Opioids Help with withdrawal

[Ballu]

How come everybody bitches about how hard it is to get off suboxone? Maybe because it is awful.

As in it is much harder to get off, of it then what he is on.

Not to mention a suboxone script on your medical records means you are a drug addict.

You will be treated as such by doctors for the rest of your life.

To be brutally honest, I truly could careless if doctors know that I'm on suboxone.. guess what? I'm clean, and have been clean for over a decade. That's what I care about. That's what matters to me.

I've never had an issue with a doctor treating me different due to being on suboxone. I don't want opiates, so what am I losing out on by them knowing im on suboxone? If I was still in the streets getting high, or had any desire to go out there and start using.. or needed to doctor shop, then maybe I would care, but all that stuff is behind me.. so there really isn't anything that having that on my medical record is doing that's going to bother me.

Even when I had surgery, they still gave me opiates for the post surgery pain and then eventually got me back on my suboxone when I was getting ready to go home. And when I was in the hospital for something different, and found out I had some issue with my back.. they put me on dilaudid 8mg 3x a day.. and this was with Suboxone on my medical record. So not really sure what you're referring to about 'you will be treated as such the rest of your life' ..I've had suboxone on my medical record for over a decade, have been to the hospital and seen many doctors over the years, and have been treated fine. I don't want opiates, hence why I got on suboxone in the first place. I had more then enough opiates as a youth.. I'm a grown man now, and living a completely different life. If I could do things different as far as getting on Suboxone, I wouldn't. This is only an issue if you're still trying to live that life.. which im not, so no issues for me atleast.

 

[Ballu]

The trick to tapering is to do it slowly.
Very slowly.

Yes, this is what I've heard as well. Nice and slow, and don't try and rush it.

And for people on opiods looking to avoid w/ds.. and want to use suboxone to aid in it, research the Bernese Method. This will help you avoid w/ds, while safely transitioning to suboxone.

Suboxone has truly been a life saver for me, and will never regret getting started with it. I had a heroine addiction for at least a decade, and truly thought I would never get off it. Seeing the state of the heroine scene nowadays, I'm so glad that I was able to get clean before this whole fentanyl disaster started.

 

[Jnowhere]

To be brutally honest, I truly could careless if doctors know that I'm on suboxone.. guess what? I'm clean, and have been clean for over a decade. That's what I care about. That's what matters to me.

I've never had an issue with a doctor treating me different due to being on suboxone. I don't want opiates, so what am I losing out on by them knowing im on suboxone? If I was still in the streets getting high, or had any desire to go out there and start using.. or needed to doctor shop, then maybe I would care, but all that stuff is behind me.. so there really isn't anything that having that on my medical record is doing that's going to bother me.

Even when I had surgery, they still gave me opiates for the post surgery pain and then eventually got me back on my suboxone when I was getting ready to go home. And when I was in the hospital for something different, and found out I had some issue with my back.. they put me on dilaudid 8mg 3x a day.. and this was with Suboxone on my medical record. So not really sure what you're referring to about 'you will be treated as such the rest of your life' ..I've had suboxone on my medical record for over a decade, have been to the hospital and seen many doctors over the years, and have been treated fine. I don't want opiates, hence why I got on suboxone in the first place. I had more then enough opiates as a youth.. I'm a grown man now, and living a completely different life. If I could do things different as far as getting on Suboxone, I wouldn't. This is only an issue if you're still trying to live that life.. which im not, so no issues for me atleast.

That could change. When it does and suboxone has an opiod in it. One of the hardest to get off of. You,ll will probably at some point want off all opiods incuding buprenorphine which is a replacement drug far harder to get off any other opiod besides methadone.
You traded one opiod for another. Your magic cure ie bupe. Wait till you need pain relief.lol

 

[DrChivago]

You need to acquire some SR-17018. Its the best and easiest way to lower tolerance and or quit all together. Its essentially a cheat code.

You will experience NO acute withdrawals whatsoever, and PAWS are no more severe than a little aches and pains in your muscles. You reset your opiate tolerance to naive in 2 weeks.

It's not expensive as some people would lead you to believe, in fact it's incredibly cheap at around $50/g. Three grams would be enough to substitute/ stabilize on your current dose of morphine/hydro, and from there you taper down 10-15% every other day until you are taking 25mg. Then at that point you have reset your tolerance and can stop bc the SR will be doing nothing psycho actively speaking, it will just be a mental crutch.

I went from taking 80mg of methadone to abstinence in less than a month and remained clean for 6 months. I started dabbling again simply bc I can get the purest #4 china white straight from S. America. that anyone has ever seen. But I also have 3 grams of SR stashed for when I decide to stop again.

 

[DrChivago]

Acquire some sr-17018 Reddit has a master thread with all the info you need. The stuff is nothing short of a miracle.

This is the way. Its almost so easy its stupid to do it any other way

 

[ind33d]

You need to acquire some SR-17018. Its the best and easiest way to lower tolerance and or quit all together. Its essentially a cheat code.

You will experience NO acute withdrawals whatsoever, and PAWS are no more severe than a little aches and pains in your muscles. You reset your opiate tolerance to naive in 2 weeks.

It's not expensive as some people would lead you to believe, in fact it's incredibly cheap at around $50/g. Three grams would be enough to substitute/ stabilize on your current dose of morphine/hydro, and from there you taper down 10-15% every other day until you are taking 25mg. Then at that point you have reset your tolerance and can stop bc the SR will be doing nothing psycho actively speaking, it will just be a mental crutch.

I have no problem with the label "research chemical" itself or many of the substances describable as such in the very modern sense. I'd take any number of them right now.

But SR-17018 is atypical both as an opioid and in some ways as a research chemical.

Concisely, my problems amount to: limited research data let alone any human clinical data whatsoever, and conceptual instability vis a vis the validity and achievability of the G-protein/β-arrestin dichotomy-inspired (lest we end up with a sort of "σ-OR" - or perhaps more "εOR"-like - moment) design.

Perhaps it's the romantic in me, but I don't like the notion of proving a highly proprietary complex molecule basically starting at semi-mass human trials level (after a very limited and inconclusive paltry half-dozen or so non-human trials). Also, I have elementary school nephews who were born before SR-17018 was. For some reason this concerns me.

Perhaps it is all just too wildly hypothetical for me at this point.

So how is SR-17018 supposed to feel? Is it supposed to function as basically superior buprenorphine? In a MAT-esque capacity?

As a highly μOR-specific high-efficacy high-partial agonist opioid ligand with a hypothetical G-protein signalling bias, it would function usefully here... how?

I understand that some draw a conclusion of a possible and markedly less pronounced rate of tolerance to analgesic effect as a primary benefit of SR-17018. And I understand the prospective appeal of a pro G-protein/non β2-arrestin bias in aspiring to a useful but so far dubiously achievable concept for opioid ligands. And doing so at a higher intrinsic activity than buprenorphine can offer. And if it all works as very deliberately intended, that could make for a very clinically-useful opioid analgesic that potently attenuates nociception with an improved safety and side effects profile that includes a delayed or limited development of tolerance. Ok.

So how does any of that plus all the stuff I don't understand about it translate into... SR-17018 being a superior tool in facilitating opioid cessation? In practice or theory?

I'm mostly only getting the sparse lab data and some brief anecdotal takes as I've looked around for info over the past months, and I have this whole thing where probably hell will freeze over before I ever end up on Reddit so I'm at a bit of a loss here presently.


xxxxx
Edit: I guess what I'm saying is, what you're saying doesn't make sense, unless it happens to be that it is amongst the abundance of what we don't know about SR-17018 wherein lies its most miraculous effects that just work out in vivo in humans.

Also, I don't know if sensational Internet research chemical is aligned with the direction OP is either accustomed to nor attempting to go now.

But mostly just that I don't really know much of anything, and haven't the personal experience. So like with all the drugs, while I can't second your recommendation to anyone, I'd probably try the stuff myself given certain circumstances. For science.


xxxxx
Edit 2:
*Per Kudła et al., "Comparison of an Addictive Potential of μ-Opioid Receptor G-Protein-Biased Agonists SR-14968 and SR-17018 with PZM21 Biomolecules" in 2021:

"We found that SR-14968 and SR-17018 possess addictive characteristics, as they are rewarding and cause withdrawal syndrome. Interestingly, the compounds, especially SR-17018, can slightly delay the development of morphine tolerance and attenuate withdrawal in mice dependent on morphine."

(https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8779292/)

*Per Fritzwanker et al., "SR-17018 Stimulates Atypical µ-Opioid Receptor Phosphorylation and Dephosphorylation" in 2023:

"For many years, the biased signaling concept has been reduced to analysis of G-protein signaling versus ß-arrestin 2 recruitment, and the resulting bias factor has been proposed as a predictor of the therapeutic window. SR-17018 is one candidate compound that was developed based on the biased signaling hypothesis [3]. While the initial study reported an extremely high bias factor in different G-protein assays over ß-arrestin 2 recruitment, later work showed no statistically significant bias towards or away from any G-protein activation [4]. Nevertheless, the present study revealed a unique MOP phosphorylation and internalization profile for SR-17018 that does not support the initial report of an extremely high bias factor."

and

"SR-17018 exhibits a peculiar pharmacological profile in preclinical animal models, where it has been shown to prevent opioid withdrawal signs [3,5]. Such activity has previously been observed for buprenorphine but not for any other biased MOP agonist [8,13]. This suggests that opioids with delayed dephosphorylation kinetics may be useful for opioid maintenance therapy."

(https://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/26/15/4509)

An opioid... that reduces opioid withdrawal... because it is an opioid that has replaced another opioid? That's a more reasonable starting point. Surely different opioids can have different effects.

 

[DrChivago]

I have no problem with the label "research chemical" itself or many of the substances describable as such in the very modern sense. I'd take any number of them right now.

But SR-17018 is atypical both as an opioid and in some ways as a research chemical.

Concisely, my problems amount to: limited research data let alone any human clinical data whatsoever, and conceptual instability vis a vis the validity and achievability of the G-protein/β-arrestin dichotomy-inspired (lest we end up with a sort of "σ-OR" - or perhaps more "εOR"-like - moment) design.

Perhaps it's the romantic in me, but I don't like the notion of proving a highly proprietary complex molecule basically starting at semi-mass human trials level (after a very limited and inconclusive paltry half-dozen or so non-human trials). Also, I have elementary school nephews who were born before SR-17018 was. For some reason this concerns me.

Perhaps it is all just too wildly hypothetical for me at this point.

So how is SR-17018 supposed to feel? Is it supposed to function as basically superior buprenorphine? In a MAT-esque capacity?

As a highly μOR-specific high-efficacy high-partial agonist opioid ligand with a hypothetical G-protein signalling bias, it would function usefully here... how?

I understand that some draw a conclusion of a possible and markedly less pronounced rate of tolerance to analgesic effect as a primary benefit of SR-17018. And I understand the prospective appeal of a pro G-protein/non β2-arrestin bias in aspiring to a useful but so far dubiously achievable concept for opioid ligands. And doing so at a higher intrinsic activity than buprenorphine can offer. And if it all works as very deliberately intended, that could make for a very clinically-useful opioid analgesic that potently attenuates nociception with an improved safety and side effects profile that includes a delayed or limited development of tolerance. Ok.

So how does any of that plus all the stuff I don't understand about it translate into... SR-17018 being a superior tool in facilitating opioid cessation? In practice or theory?

I'm mostly only getting the sparse lab data and some brief anecdotal takes as I've looked around for info over the past months, and I have this whole thing where probably hell will freeze over before I ever end up on Reddit so I'm at a bit of a loss here presently.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is, what you're saying doesn't make sense, unless it happens to be that it is amongst the abundance of what we don't know about SR-17018 wherein lies its most miraculous effects that just work out in vivo in humans.

Also, I don't know if sensational Internet research chemical is aligned with the direction OP is either accustomed to nor attempting to go now.

But mostly just that I don't really know much of anything, and haven't the personal experience. So like with all the drugs, while I can't second your recommendation to anyone, I'd probably try the stuff myself given certain circumstances. For science.

Look and I mean this with all due respect, if you want the actions of pharmacology or an explanation of how it's mechanisms work I suggest reading up on credible case study website or all the regurgitated material on this site. Or read about the mice and primate studies yourself. It was originally designed as a pain killer or substitute pain management medicine. They observed and learned of its capabilities for tolerance resetting during the studies and never tested it for any other "maintenance" profile because that's not the scope of the application. There's a thread regarding SR 17018 and I and a couple other people go back-and-forth talking about how this g-protein based ligand does not activate signaling from the B-arrestin pathway. That alone tells you that there's no withdrawals and that mitigates all the negative effects of typical opioids. Which of course this is one is not.

Now, if you wanna know how it feels from a personal standpoint and/or anecdotal evidence of mine- I can help you with that. But I won't sit here and argue whether it works or not. I'm telling you it does. It's surprisingly potent as far as analgesic properties go, and it's subsided 80 mg methadone daily habit at the tune of 300 mg divided into 4 doses. Over the course of the next two weeks I dropped and tapered 10-15% every other day and experience zero withdrawals whatsoever. Once I got down to 25 mg daily I stopped.

The first week of abstinence was not bad at all. At the very worst, I had very sore muscles and a little trouble not falling asleep, but staying that way. I'm always a light sleeper though. Keeping my mind busy with exercise yardwork and fatherly duties kept my mind occupied. I fasted for three days with water only to flush colon, then began a regiment of supplements of magnesium, various vitamin B, L-tyro, Vit D, and a healthy clean diet high in protein. Cut out as much processed food as possibly could, including sodas and juices, and only drink milk and water. I did on occasion use amphetamine when I felt fatigued, and absolutely had to get up off my ass mostly go to work. The cravings were of course there, but not intense as I thought they would be. All in all it's an emotional roller coaster more than anything because all your senses come back and you can begin to smell taste and feel several things as if they were new. A woman's touch is one of them. I found myself crying while watching stupid television shows for no reason. And remembering people from 15 to 20 years ago that I had done wrong and felt horrible for it. My memory rebounded quite a bit.

All in all, it was the easiest opiate detox I've ever done. It blows bupe out of the water into smithereens. Methadone too. The cost of it is nothing next to what OP is probably paying for morphine and Hydro. It's incredibly safe, has no side effects and by itself does not really do that much if you have a tolerance.. My tolerance was in fact reset as I tried it a few weeks later. I took 20 mg of methadone, puked several times and slept for a whole day and a half. After that, I just completely abstained for the next few months. When I tried it number four for the first time in months 30 mg damn near had me overdosing. I was officially a lightweight again and still am. I have a gram of H now and it will last me two weeks, maybe even longer if I'm doing speed balls. I can dose 30 now and be good for almost 12 hours.

This stuff is a godsend for opiate addicts. It is lightyears faster to taper from than standard opiates bc of the tolerance reducing ability. Thats the mechanism that is the "X factor" and they don't know exactly how it works. It was basically just a discovery made during its animal trials, but because of that it creates the easiest access to coming off of opiates I've ever done a 20 years. In fact, it's the only time I was successfully able to abstain from opiates for any significant amount of time. Believe what you want, but all the evidence is just gonna support what I just said. It's not a coincidence that hundreds if not thousands of people have a lot of success.

The hype is justified because it works. OP can do whatever, obviously. I'm not a reckless individual and would not even suggest something like a research chemical to anyone if it didn't work. All pharmaceuticals began as a research chemical, like bupe. The reason it's not glorified and hasn't went mainstream is because there's no money to be made in it. There's no money in cures only treatments.

EDITED

 

[ind33d]

.

Believe what you want, but all the evidence is just gonna support what I just said. It's not a coincidence that hundreds and thousands of people have a lot of successes in the hype is what it is because it works.

Who is arguing? 1. I don't believe anything yet, in part because 2. there is in fact almost no evidence/data. And what there is, I've read it. Except Reddit, apparently. Yes pun.

But the anecdotal experience of yours is helpful. It sounds like your experience involved a lot more than just making a seamless swap to SR-17018 to nothing, though, and otherwise sounds pretty much like a normal taper with a exotic opioid. Does it make for a softer landing than straight dropping off of methadone? Sounds like it. For that, I'm glad for you. Never touched it for fear of ever having to stop.

You seem to be somewhat missing where I'm coming from. The issue is not whether taking SR-17018 played out well for you or anyone else, but whether it is a best course of action for the OP. Of course, we are here to share personal experiences and offer recommendations. I'm not convinced it is, so I was hoping you could provide some insight.

I mention above my successes with a sort of staggered atypical taper with an emphatic YMMV notice, which is incontrovertibly a less risky of a notion than ordering some novel wildcard bullshit off the Internet in hopes of shortcutting on a major life effort because Reddit said so. I offer it more as a hypothetical option for consideration and not a prescription. But I also repeat now: whatever works to get to one's desired goal.

I'm not denying your experience or the benefit of sharing it. For I too was once abducted by aliens. But all things considered, I'd still have to vote against your motion in this instance, for now at least.

P.S. I'd reread that literal handful of wildly speculative and inconclusive extant rodent studies and single primate study you resolutely acclaim and note a lack of consensus on many crucial points amongst them (also the lack of human data). For example, even whether the starting point of the hypothesis of G-protein/β-arrestin bias is meaningful, achievable, or even real. There is a lot more to a given opioid than that putative quality. Which, putative or not, actually is not causal to withdrawal - tolerance is what results in withdrawal, and tolerance occurs due to complex systemic receptor and downstream changes.

Ultimately, rather than that SR-17018 seems to have helped you, I'd love to know precisely why. You... didn't happen to collect any data, did you?

 

[DrChivago]

Who is arguing? 1. I don't believe anything yet, in part because 2. there is in fact almost no evidence/data. And what there is, I've read it. Except Reddit, apparently. Yes pun.

But the anecdotal experience of yours is helpful. It sounds like your experience involved a lot more than just making a seamless swap to SR-17018 to nothing, though, and otherwise sounds pretty much like a normal taper with a exotic opioid. Does it make for a softer landing than straight dropping off of methadone? Sounds like it. For that, I'm glad for you. Never touched it for fear of ever having to stop.

You seem to be somewhat missing where I'm coming from. The issue is not whether taking SR-17018 played out well for you or anyone else, but whether it is a best course of action for the OP. Of course, we are here to share personal experiences and offer recommendations. I'm not convinced it is, so I was hoping you could provide some insight.

I mention above my successes with a sort of staggered atypical taper with an emphatic YMMV notice, which is incontrovertibly a less risky of a notion than ordering some novel wildcard bullshit off the Internet in hopes of shortcutting on a major life effort because Reddit said so. I offer it more as a hypothetical option for consideration and not a prescription. But I also repeat now: whatever works to get to one's desired goal.

I'm not denying your experience or the benefit of sharing it. For I too was once abducted by aliens. But all things considered, I'd still have to vote against your motion in this instance, for now at least.

P.S. I'd reread that literal handful of wildly speculative and inconclusive extant rodent studies and single primate study you resolutely acclaim and note a lack of consensus on many crucial points amongst them (also the lack of human data). For example, even whether the starting point of the hypothesis of G-protein/β-arrestin bias is meaningful, achievable, or even real. There is a lot more to a given opioid than that putative quality. Which, putative or not, actually is not causal to withdrawal - tolerance is what results in withdrawal, and tolerance occurs due to complex systemic receptor and downstream changes.

Ultimately, rather than that SR-17018 seems to have helped you, I'd love to know precisely why. You... didn't happen to collect any data, did you?

I don't see how marginalizing my experience with patronization is helping OP either. So forgive me if I am taking your dismissive tone as rather abrasive. Strange that you don't see your blatant distrust of hundreds of anecdotal experiences (readily available across multiple platforms and not just Reddit) indicative of an argument against its efficacy. Seems like it to me, but then again I've never been probed by extraterrestrials so I must not be as important or qualified to draw that conclusion..

Silly rabbit... I did collect data as a matter of fact. Journaling daily with records of doses and COWS scores. Im sure you would just discredit my findings anyway and we would be at a standstill so that won't really sway your concreted position. Tricks on both of us though, as I took this task on with objectivity and disbelief myself to be pleasantly shocked at how painless it actually was.

Why did it help? Sure, let's disregard decades of biased agonist research and engineering that specifically was designed to avoid b-arrestin pathway signaling. We will expand your explanation. You said it yourself, withdrawal is primarily dictated by the tolerance developed over time(your complex systemic variances). Fair enough. SR repairs the receptors while stimulating them simultaneously, allowing a much quicker taper time. A taper which, in terms of standardized opiates, would normally create a myriad of unpleasant acute symptoms if it were shortened. Again, folks much smarter than myself cant fully explain the mechanism, so I wont pretend I can. Scoff at it all you want, but NO ONE really knows exactly how withdrawal manifests.

The stuff just works. Very quick and painlessly. I been thru plenty of shitshows just as you have. OP's literal title of the post is "help with withdrawal" What would be more helpful than avoiding it all together? Seems appropriate to me, but without some suffering we cannot properly gauge the degree to which we should abstain. I think many are underestimating his dependency in my opinion however. 70mg of Hydro and 30mg of MS is still gonna be smack in the balls to stop.

I had to learn the hard way that the secret to doing opioids is NEVER take more than the initial dose you needed. If it's not floating yer boat, stop and allow tolerance repairs naturally. It has taken me multiple OD's, precipitated wd's and homelessness to develop the fortitude to adhere to that design.

PS. I believe the brand of MS Contin you were referring to is ABG. I had a deep love affair with those years ago too. I was taught how to base and acetylate them with acetic anhydride and glacial acetic acid both. I preferred the GAA

 

[Deleted member 580309]

This is the way. Its almost so easy its stupid to do it any other way

I truly don't believe it. It really is magic. Im stocking up while I can no matter what and I still have a few gs