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Help with my (drinking problem) liver...

InstantNoodles

InstantNoodles

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
133
I'm back again.
Mods, if this in the wrong forum can you please move.
It's been nearly a year since I've been here but I've fucked up.

Over the past year I curbed codeine intake, changed my diet for the better but still drank a bit.
Over time due to back pain I started take APAP/codeine (panadeine extra) within the recommend dosages, then I started CWE some at the weekend for a buzz but all this time I was drinking alot of alcohol.<---- this is where I fucked up.
After comming back on BL recently I found out how bad mixing APAP and alcohol was.
Long story short, I got a blood work done where the results for my liver wern't to good.
My GGT is 232 should be (<52) and ferritin is 585 should be (20-300)
Every other test like ALT, AST, Bilirubin etc came back normal.
Since the test results I have Stoped drinking alcohol, stoped any drugs, polished up my diet by eating lean meats and raw fruit and vegs and lots of water. I've started chewing milk thistle tablets like smarties.

So the question is how bad are the GGT & Ferritin readings and is there any supplements or anything really that I can do to get these numbers back down.

Thanks.
 
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I have to admit I'm not familiar with some of the aspects of your problems, but I feel I can safely assume there are not any miracle treatments that are going to fix the damage you've done. :\

Generally the best way to recover from extended drug use (and abuse) is to first of all stop using - which you have, congratulations.

The second thing I would suggest is eating well, exercising and trying to live a 'cleaner' existence. Which again, you seem to have achieved.

Your unhealthy levels will not change immediately I'm sure, but if you give it time the body may just recover to something similar to it's pre-drug abuse state. If you're lucky. :)

I'm going to leave this here and monitor the responses - if you are not getting the input you need I will move to Other Drugs for some more opinions. :)
 
If you give your liver time to heal those values should drop back down on their own (though I'm not familiar with GGT, only GLDH. From a brief look GGT is involved with biotransformation in hepatocytes). If you stick to your changed diet/no alcohol you are doing all you can. Stick to recommended amounts of milk thistle..it won't really help much if you over do it. Just keep following your docs instructions, and maybe go back in a few months if you want some peace of mind.

Good news is that your ALT/AST levels are normal. ALT is in the cytosol of hepatocytes, so high blood levels indicate damage (cell membrane alone is lysed). When AST levels in the blood are higher than normal this indicates fairly significant damage as AST is only present in the mitochondria of the liver, meaning you have to lyse both cellular and mitochondrial membranes.
 
Thanks for the replies,
Child of the Beat, it was thanks to this site a year ago where I changed my eating habbits all I've done this time is cut out red meat.
Shimmer.Fade, thanks for the info. I've been googling GGT and stuff for the last couple of days and finding out what raises it, I'm going to give it a couple of weeks and go back to the docs for another blood test since what I found is some things I had within 24 hrs of the test could falsely raise the GGT Count like Ranitidine and alcohol.
 
I've also run into some pretty bad liver troubles because of alcohol and pill abuse, and I'm hoping to see some progress now that I'm done drinking/using and eating right. All you can do is take good care of yourself, do your best to keep healthy, and be patient. The fact that most of those levels are coming back normal is obviously a good sign. Just keep it up, stay clean, and hope for the best. When I asked a doctor if there's anything extra I can do (supplements, etc) to optimize progress and recovery, he said that I just need to stay healthy and not drink or take anything with acetaminophen. Other than that, I'm eating plenty of vegetables and fruit, drinking a lot of water, and taking vitamins. I haven't had a follow-up with a doctor ever since I left the hospital, so I can't be sure how far I've come, but the jaundice seems to be slowly fading and I feel a lot better than I did when I was a drunk.

Good luck, InstantNoodles, and keep us updated!
 
Thanks for the support blahman also it's great to see that you've been able to turn your self around from such a bad situation. Keep it up :).
I will keep you all updated as things happen.
 
Just an update, I tried changing my diet and stop drinking. I got to day 7 and I could not function. I was yelling at the kids and missus, could not get motivated, had no energy, felt like absalute shit. So I decided to have a beer. I had three in total and I was running around doing jobs around the house like I usally do.
So now I only take take painkillers in the morning when my back is sore and 3 beers (4.2 std drinks) every second night.
I also have a booking for a ultrasound in 3 days so I'll find out more then.

Child of the Beat- if you think this post has had enough here you can move it if you wish. I was thinking OD or TDS. Thanks :)
 
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It is good if you have made steps in a positive direction, but don't stop moving in that direction. Maybe try drinking only every 3rd or 4th day. Then start trying to drop from 3 to 2 beers. You already messed up your liver a bit, you should not drink like a normal healthy young person. Also, not being able to be normal without alcohol is not really a good sign.

Maybe after your liver has had more time to heal it would be ok to start drinking more. This effects of what you are doing are really hard, if not impossible, to predict. It could range all the way from not being a problem at all to messing up your liver even more. Every person is individual, and copes with stress on the body in different ways. You should most definitely keep an eye on those enzyme levels, though by the time they become pathological damage has been done. At least you would know you REALLY need to stop doing what you're doing.
 
It's concerning to me that you're drinking again, considering the state of your liver. :\

The healthy eating would have been doing you good, but I can't imagine seven days being indicative of any effects long term. If you're serious about rehabilitation I think you have to seek some serious assistance. I am sure a counsellor trained in this area would help you immensely.
You need to sort out a tapering program and start seriously looking after your body. Just because you felt more 'normal' after drinking those beers it doesn't mean the problem has gone away.

InstantNoodles said:
Child of the Beat- if you think this post has had enough here you can move it if you wish. I was thinking OD or TDS. Thanks :)
Click to expand...
It's up to you, mate. Say the word and I'll shift it over to the forum of your choice. :)
 
Child of the beat, trust me I did not want to start again but after feeling the way i did and treating my family the way I was I had to do something. I was dissapointed when I asked my doctor (soon to be ex-doctor) for help she gave me none.
I'm not drinking anywhere near the amount I was but I do have plain to taper. I've gone from 2+ slabs of Guinness a week to 6-12 beers a week sofar.

Itsok, I'm taking milk (seed) thistle. I have found one which works well for me, 28,000mg (336mg silybin) I take 4 a day.
Also ALA - 300gm x3
MaxQ10 150mg +L-Carnitine 500mg x1
Mega E 500iu x 2
But I'm not mixing APAP and alcohol like was.
 
I also feel you really need to see a counsellor as soon as possible.

With any liver problems you need to avoid so much - alcohol is the obvious one but also a lot of medication, including codeine and panadol. You also need a better doctor who you have a rapport with, one you can trust who is willing to refer you to some professional help. You have cut down a lot on your alcohol consumption though which is great, so try to continue doing that.

Drinking 8-10 glasses of water a day, eating a super healthy diet with lots of vitamins and minerals and food with health fat (avocado, salmon, nuts and such) can help heal your liver as well. Milk thistle will probably assist but only with being healthy in other ways, vitamins aren't a cure-all.

Cutting down on long term alcohol use is difficult for people psychologically and physically, which is why a lot of people find it hard to do. If you drink a lot and try to cut back without professional help, feeling on edge and anxious is probably fairly normal at first. 7 days is really nothing on the scheme of things, i.e the rest of your life.

Good luck with the ultrasound.
 
InstantNoodles said:
I was dissapointed when I asked my doctor (soon to be ex-doctor) for help she gave me none.
Click to expand...
This happens all too regularly. I've heard of people seeing several Doctors before finding one willing to help them in a serious and productive way. :\

What you really need is a referral to a drug and alcohol counsellor. They should be able to give you tools and pactical advise that will help you fight your addiction.
It sounds like you're improving things on your own by lessening the quantities you're drinking, but I would hate to see you relapse.

I strongly recommend searching for a reputable doctor in your area who has a proven track record when dealing with drinking problems.

I'm going to move this to The Dark Side now as I think we're moving into the realm of support, now. Good luck with everything. <3
 
InstantNoodles said:
Child of the beat, trust me I did not want to start again but after feeling the way i did and treating my family the way I was I had to do something. I was dissapointed when I asked my doctor (soon to be ex-doctor) for help she gave me none.
I'm not drinking anywhere near the amount I was but I do have plain to taper. I've gone from 2+ slabs of Guinness a week to 6-12 beers a week sofar.

Itsok, I'm taking milk (seed) thistle. I have found one which works well for me, 28,000mg (336mg silybin) I take 4 a day.
Also ALA - 300gm x3
MaxQ10 150mg +L-Carnitine 500mg x1
Mega E 500iu x 2
But I'm not mixing APAP and alcohol like was.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't take more than 500 IU of Vit E per day, despite what you read on the internet.
 
Do you have any pain in the abdomen?
Pain where your liver may very well be, were you to tear off your flesh and go looking for it?
Just, that can be very distressing...
It's easier when drinking equates to pain.
Sharp, stabbing pain is what I'm talking about, but from time to time, along with dull, throbbing pain.
Alcohol is a dangerous solvent, regardless of how you try to get around the problem with self-medication.
And medicating yourself according to the internet is like medicating yourself according to hearsay.
Please be very careful with your liver.
Fortunately, it's a very resilient organ and a fascinating one; if you come across a spare, send me a message... please. <3
 
Missykins, I've done the dosage on my own, not by any dosage on the Internet. Thanks for that I'll cut down to one a day.

Kerrigan, I have not had any of those feelings also as I said above I have not medicated myself to any dosage recommended on the internet, I have done all this on my own.

Going by the Internet you'll end up having a soldering iron up your arse while eating rat poison.
 
Well I'm sitting in the waiting room after the ultra sound.
The bloke said he couldn't say to much that it's up to my GP but I've got nothing to worry about.
When i find out more I will re-post.
 
From your lingo it sounds as though you know more about the liver than I do, but I'll post this anyway.

The liver is the body's only regenerative organ. From what I understand, cirrhosis, the deadly liver disease, occurs when you damage your liver repeatedly beyond its ability to regenerate. For some reason this causes excess tissue in a process called fibrosis. This excess tissue then becomes regenerative itself, which is obviously a problem.


Basically all I know is that it takes a lot of drinking, a massive amount of drinking over a long period of time to develop cirrhosis. However if you add APAP into the mix, things get a lot more complicated and it seems that the process can happen much quicker. How much quicker, I do not know.

However, I do know that if you have some problem with your liver than it is crazy for you to keep ingesting alcohol and tylenol in any quantity. Cirrhosis is incurable, without transplant, and it is a painful course toward a certain death. If these are prescribed pain pills, get alternatives without tylenol. If they are not, either illegally buy alternatives without tylenol or better yet, just stop taking them altogether. Same with alcohol. It might be difficult but it sure beats a slow, terrible and untreatable death.

If the brain act inappropriately for a long enough time, the other organs will eventually declare mutiny.

Which involves killing the brain. And you unfortunately.
 
I understand your concern for your liver. I was diagnosed with Stage 1 Hepatitis C about 3 years ago and they have done ultrasounds and have told me I already have some liver damage. So what do? I continue to drink almost everyday and refuse to go see my liver doctor. I haven't seen a GI doctor in almost a year. I'm afraid of what they will tell me. I do not recommend doing this. I give you a lot of credit for trying to clean up your act and heal your liver. I know how hard it is to quit a substance. I quit heroin over a year ago and I still struggle with cravings and I deal with them by drinking. If you can't stop drinking completely I would recommend just cutting back a significant amount. Keep up with the Milk Thistle because it does help. I was taking it for awhile and then I stopped which is stupid. Keep us updated and good luck!
 
Well I finally went back To the docs for my ultrasound results, and to my surprise everything was normal. I would have put money on there being something knowing my full history of drinking and taking drugs.

Batmanplaybaseball : I have done a lot of research trying to find out what the raised GGT levels mean. Sofar all I could find is that raised GGT levels mean something is damaging the liver but does not specify what. Could be alcohol or drugs or something else.

Miss Hollywood : I'm sorry to hear about your liver and thank you for the words of wisdom. I hope you find the strength and courage to go see your GI doc again

Sorry if I seem brief, I have a massive headach ATM. But I wanted to let everyone who was following that I havn't abandoned the post it just took me a while to get back to the docs.
 
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