Help Out With A Dry Socket

[oldabba]

I got here after chasing around trying to find some way to get drugs to deal with the pain from a 'dry socket' - what you sometimes get after a tooth extraction.

I've been taking Panadeine Forte with Ibuprofen in between. Drop another pill every two hours. Panadeine, then Ibu, then Panadeine....

The pain wakes me up during the night right on schedule or a bit early.

They won't sell you or even prescribe you anything stronger, will they? The last doctor said 'I'll believe you' in a tone that made it obvious he didn't. The dentist said 'there's a bit of infection but the body will fix it...'.

Two weeks now since the extraction. A bit of bone came out of the socket the other day, about 3mm round.

I reckon there's probably more bone working its way out and that's why it's not getting better.

Night and day pain for two weeks.

Now I've been googling and reading and I don't want to continue that regimen any more. It seems the dangers of Ibuprofen and Panadol are too great. Kinda frightening what you read about them.

So I reckon forget the medics and a bit of this CWE thing on whatever codeine containing pills I can get. Take straight codeine until it's all over.

But the advice about CWE is a little bit confusing. Seems some the additives or joint medicines in some tabs with the codeine are not too good because they'll get into solution with the codeine, too....

Technical stuff like that.

So I thought I'd join the forum and ask for advice and that way perhaps get the latest information and best advice.

What can I do? What should I do?

p.s. And it's true.. this is no con... I'm not after chasing a codeine high or any kind of drug habit. Just want to kill the pain (sissy). So if there's a plain and simple pain killer I don't know about then tell me... that'd do fine.

 

[bit_pattern]

Go back to your dentist, they should be able to prescribe you tramadol, I've been offered it before after an extraction

 

[poledriver]

Yeah I' imagine if you think there is bone still working it's way out and you are still in alot of pain you should try and head back asap.

 

[Foreigner]

I'd mention it to your dentist first.

If you'd like alternative remedies, swishing with salt water, then applying clove oil and xylitol will keep your mouth moist overnight. Make sure your toothpaste doesn't have alcohol in it because it'll dry out your mouth, same with most mouth washes. Salt water is the shit for this kind of thing. You can even dab your toothbrush in xylitol and just brush with that.

 

[teological]

Hey oldabba, this is pure generic responses from those in the medical field. "Don't worry, the pain is the bodies way of healing" or "you don't need that much pain relieve (AKA we will not give you more drugs no matter what you drug seeking junky)". I know you are not a junky, but these doctors always presume you are and I tell you why; the mistake you have committed here is asking for more "medication". This brings up firewalls and leads you nowhere.

What to do: Instead of asking for more medication outright, tell them that your pain is unbearable. Explain your regiment and how you wake up at a certain time with more pain. Try to get your points across in a manner that does not contain the red words of MORE, MEDICINE and CODEINE. lol. Just let them know exactly how you feel, right it down on paper in front of them if you feel it will get your point more accurately across (your dosing regiment)...then give them the room to decide what to do. It will feed them the power they need to feel like they are in control (AKA power trip/ego), then they will try and change/fix your problems through different/more medication.

Lead them on, but do not ask for more or different meds. Let them do that, and they will, it is their job.

CWE. Get 5 pills containing APAP and Codeine. 2mls of water per pill into a glass. Put pills into the glass cup with water. Let them dissolve and stir to help them along. Place the cup into the fridge for about 30 -45 minutes. Go out and buy coffee filters. Get another glass cup and wet the coffee filters. Mold the wet coffee filter over the empty glass, then pour the solution into the filter. The remaining clear liquid that has drained into the cup is basically pure codeine. Drink.

With pain control, I have found it is better to have one big dose rather than small doses throughout the day. So instead of taking 2 pills every few hours, just add up how many you take per day, use those pills in the CWE, wait until pain is unmanageable, and drink. You should be fine for way more than a few hours, especially if you use another NSAID in combination with the solution (make sure you stick to the NSAID instructions and also that the original CWE PILLS were NOT also NSAID pills. If they were NSAID pills used in the CWE, then use APAP in combination at the doses instructed, not above).

Good luck and let us know what happened with the meds.

 

[oldabba]

Thanks guys. Especially teological, I can relate to that way of looking at things, I kinda see the situation like that, too...

I'm not up on the terminology, just learning it now. The NSAID and APAP thing. That's Panadol as against Ibuprofen, isn't it?

That's what the last doctor had me doing -alternate the two. He gave me Panadol Forte on prescription and told me to get Ibuprofen and take it between Panadol doses as required.

It worries me a tad as I worry about the liver and kidney damage because I fancy I've already got some kind of kidney problem.

And because they say only 6 Ibus in 24 hours where I need the eight, really, to go with the eight Panadols.

What you say about a big hit rings a bell. I always take only one at a time - so's I'll be able to spread the allowed eight across 24 hours. Even when starting out on a course I've never been in the habit of starting with two.

But once or twice recently I've taken two and I've fancied it has set me up for a much longer period of okay.

Main thing is to get some sleep. Pain during the day I can hassle around doing things. But in the night you just wake up hurting with nothing to do but wear it... check the time... if it's been two hours then go have the next pill, ibu or panadol, whatever, then lay down still sore and hope to sleep...

I wash the mouth with Listerine, that seems to help. I do the clove oil thing and that helps but I'm unsure about the danger of burning the mouth membranes that I've read about. Don't want to make things worse.

It's all a bit of a crock and a surprise. To find we're still at such a low level of pain management. We've made tremendous strides medically but not hereabouts it seems.

Panadol and NSAIDs and they're both liable to do you in.

Codeine itself seems the best thing. Why won't they let you have that? Frightened you'll get addicted? Is that all? Is that their whole reason?

What else is there? Just looked up this Tramadol. Frightening. Seems too dangerous for situations like mine - i.e. not worth the risk.

I'll go to the doc or the dentist tomorrow. Not sure which. Not sure why considering the above, what can they/will they do for me?

If it doesn't start getting better by itself I think doing this CWE in the interest of getting a higher does of codeine into me without the mandatory higher dose of panadol or ibuprofen that goes along with their prescription drugs is the way to go.

But didn't I read somewhere that you can't do CWE on ibuprofen? That panadol+ibu (panafen or something they call it) is no good for CWE because of this?

I went looking for more panadene today but missed out - chemists all closed.

Only reason to see the doc would be to get script for panadene forte. Only benefit in that is the extra codeine I think, not the extra panadol. And extra panadol seems dangerous to me anyway after what I've read in the last two days.

Can't even help yourself out by getting drunk... more danger to the liver it seems....

I think just that double dose would be good. Like two 500mg panadene forte.

Surprised about the water amount for the CWE. So little? Does it matter? If you're going to drink it all? What's the point of it being so little?

A 3mm diameter bit of bone came out the other day. A tiny grain came out today. Perhaps another bit will come out in the night tonight and that'll be the end of it....

Thanks again guys for the help...

 

[heist]

mate I lost a tooth few years back and I tried every drug known to man...nothing could kill that pain unfortunately. As gross as it is, the only thing that helped me was drinking a lot of water and iced tea and spitting regularly.

8 Panadol? I ate a whole card of them and it still did nothing.

I ended up taking sleeping tablets which did fuck all, and sooking in bed until it was over. I hope you feel better soon.

 

[One Thousand Words]

For a dry socket you have lost the clot and have exposed bone. Forget the Dr, go back to the dentist and have it washed out and dressed with alvogel. Pain will go in about 5 hrs.

Treat the problem not mask the pain.

 

[oldabba]

Well it all went well but I'm still in a fix. Worst night ever last night. Trouble is I've left the Panadol out.

That was the whole idea. To leave the Panadol and Ibuprofen out because they're so nasty.

But now I find there's a limit on how much Codeine we should take and I was already at that limit: 240mg a day.

And that's not enough to kill the pain.

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/datasheet/c/CodeinePhosphatetab.pdf


I thought I'd be able to safely double up the codeine doses. But I can't. It seems.

So I'm back to taking a Panadol with the codeine and then an Ibuprofen in between. Just where I was.

Wasn't thinking straight. Read about the dosage constraint and took it in, acted on it, never gave a thought to what it meant... that's how the pain hassle effects my thinking...

I might as well give it up. Go back to the doc. Don't know what he can do. There just isn't anything else, is there..

 

[mindseye888]

Yes, go back to your dentist.

 

[oldabba]

Happy ending: I'm good now. Went to the doctor and got amoxycillin. Second day there was an improvement and it went on from there. I can still feel it but I'm not taking any drugs apart from the amoxy now.

Quite an education the whole experience was for me. Didn't know about this CWE before. Didn't know the max dose for codeine, didn't know its limited pain killing ability - sorry I never properly tried teological's 'one big dose' technique, I'll remember it for the future, if ever - didn't really know about all those bad side effects, possible damages, of paracetamol and ibuprofen, didn't even know guys were getting off on codeine... I never experienced anything remotely like getting off during this little episode. Didn't know how limited the pain killing options were/are....

Thanks all.



p.s.

reading the thread it looks like I ignored the advice and never went back to the dentist. Not true. I went back. Didn't see the same guy, though he was in the room working at another chair. Saw a guy who pressured my gum with is finger, claimed to see a small amount of 'muck' coming out - indicative of infection - and told me my body would heal it .... just go away and handle it....

which is what I tried to do.

I wasn't thinking straight. Should have gone straight back to the doctor for a script for antibiotic as soon as the dentist indicated infection ( he never actually said it ).

I'm a real patsy some times. But not all the time.

 

[opi8]

^ I think that's a problem with a lot of us people who need to speak to professionals. We all love our own voices... No, I mean we don't say to medical professionals what we think all the time because we are just patients, we haven't gone through x years of schooling and then x years of practice. In my case, I am always in a position of fear, from my body's natural fight or flight response, that I just cannot fathom talking about anything - I just want to get out of there. Even if I recite a thousand (more like a million) times in the waiting room what I want to say, what I am there for, everything goes out the window when I am put on the spot. I just cannot do it, I freeze, my brain goes blank and I just can't do it. This is my regular doctor, imagine going to a new one. Which happens... Fuck it, most of the doctors say that I don't need any medical help when a FUCKING PSYCHIATRIST YOU REFERRED ME TO suggested I be on a diazepam daily. Why do doctors second guess professionals, WHO THEY REFERRED YOU TO IN THE FIRST PLACE?

 

[oldabba]

Like your icon. Yep, why so illegal?

One reason is we're all lumped into one 'package' aren't we, one law for all?

Another is we're not seen as individuals with a human right to do with ourselves as we wish - up to and including suicide (unless you volunteer for a soldier) via any kind of lifestyle 'death' you may choose.

Another is the fears of the inexperienced, the 'straights' (if they are still called that) that fall easy prey to hysterical overstatement, exaggeration, distortion and downright lies about the effects and power of free availability of drugs. And so they vote for and allow all kinds of restrictions on personal freedoms as in the case recently of the terrorist hysteria.

Another is the lack of interest on the part of the medical and scientific professions to fight for these freedoms.

Another is the easy game it is for politicians to promote these restrictions and appear to be dynamic do gooders - ride any handy bandwagon into office, no matter how much harm it does.. ban abortions, ban guns, ban drugs, ban freedom....

The answer to all your questions is right there: it's the makeup of our society now, that's the problem.

Yep. I'm thinking of writing letters to my doctor which I'll deliver in person. Pull it out and read it to him when I make a visit. Only way I can be sure of getting my message to him. Off the cuff, off the top of my head, when there before him I just can't get it together. No matter which doctor I see. I'm not good at it and they are good at getting rid of you as soon as they've done the downright minimum to satisfy what you're ostensibly there for...

My last doctor's visit I had to go back later and get a receptionist to try get the promised script from him. As an example.

It's all good, eh?