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I'm not going to spend too much time on this, even though I have retorts galore for you. I'm just fucking tired of getting sucked into debates w/ 12 Steppers every goddamn time I express dissent for their program. What I will say is an addendum to things which turn myself and many others away from these meetings: the zealotry and preachy, didactic behavior of certain members. You, e_rep, did an adept demonstration of such behavior above, no less as a response to my uncertainties and doubts. Luckily, I'm not so dense as to take your belligerent and condescending attitude as representative of all 12 Steppers, but you did your program no favors by coming in here and being rude.
All of that being said, I do appreciate your point at the end about the cycle. You are correct, it can be as simple as stopping the cycle at the start, by not using. For me, it is about learning ways to aid me in not making that first step.
Well, I'm glad you won't take my attitude as representative of all 12 steppers, as I'm sure if I was someone with more clean time, I wouldn't have posted that way. You started a thread looking for help "breaking the cycle", I posted what has been working for me with no preaching or anything like that, then you decided to respond talking the program down. You could have said it didn't work for you, or anything simple, but you didn't. It's been saving my life, I felt a need to defend it, for reasons beyond just responding to you. All my attitude comes from my own shit, which is not being big on denial or just lack of honesty with one's self (self-deception), and which you pretty much admitted to in your last paragraph of your first post, responding to your own sentence of using morphine again after six months clean, and your second post. I do apologize for any negativity, but seriously, would you prefer I be nice and not say something that may help? If I feel your saying something in self-deception, would you prefer I didn't call you out on it?
When I first went to rehab 7 or 8 years ago...it's all a big blur on the time line...I was trying to get back to the life I once had, where I was smoking weed and taking psychedelics, and I didn't want to hear that I could never use again. I could be wrong, but I did take from what you were saying, that you felt the same way, and that was something you didn't want to hear from the program. Am I wrong?
And it seems you are getting info you are internalizing from different people here, but you have to ask yourself; have any of these people injected heroin, taking it as far as you have, becoming physically and mentally addicted, then was able to quit it for a good amount of time, and that's where the advice they are offering comes from? I didn't get that from many of the responses, if any, and if they didn't, it's hard for me to accept that they know what you're going through. Not to say they shouldn't post and all that, I'm sure you can gather what I'm trying to say here. And while fifleman posted something you took away, he did say he goes to AA meetings and SMART recovery meeting. And I don't mean that in anyway trying to talk up the program or that you need to reconsider or anything like that, I'm just saying.
After the rehab stint and me using after a few weeks, I went on suboxone maintenance for years. I was actually able to not pick up smack for a year and a half, and I had quit smoking weed in that time, not because I really wanted to, but because I was so stressed out at work for some unfair shit and every time I smoked, I just sat and thought of work for hours. That really sucked, but I made it a year and a half, then I had watched Avatar twice and remembered how much I liked movies stoned, and smoked weed again. Then a short time after, I was in my car and thought...there may be a bag in here somewhere after all the dope I used in it. I took my dash board off in a park on lunch at work, removed the plastic thing over the gear shift, and found a bag, which was garbage, but the overwhemling desire came back then. I then went on a 5 year "on smack, detox and stay on suboxone, on smack, detox and stay on suboxone", which turned my life into hell. The highs, the lows, the highs, the lows, the loneliness of isolation. Death had such an appeal at that time, and for years. But I did not kid myself, I knew I wasn't ready to quit and just stopped giving up on caring about getting clean, until I simply could not take it anymore, just so sick of existing without actually living, I put myself into rehab, and when I decided to go, I looked forward to it more then anything I've looked forward to for years. It's not like active heroin users go on vacation that often.
If you are on opiates now and need to get off them, suboxone is a miracle drug, but ONLY take it for 3 days. You only feel so bad, and it's not like kicking, so it doesn't get worse and worse, and on the 4th day, you will feel like you did the day before while on it, except you may not sleep, which is expected from doing what you've done. And I do not suggest going on an opiate maintenance program, even suboxone. I'm over 110 days now, or close to it, and I still don't sleep that well, and I only did 1 mg a day...well, at night before bed, and it feels like because of the suboxone.
Other then that, I really don't know what to say. And really, I don't think anyone in this thread is like what I said earlier, that they've been to your situation and quit without serious help. If they did, I'd like to hear how, but if you do make it somehow, come back and let me know. I've been a member since 1999 and I'll make sure I log in at least twice a year.
But really, I can't help but feel you're not going to quit, which is all you. I would suggest not beating yourself up over it. I mean, neither of us was unaware it was one of the most addictive drugs eva when we started, right?
