Heroin Help, question about heroin withdrawal and kratom :(

[get high]

Hello everyone. So I've been using heroin for 10 months straight and I've been 8 days clean thanks to kratom. I have a problem though. Right when I stopped taking kratom I went through really bad withdrawals. So I was wondering does kratom post pone your withdrawals or can I keep taking kratom until all my withdrawals are over? I had a huge panic attack after I stopped taking the kratom my bones ached I had SEVERE depression my anxiety went through the roof and i had no energy, etc etc all the symptoms of horrible heroin withdrawals. It was hell. The first 4 days were the worst though. I was able to go without kratom for a day or two but it was too overwhelming so I started taking kratom again. I just want to be clean, but it seems like the process is taking forever. I remember I quit for 2 weeks before then I relasped due to having no energy and having horrible depression. I really want to be clean this is so hard.

I know for a fact I couldn't of been "clean" from heroin if it wasnt for Kratom. Kratom has helped my withdrawal symptoms immensely. I'm Just wondering how long will I have to take kratom to get rid of withdrawals or am I just postponing my withdrawals. Anyone have experience quitting heroin with kratom? Any information helps. Has anyone here been able to quit opiates with kratom and if so how did it go? I'm so scared I'm just postponing my withdrawal symptons by taking kratom, and I thought I got so far I still had to go through hell. This is so tough. Any information helps thanks!

 

[Zerwas]

Well Kratom is an opioid so it causes withdrawals by itself. Basically you were not "clean" because you were taking Kratom. Of course that is a lot better than Heroin but you have to pay the piper.
The withdrawal from Kratom is much less harsher than a Heroin WD but you will still experience symptoms.
You can't just take Kratom for the week in which you would withdraw from H and after stopping Kratom everything is fine. Unfortunately it does not work like that

How much Kratom did you take per day?

 

[get high]

Well I lost count im taking 6 to 7 grams every 5 to 6 hours. But I've been without kratom for 12 to 48 hours a few times. So you say kratom
Causes withdrawals? But I've only been on it for a week? I was on heroin for 10 months. So basically kratom is prolonging my withdrawals? Are you sure do you have experience in this? It seems like kratom wouldn't cause withdrawals if you were only on it for a week or two? Or is that untrue. Ugh this is horrible news

 

[sekio]

If you're using that much kratom daily, then yeah you can fully expect withdrawals the same as any opioid. Kratom and the alkaloids it contains (mitragynine, etc) activate the opioid receptors the same way other drugs do.

That's part of why it works so well for opioid withdrawals, it's basically a substitution therapy you can do at home.

The withdrawals are dose-related though, for most people if you keep consumption under about 10 grams a day you can detox fairly rapidly and with little misery. If you're taking an ounce or more per day that's quite a lot actually.

There are several threads on this board where people have used kratom to detox off opioids and also a few where recreational users of kratom have had it bite them in their ass (with daily heavy usage). Me personally, I took it up to about 12-14 g a day and didn't have an issue kicking it, but I never used it to sub for heroin though!

 

[get high]

So you're saying withdrawal from kratom would be just like heroin because it's an opioid? How long did you take kratom and didn't get withdrawals? I take 12 to 16 grams a day, but I've been 12 to 48 hours without sometimes. I guess you truly can't answer my question because you've never quit opiates with kratom :/

 

[sekio]

Withdrawal from kratom is not the exact same as withdrawing from heroin. Kratom actually has compounds that mess with the release of norepinephrine/adrenaline (can't remember if they cause release or block release). I think even mitragynine does that, it's inseperable from the opioid effects of kratom and is part of why it has a unique stimulating/sedative effect. The reason that kratom eases opioid w/d so well, and that it is a painkiller, and its utility as an anti diarreheal are all due to tis activity as an opiod though.

I have used kratom, and used opioids, but I've never used one to come off of the other though. When I was using kratom I took around 8-12g a day, but I was not taking it every single day, maybe one day on it per every 3-5 days? I never noticed any trouble, well, aside from tossing and washing huge amounts of nasty tasting plant material...

The best course of action to take is to taper your dose of kratom down over a month or two's time. Because kratom is less "abusable" it is an easier compd to taper than some other opioids. If you can reduce your dose to like, 4-6g a day you should be able to drop it with not much trouble. But take your time getting there, don't rush.

 

[Cliffy78]

Everything seiko said is correct. I used kratom when I would run outta oxy between scripts so I wouldn't have to go through wd.
I'm surprised the kratom is holding u since u use dope. I switched to dope from oxy and I gotta say that I don't think the kratom would do much unless I took a quarter pound a day lol. How much dope were u using and how did u use(I.e nasal, Iv etc.)? Just curious for future reference. But yeah seiko is spot on and u can definitely trust his advice...

 

[Nati]

I used kratom in the same manner. I was an addict for 3 years, and then using kratom to detox. I began taking the kratom immediately after stopping use though. I never really let my brain go sick for a while, so it can rebuild its endorphin production. I was uncomfortable for the first week but I'm stable now. 2 months later, I'm now taking 15g a day. I feel the same symptoms you do when I forget to dose. It's much easier to deal with than full blown heroin withdrawal, imo.

 

[Zerwas]

It seems like kratom wouldn't cause withdrawals if you were only on it for a week or two? Or is that untrue.

It is untrue especially if you have been taking and been addicted to opioids before. You are just holding yourself with another opioid than Heroin that causes less strong withdrawals.
Think of it as a substitute like Subutex but much weaker. You can't just eliminate the WD-symptoms by taking Codeine for a week after Heroin too, unfortunately.

I quit 1mg of Buprenorphine a day with Kratom. And after about one week of Kratom use I quit and got very sick for one week including puking, not being able to eat, the whole shabang.
But I did not taper down back then. Neither the Subs nor the Kratom which was a big mistake.
So I suggest lowering your dose per 1g every day until you are on ~3g a dose, then maybe take one dose less and so on.
There was athread about this lately which could be useful for you. I'm gonna search it later.

Good luck dude, don't let that bring you down! Not taking H anymore is an accomplishment by itself

 

[get high]

Everything seiko said is correct. I used kratom when I would run outta oxy between scripts so I wouldn't have to go through wd.
I'm surprised the kratom is holding u since u use dope. I switched to dope from oxy and I gotta say that I don't think the kratom would do much unless I took a quarter pound a day lol. How much dope were u using and how did u use(I.e nasal, Iv etc.)? Just curious for future reference. But yeah seiko is spot on and u can definitely trust his advice...

I'm not exactly sure how much I used a day I lost track. I used for 9 to 11 months straight every single day. I smoked it, and I smoked a lot. I'd smoke at least every half hour or so im
Not sure. I have no idea how much I was using but my habit got pretty bad. I remember one time I was in full blown withdrawal and I was relying on this person to bring dope, and when I got it I was literally crying I was so happy because I was in so much pain. It was ridiculous. I was breaking down mentally the withdrawals were so bad. It was scary. I didn't realize how far I got into my addiction and how much I relied on it. After that I knew I always had to have a back up plan if I couldn't get any to help with withdrawals. I even lost sense in time. I thought id been smoking dope for 5 to 6 months but it turns out it was 9 to 11 months. Anyway I'm surprised how much kratom has helped me too, but Im still struggling badly if I don't take any kratom and it's been over 10 days since. I wish I could just avoid withdrawals completely with kratom or another substance

 

[razordesignz]

How bout using low doses of Kratom just enough to endure the h withdraw...then you taper off of kratom. Instead of aiming on close to the same level of high from h. Then you will be stuck with a even more addicted system and withdraws are def. Not avoidable.

 

[Zerwas]

I wish I could just avoid withdrawals completely with kratom or another substance

Thats what everyone wishes but it just does not work that way. You can lower the intensity by tapering as much as you can and use Meds like Gabapentin/Lyrica, Loperamide, Benzos, Clonidine etc. during the acute WD.
After that the real struggle to stay abstinent starts, PAWS (post-acute withdrawal syndrome) is a bitch too and a therapy how to cope with a life without opis can help a lot as well as doing sports to get natural endorphins.
I wish you the best. Check out the threads about Opiate WD. I haven't found the one I mentioned before.

 

[OntarioGuy]

To the OP:

The thing is, u aren't really physically dependent on the heroin ( you are) but what I mean is, you are OPIOID dependent. meaning you are technically addicted to heroin, morphine, hydromorphone, oxycodone, Kratom....you get the idea. so yes even using kratom for one day you are "addicted" because you were already addicted to it to start with.

So there is no way to cheat the withdrawal. your best bet like someone else said is use the kratom to endure the worst of the Diacetylmorphine (heroin) withdrawal, effectively switching habits to the less potent mitragynine ( one of the main actives of kratom) then taper from that.

 

[sekio]

Unfortunately there's no magic pill that will make your opioid withdrawal go away - you have a long tough journey in front of you.

 

[Crashing]

Kratom is to be treated as an opioid with similar strength to hydrocodone or oxycodone. I think if you've gotta take something, kratom is the best choice, but withdrawals from it are just as much a concern.

Kratom is fantastic in the sense that it can help get off of the more powerful, illegal and prescription opioids. It is a much cheaper, safer, and more manageable routine, but it wont lessen the dependency.

 

[get high]

How long have you been taking kratom for? I'm reaching week 3 and I still get withdrawals if I quit. Anyway thanks for the feedback. I'm at 5 to 6 grams twice a day. I wish I started tapering already.

 

[Zerwas]

You will always get withdrawals when you quit because, like OntarioGuy explaine, you are opioid dependent. But you won't experience the short and intense Heroin WD which is a small step forward.