well thanks but your life story did me no good.. for one.when you shoot that amount of methadone into your body in less then one minute there IS A RUSH.NOT THAT I CONDONE IT IN ANY WAY....And some ppl do get sick from shooting it like a friend of mine was using it to kick an oc habit and she would get sick from it but not everyone has this problum..drugs react different to everybody.. but what was the point of your rant??? really that its bad??? well no shit.. i know this allready...i dont mean to sound or come off like a dick but your life story was all about your view on methadone use when were here to talk about getting off of it and i found no usefull info in you long rant...
Wow way to be friendly... sorry I "offended you" with my life story. that's cool bro, i've been around here a long time but it's people like you that drove away a lot of the original people that loved this website. I was just giving you my background so you don't think I'm so dumb kid quoting what he reads online. I could easily make you a detox chart if that's what you need and with 25 subs if they are 8mg's... It could be pulled off with WAY less. 2mg of subs will hold you better than you think.
My rant was from being stoned and doing a 32mg Dilaudid shot. I get lost in my writing. Sorry that it offended you or pissed you off. Sorry if it didn't even help you. Don't read it maybe? I don't know. It's the way I think sorry. I got major experience on both sides of the fence. Being a junkie, being a methadone MMT patient, working in n MMT clinic, being a RN working in Emergency Medicine, & now studying back in school to be a Dr. My mind flows & when it comes to physiology and pharmacology I go off & say more than I even realize at times. Sorry I get thrown off buy anyone IV'ing there Methadone and thinking that it isn't extremely damaging to use that liquid IV no matter how much you dilute it. Even the clear liquid thats less viscous from the VA has ingredients purposely put in there so it isn't fit for IV. I hate that in Europe they actually allowed people to use IV Methadone Ampules from some clinics for certain patients but nothing like that in the USA for MMT.
I understand your post was about detoxing off what you were on but my response was to someone talking about how IV'ing that much methadone would give you a monster tolerance & the emphasis from a few people was that 160mg IV methadone was going to give you a worse tolerance and w/d than 160 mg oral methadone was going to. Which simply is not true... there is a slight difference but the oral BA is extremely high that it really negates any difference in your tolerance or withdrawal in comparison to someone who has say 100mg oral morphine habit compared to 100mg IV morphine habit. Because with Morphine orally you lose around 60%-80% where IV you don't lose any, it's 100% (that's if it's hospital for IV use Morphine, if your prepping pills of course your going to lose some of the Morphine in the prep process).
Sorry If I didn't make it clear that my original intentions were to point that misconception out as I just don't like misinformation spread about like wildfire as more people than you probably realize rely on this site & believe anything posted here most be the truth or mean it's ok. This site was started and still is about
Harm Reduction or at least I thought it still was. I've taken a long absence from here to be a site tech for Opiophile.org but I love bluelight, always will and always have loved it.
You won't be the first person to hate me for saying things people just don't want to hear on this website. But for everyone one person like you I get 10 who PM me & thank me for the help. Thank me for good information on what they can do to harm themselves "less" if they are going to do it anyways. I used to hook people up with Micron Filters at cost through this site for a long time & now I do it locally for IV users. I'm into harm reduction so when I'm stoned & have opiates plus some caffeine in me & I read something like I did I tend to write, & write a lot. I don't say things to put people down or scare them but I will absolutely point out the dangers so maybe some body reading up on IV'ing Methadone who is on the fence about it, can at least make an educated decision upon reading some factual information. You would honestly be better off IV'ing the methadone pills and micron filtering with a .45um & then a .20um filter (or even just one .20 um would be fine but that's a lot of liquid id run it through both) than using the clinics liquid done as crazy as that sounds.
I'm the Dankaholic, the "debby downer" of threads in the OD forum at times but until you've seen a young person come into the ER and lose a limb over a bad IV interaction shooting something they shouldn't then don't act like I'm overreacting or putting my life story out there. I just want to let you know I'm not "blindly preaching" as many do. Just 2 weeks ago we amputated the right arm of a 20 year old male for IV use of that stupid "Salt" crap that's like legal Cocaine. He'd been using it for a while and all the sudden one bad poke one day and necrosis set in FAST, it was oozing black puss from the IV site & his arm swelled to 4x it's size. You Couldn't even bend it, spent 10 days trying to save the arm but it was a no go & had to be amputated just above his right ACL below the shoulder.
Sorry I ranted about the dangers and pointlessness of IV use of Methadone but I've seen a lot and If I could save one persons arm or leg writing that I can take 1000 people hating me for writing it. Oh well
A lot of people know me around here & like I said you either love me or hate me. I love everyone, even those who hate me ;-)
If you want professional advice and an in depth taper plan you can PM me I'll give you my personal advice. You said you have 25 8mg Suboxone pills? How much do you have on hand for Benzo's? This exact reason is why for one month I quit my Klonopin and just saved a whole bottle of 60 1mg Klonopin pills. Methadone withdrawal is hard and lasts forever because unlike normal opiates it stores itself in fat cells. Think of the way THC stays in your system for a month because it stores in fat cells. Well Methadone metabolites do the same thing so unlike heroin, morphine, dilaudid, etc. Methadone w/d's can last 3+ weeks. Too bad you can't find the Methadone pills on the street easy where you live. They are everywhere where I live and only about $3-$4 in small amounts and cheaper for large amounts. They are 10mg each so they make tapering easy. But if you have the same liquid most get and an oral syringe it should be 10mg to 1ml of liquid.
--------Taper Plan for 160mg's IV Methadone every 2 days----------
Supplies Available: 25 8mg Suboxone pills & Xanax ( & you said some methadone I believe is still available tp you right? )
Day 1: You gotta first start working at getting all of that methadone out of your system as much as possible so you can jump to subs without a precipitated withdrawal happening. Most clinics make you get stable at 30mg or less before you can change for safety reasons. A precipitated w/d at that high of a dose would be so scary I'd have to take myself to the ER for that one. On day one depending on how much you have left of the methadone i'd IV half my usual dose. In your case I'd IV 80mg. Just remember with the half life of Methadone if you did 160mg yesterday than the next day you should still have 80mg in your system that your stacking your next dose on top of. That's why MMT patients have a much higher tolerances than someone who takes 60 mg's every 3 days because they have the stacking effect of doses.
Day 2: Today I'd go about your normal day because you said before you only used ever 2-3 days. If your uncomfortable at all I'd resist taking anymore methadone and opt for a small amount of xanax. If you smoke weed I'd even opt for getting a good bag for this whole process because I find weed with a benzo also gets rid of the craving to get "high" because you are at least high on something that's a downer. It at least controls the craving aspect.
Day 3: Your doing good now today fight the urge to do an IV amount that would get you high as much as your going to want to. Only IV 40mg today This is one of the hardest parts, we all know it. If you have a loved one (gf, wife, etc) that understands your situation and is willing to help I would HIGHLY suggest you take advantage of it! Let them hold onto the Methadone you have left & let them give you the set dose you agreed on for your taper plan. My Fiance is also a RN so she understands medicine and Id always fuck up and do more than my taper plan called for so I let her start giving me my doses when needed. If you don't have that just have the will power knowing it'll save you a lot of pain not to waste it.
Day 4: No methadone again today and use the Xanax if your uncomfortable during the day. What I'd really save it for though is the night kicks and struggle later when you actually jump off the done and are waiting for the right time to start on the sub induction. If you can get some clonidine it'll help you too.
Day 5: I actually want you to try ONE more day exactly the same as the day before. Lets try to really let the methadone drain out of your system & get those receptors ready for some subs. Use the Xanax to sleep this night as you'll prob be pretty uncomfortable.
Day 6: You've made it this far & now you really deserve a pat on the back. Give yourself a 30mg shot today of Methadone. Below 30mg's is where you really start to actually feel the Methadone w/d. From 100mg down to 40mg felt like nothing really major. But that 30mg to 0mg is a bitch. Lucky you've been prepping and gave yourself 2 days before this 30mg shot. You should even feel it a decent bit because you have been tapering. If you must (to reward yourself today) take a little xanax with your shot if you have nothing else to do. Yes I know benzo's and Methadone are dangerous but that actually generally applies to opiate naive people and methadone doses over 60mg. I know most state laws cap your dose at 60mg's if you have a legit benzo RX your going to stay on during MMT. Just don't take a crazy dose. I just know by day 6 you need a little reward for your troubles.
Day 7: Finally been at it for a week. This is another one of those no Methadone days. Use Xanax for the uncomfortable uneasy feelings at this point. Your going to start to feel it since your finally coming down below 30 mg's. you should only have between 15-20mg active in your blood stream at this point due to half life. Weed will help if you smoke it as will any benzos you can find and buy on the street and they should be cheap. I know 2mg Klonopins are like 2 bux and worth there weight in gold for this process, as is clonidine but that's a blood pressure med you won't find on the street but could easily get a Dr to RX for you. It's not controlled nor abusable in anyway.
Day 8: Same as yesterday, be strong as the muscle pains and anxiety are probably going to be intense today. Your going to get the watery eyes, runny nose, and possible GI problems could start. Today you can go buy some "Loperamide" generic Immodium AD for the GI issues. Nice thing is Loperamide is actually an opiate like drug that doesn't cross your blood brain barrier so it can't get you high but if you take a larger than normal dose it dose hit an opiate receptor in your gut which is what causes the medicine to work in the first place, you know how opiates cause constipation right? Well the stumbled across Loperamide ( Immodium AD ) when trying to make a pain killer actually. It was perfect for an anti diarrhea medication as it has all the actions of an opiate for your stomach and it's receptors to slow down your bowels but not get passed your BBB and cause any kind of narcotic high. Good part for you is it stops the problems that w/d's start for you in the GI area of things and it makes your body think it got opiates to a certain extent when you take enough. It won't cure your methadone w/d's by any means but the GI help alone is a god send and any extra soothing it could help with the w/d portion is an added bonus at this point.
Day 8: If you've made it this far and you still have a little Methadone left I'm really proud of you and I want you to go ahead and IV 20mg of it. Take it easy & start mentally prepping yourself for the switch soon knowing your coming to the end of the Done' train and hopping on the suboxone train.
Day 9: Hope you saved your Benzos because the next 3 are going to be rough. Day 9, 10, & 11 I want you to try and take nothing but benzo's try to make sure you have enough for sleep as that's probably the most miserable part. Plus the benzo's will relax your muscles. If you can get some Soma's (Carisoprodol) they will be excellent for sleep with a benzo. It's the only muscle relaxer I find even close to strong enough to work on w/d. Every other one on the market ( that's not a benzo ) I find are just useless and too weak to use for w/d Backlofen felt like I was taking sugar pills when i tried that before. Also don't forget if you use benzo's too long your going to want to small taper those at the end as well. Benzo w/d is horrible and actually can cause seizures that will kill you. Another reason I keep an emergency stash. You can get through this, after this portion it's smooth sailing! You got this!
Day 10: See above
Day 11: Ok today is the day, im hoping... but only you will know. You should be feeling horrible by now, methadone has cleared your receptors, & it's out of your system as an active drug. Your only left with the deposits in your fat cells similar to the way THC is stored. So w/d is long from my Methadone but hopefully we will fix that today and be jumping to subs! You should have full blown watery eyes, runny nose, diarrhea, possibly vomiting a lot by now, & overall just going through the start of a horrible withdrawal.
Another good sign to look for that lets you know it's time to start the subs is when you hit the point of Opiate w/d where your pupils go from your usual pin dots to dilated as bad as they would be if you had eaten 10 hits of acid. Your blood pressure goes way up when your in w/d, really bad to the paint your eyes dilate like you were on a major upper. That is why clonidine helps so much with w/d it drops your blood pressure to a normal level helping you with sleep and being comfortable. Clonidine + Benzos (kpin or ativan is what i usually have) + Weed is comfortable as I think I've ever been when in withdrawal.
Use the xanax & weed if you smoke to help you at least feel a little better. If you are indeed at this stage by now & are using the 8mg Suboxones pills (orange nastiness I say, blah haha) Id break it into four equal pieces of 2mg a piece. Place 2mg under your tounge & let it sit there. If after an hour your not having a bad reaction like vomiting is getting way worse etc. than put another 2mg under your tounge or honestly I found them more effective to snort in small bumps of 2mg's to induce myself but some people can't stand the drip. Doesn't bug me. I have a harder time actually putting them under my tongue. Keep repeating this process every hour or 2 until you feel better. Not exceeding 16mg's for that first day.
Day 12: If everything went as planned you should be on subs now. You can still use xanax in small amounts if you have any left to taper yourself or make yourself comfortable. Stay small on your doses of Suboxone. I know a lot of people who were RX'd 24mg's a day who had half the habit I did and I could always get by on 2-4mg a day easily. If I snorted it 2mg a day would keep me well off a gram a day H habit when I was younger before I grew this monster tolerance, but a G a day of Heroin IV is no small habit and 2mg held me. So don't just take large doses of subs because you have them. Today I'd actually only take 8mg if you took 16mg yesterday... or 4mg if you only took 8mg yesterday.
Day: 13 Drop your Sub use to 4mg a day. If it works better for you do it as 2x 2mg doses during the day. I swear it's all in some peoples heads that 4mg of sub won't hold you but it will if you detoxed down off the methadone the way I laid it out and induced the subs right. If you have to since you have enough pills you can stay at 8mg for a few days before dropping... but id drop it sooner than later so you can stretch out the final jump at the lowest possible. Where your final jump can be from as little as 0.5mg of Suboxone instead of trying to jump to nothing from 4mg.
Day 14: It's been two weeks you should have this down now. Continue to decrease the subs for the next 2 weeks. If you need to stretch them out you can easily snort small amounts or as a lot of people do here you can IV very accurate little amounts of Suboxone as well & it will make your pills go way farther. From what I know, you can ask Captain Heroin, but 1mg IV'd of Suboxone is quite a bit and similar to doing a lot more any other route. If your not afraid to IV methadone liquid subs shouldn't scare you anymore. I'd strongly advise purchasing micron filters though to make it safe.
Day 15: From here you can hop on over to the Suboxone megathread or look up threads on Suboxone detox plans, diaries of sub detoxes, etc. & that will get you through the rest of it all.
Does that help you??? It's a product of Methadone, Redbull, Mango Kush, and 16mg of Dilaudid IV'd. I tend to write a lot but that should answer your original question since you got all mad about my "life story".... smile .... lifes too short.
-------------End Taper Plan, Let it go for 30 days total------------
To Adar:
yes this state is screwed for detoxing you because they will only Detox you like 3mg every 16 days or some crap and they do it blindly. Call it heaven on earth when I say they will take 6 months to go from 60mg to 0mg thats IF you can pay for it! If your being "Fee"toxed as we call it. They will do you dirty status in like 6 days I think & say peace out. The reason they also run the clinic this way is like I said in my original "rant" as it's being called is that this backwards ass behind the times state has only had MMT in the state for under 2 years when states like California where I lived my whole life have had MMT for over 30 years! So the clinic here doesn't go by any rules that most states have already established, they are basically collecting the data that the state is going to use later to make rules for MMT in the state which is scary for people I know on these crazy doses because these rules and a dose cap could change in a heart beat for them. Being a private for profit clinic though, I will say it's nice.
They don't even cater much to IV users and H users which I find a bummer because that's what I was the most. It's a bunch of Pain Killer popping pharmacists, Dr's, A high School principle, old people, young people, nurses (like myself), etc. It's like a freakin' country club of a clinic compared to the one in Cali' I went too where you didn't fit in at the clinic unless you were missing your legs ( or at least one ) & had "LA" or "IE" tattooed on your face with some other scribbles of jail house tats. Dealers sit out front of the clinic and sell H balloons to all the methadone patients... as they sell there take home doses to the suburban white kids to pay for there H since the clinics there are "Free" for the under-privileged people who qualify. So in hand the government pays for there H actually. It's like a day spa at the clinic here so of course there detox times are forever & a day. They want you to pay pay pay... they don't take insurance even if you have it. $280 a month for Methadone and mandatory 1 hour of counseling a month.
Methadone clinics here are not the same. Or should I say the methadone "clinic" here. This state only has one, there is no plural. They actually show up as 2 but it's the same clinic just opposite sides of town. One caters to one side the other caters to the other. They got people on Methadone for there Vicodin addictions. It makes me sick. They have a baby monkey on there back and the clinic attaches a gorilla instead. But when they are a FOR PROFIT clinic it is in there best interest for you to be addicted to methadone and on a big as dose as possible.
