fun for either of us. All I can do is be there for him, keep him safe. All my research says the MXE is not deadly. And he's definitely not stupid about a new drug: he will start small and add until he finds a safe level. Lessons learned from the heroin - get a batch of 90 percent and dive in like it's the 20 percent you usually get? He knows that kills a lot of people.

Thanks for the encouragement. I hope the kratom and the tapering continue to go well for you. What you are doing takes a lot of strength. I wish you the best.

Man, I am right there with him. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. And when I was on oxy before I started the subs, it was an all day process of getting up the money, then finding who had what and then waiting and waiting and waiting just to get well, not even high anymore. So tired of running and waiting all day and of feeling like shit every morning til I got something. It's no way to live.

He sounds just like my husband, can't tell them anything. If I want him to do something, I have to find a way to make him think it was his idea in the first place. lol Maybe if you leave some info about kratom pulled up and the computer? Or mention it like "oh so I heard about this kratom stuff that is supposed to be good but idk..." and hope he researches it himself, lol. I don't really know much about MXE so as far as I know it could be great. But I just wanted to put my experience out there so maybe he could have some other options if he finds the MXE doesn't work as well as he thought.

And suboxone was a nightmare for me. The stupid thing is, when I went to get suboxone from my doc, I had weaned myself down to 30mgs of oxy a day. And my stupid doctor put me on 16mgs of suboxone a day. That was way too much. Of course I didn't find all this out til too late. These docs way overuse subs. I should have been put on a low dose for a week or so and then tapered off. But this doc was talking about having me on this stuff for a minimum of two years. And then he started telling me how some addicts have to be on it forever because it is the only way they can fight their addiction. bullshit! They just want $$.

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I hope you guys get through this as painlessly as possible. Good luck!

 

[TRC042]

Man, I am right there with him. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. And when I was on oxy before I started the subs, it was an all day process of getting up the money, then finding who had what and then waiting and waiting and waiting just to get well, not even high anymore. So tired of running and waiting all day and of feeling like shit every morning til I got something. It's no way to live.

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I hope you guys get through this as painlessly as possible. Good luck!

You are indeed right there with him: He has used just about every phrase you wrote several times lately - verbatim. It's good to know that others have gone there and succeeded. At this point he just wants to get off and be able to eventually wake up feeling not-dope-sick ever again.

PM me re the subox doctors; I can share my similar stories. But he has a truly good subox MD and script to fall back on if he needs to.

I'll try the "can you believe some guy on-line suggested a stupid thing called Kratom tea for Withdrawal"? routine. Can't hurt to try. Never worked for me before though. Bear in mind that I'm his Dad: not listening to me is kind of his job - even at 25.

I'm scared the MXE won't arrive, scared it won't work, scared it won't be real MXE, scared it could make him really sick. Just plain scared. I suppose that's normal. Under the circumstances.

I've found a couple of people on other threads here who have used the MXE to control opiate withdrawal. Seemed to work OK for them, which is good news. But the more I hear the better, because that's what we are rapidly approaching.