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[HELP] Benzo Withdrawals = HELL

That taper plan looks good to me. When you get down to the lower doses though you may want to slow it down a bit, you'll know if you're reducing too fast, as you'll be in semi-withdrawals all the time. If you start to feel like that then give yourself an extra few days or up to a week more to stabilize before you attempt the next reduction. Also I don't know what dose diazepam you have access to, but having a load of 5mg and 2mg ones will help a lot when you get to the lowest doses. Just remember a taper plan is supposed to be making things easier for you, so don't rush through it, even though it's tempting to get it out the way, once you're a few weeks into it you'll know if it's going too fast or too slow, so just be ready to make adjustments to the plan and don't feel bad if it takes longer than you thought. Good luck.

Thanks, Chris. Only two days in to week 2 and already I've reduced my daily Valium equivalency from 200mg to 140mg without any adverse effects. Except that now due to splitting up doses three times throughout the day, I've noticed I'm often fatigued and drowsy from the constant benzo plasma concentrations. My binge which led me to this decision to taper off consisted of massive doses administered once daily at night. So I'd enjoy the high for an hour, then sleep most of the half-life off, then remain anxiolytic throughout the majority of the following day due to the massive dose administered the previous night. I find that this method resulted in less sedative effects lingering throughout the day, but the beneficial anxiolytic effects remained till the following nights mega-dose. Which raises interesting questions in developing a more effective withdrawal taper than even the Ashton Method, albeit perhaps for shorter-term acute abusers - not long term benzo dependent users.

I say this because my productivity and motivation is declining day by day since I've commenced the taper, and I believe this to be attributable to the frequent (3 times/day) dosing. Plus it also appears to be making me more apathetic, which I never encountered during my binge of one daily massive dose. You have to remember that although Alprazolam has a very short half-life a single massive dose administered at night is going to get you high, put you to sleep, then the following day all that remains of the still remaining declining half-lives are the anxiolytic effects - not the sedative effects. This is a good thing, and may also prove an effective method for withdrawal tapering. Nightly doses comprised of the Ashton suggested three daily doses, consisting of majority Xanax in Valium equivalency, gradually reversing this ration to increasing dose in Valium while reducing Xanax dose in Valium equivalency. This would work especially well considering the much longer half-life of Valium. As the harder phases approach, a higher Valium intake is administered in one big nightly dose effecting anxiolytic effects lasting well into the next nightly dose!

I think I've discovered a breakthrough! This method also gradually reduces the dependants dependency on frequent benzo administration. I should be a psychopharmacologist!

Anyway. All is going very well in my taper. So well I think I may increase decrements and periods sustained at certain equivalencies by 25-50%

i heed your advice, Chris, as I approach the final phase, hence why I want to maximize dependency reduction while I can. Because I am cognizant of the probable difficulty in the final phase. This is where I have encountered a logistics problem:

My normally reliable prescription filler is unable to fulfil my Valium requirements to complete this taper. In fact, I only have enough left for another day. I have enough Xanax to continue the taper until I can refill my Valium scripts, but how long will this necessitate me adhering to this taper using nothing but Xanax? And this might present unwanted and unnecessary difficulty if I only had the Valium on hand. Nevertheless it should be one week maximum until I can fill my Valium script which means one week of adjusting the taper to facilitate the use of only Xanax - which can be done, which will have to be done!

And unfortunately I only have 5 and 10 mg Valium available at my pharmacy, but precise enough division of pills can accommodate the finer tapering process. But I believe I will be fine finishing my taper on 5, albeit for 4-7 days alone. Remember, I've only been on benzos for 35 days/5 weeks. My taper should last not much longer than that at all and because of my extremely short binge period I should find it much easier to withdraw absent the worst effects.

tl;dr: Taper plan going great. Down from 200mg daily Valium equivalence to 140mg daily Valium equivalence in 9 days. No negative symptoms. I am a genius, call me Al.

BTW I now have some Zolpidem, and am deciding the best way to incorporate these to reduce my taper schedule, especially in the absence of Valium and also due to the fact that my abuse of benzos were in effort to address my insomnia which I now have THE RIGHT PILLS FOR! I'll start a new thread for this.

-Albert
 
V = Best MOD on BL

Thanks, V. I'm stoked.

I'm certain those massive withdrawals I suffered were due to a complete cessation of Xanax after 35 consecutive nights of an escalating dose from 4mg to 10mg.

But I now see that this withdrawal process will be quite easy for someone who only used for 35 days. Really, if I didn't precipitate those killer withdrawals out of ignorance, I could have tapered right off in 2-3 weeks with the first 2 weeks of real aggressive decrements (Week 1: 1mg Xanax decrements first 3 days, 0.5mg next 4 days = 5mg Xanax/100mg Valium daily equivalence...Week 2: 0.5 decrements further 3 days, 0.25mg final 4 days = 2.5mg Xanax/50mg Valium daily equivalence) followed by a week of easy Valium tapering down from 50mg with 2 days of 10mg decrements, followed by 5 days of 5mg decrements. And there would have been an effective 3 week withdrawal tailored for a 5 week binge user. But I foolishly protracted my withdrawal period by my ignorant abrupt cessation. Anyway, should be done in 5 weeks now, so no big desl. I just don't want continued daily use any longer than necessary as this only facilitates the potential for actual neural alterations but I don't think the initial 35 days (despite rapidly increasing dose) followed by a further 35 days to self-treat is anywhere near long enough to effect even the most transient of neurological adaptations. I really should look at some studies before making such optimistic and certain postulations.

Anyway, do you know much about Zolpidem? I finally have some proper insomnia treatment meds, and want to begin administration ASAP as insomnia really is the source of all my "problems".

  1. Will I have a big tolerance immediately with Zolpidem due to my (declining) benzo tolerance?
  2. Is there a Zolpidem/benzo equivalency chart you can refer me to?
  3. If no chart, how much Zolpidem intake (planning on 10mg/night immediately prior to bed - unless there is benzo/z-drug cross tolerance necessitating a higher dose; 15-20mg?) should be attributed to my daily Valium equivalence?


Thank you, kind sir.

Also, I've sought clinical advice pertaining to concurrent administration of Alprazolam + Diazepam + Temazepam + Oxycodone + Zolpidem. There are significant interactions between the benzos and oxy (which I've now been doing for 9 days with the 3 benzos and Oxy) with no complications and doses of the benzos are declining. Oxy is administered on an as needed basis but they generally have me on 20mg ER taken twice daily with 10mg IR taken as needed for breakthrough (so everyday I'm taking the combined 40mg ER, some days I take an additional 20mg IR as needed). And there is only a minor interaction to consider with the addition of Zolpidem to the daily cocktail, so I've clinical approval of my concurrent dosing.
 
This states .5mg alprazolam is equal to 20mg zolpidem

This says .5 - 1mg alprazolam is equal to 10mg zolpidem.

Here is another indicating .5mg alrazolam is equivalent to 10mg zolpidem.

This indicates .5mg alprazolam is equal to 20mg zolpidem.

Your alprazolam has at least 20 times the potency as the zolpidem does.
 
If you want off the benzos I'd suggest not adding zolpidem since it works on the same receptors as the alprazolam, the only difference is that it's more selective (and therefore more sedating while lacking some other qualities of normal benzos). They do share cross-tolerance, don't even expect to get tired at all from 10mg zolpidem with your tolerance.

Adding 10mg of zolpidem to the mix is like adding 1mg alprazolam again in my oppinion.

I used trimeprazine to sleep during benzo withdrawal, it worked. I guess some other sedating antihistamines would work too but I've yet to find one that you can dose as high without unwanted side effects as trimeprazine.
 
No I find that one to cause me too many unwanted side effects (it can easily make muscle cramps and creepy crawlers worse for me). I mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimeprazine

Maybe it doesn't exist where you live though? ;( Here they will throw this at any addict detoxing whether it be benzo or opiates, you just have to mention you're in withdrawal. Or have problems sleeping.
 
Comparing alprazolam to zolpidem is like comparing phentermine to methamphetamine - i.e, they very generally work the same but when you get down to concentrations on various sub-types its realized that they differ drastically.
 
First, I'd like to say that I think it sounds like you're making progress, and the great attention to detail you've put into it is half the battle. Just reading through all this, it seems you're committed to getting clean, and that is key.

As to the evolving taper plan you have described, I think it's mostly good, but would add a few points.

-->Taking it slow for safety and comforts sake is a good thing, but just beware it doesn't lead back into a cycle where use is continued under the guise of a taper.

-->From my experience with tapering benzos the quicker you can move to valium the better. It provides a longer half life, in turn less temptation to re-dose, and very long lasting metabolites which will build slowly in your system as things go forward, easing the process little by little.

-->As has been stated, to avoid adding zolpidem for the reasons given is very good advice. What you're going through isn't going to be pleasant no matter how you slice it, adding something that acts on many of the same receptors only serves to prolong the inevitable. When getting off of benzos, it takes a long while to feel your old self again, but at the least you can take comfort in knowing you're going about it in a very safe way, thus not adding any further stress or danger to the situation.

I've been there, and wish you all the best with it. Please keep us informed on how you are doing. <3
 
dude.... you are putting WAY too much thought into this.
I didn't read everything as there is too much. You dosed for 35 days FOR FUCK SAKE. It's not the end of the world. Imo take 2mg of xanax(total a day) for the first week every day, with the valium you feel is suitable. And for the next week go down to 1mg a day + the valium. From there what ever dose of valium you need for a week or 2. That way you can make sure even if you feel a little off, you won't seizure. I really don't think you need as many weeks as you listed, that is total over kill. As i said it was 35 days of usage(although high dose). Just man up, you made the foolish decision of eating bars like candy. Now deal with the consequences, taper off but don't make it a 6 month long taper... That is absurd.
 
Tapering is always ideal.

A 4 month taper for a 5 week habit though, is putting out fire with gasoline. You will definitely end up with worst withdrawals than you started. People do tapers that long when they have multiple year long habits. That's kind of like using heroin for a month and spending 6 on methadone.

I honestly applaud the thought you've put into it, as I think it's an excellent taper plan. Nonetheless, I don't think it's required that you taper for that long. For a 35 day habit, I would taper over 2 weeks maximum with very low doses of diazepam.
 
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Yep^
And i exaggerated on the 6 month thing , but you get the idea.
When you stretch out a huge taper plan for such a short usage of benzos, you may end up hurting your self. Down regulating gaba receptors and such.
 
Read my last post or two. You've just reiterated everything I've said, albeit with more enthusiasm :)

I'm glad you, and chromo, agree with me though. Proves there is some competence about these parts.

dude.... you are putting WAY too much thought into this.
I didn't read everything as there is too much. You dosed for 35 days FOR FUCK SAKE. It's not the end of the world. Imo take 2mg of xanax(total a day) for the first week every day, with the valium you feel is suitable. And for the next week go down to 1mg a day + the valium. From there what ever dose of valium you need for a week or 2. That way you can make sure even if you feel a little off, you won't seizure. I really don't think you need as many weeks as you listed, that is total over kill. As i said it was 35 days of usage(although high dose). Just man up, you made the foolish decision of eating bars like candy. Now deal with the consequences, taper off but don't make it a 6 month long taper... That is absurd.
Tapering is always ideal.

A 4 month taper for a 5 week habit though, is putting out fire with gasoline. You will definitely end up with worst withdrawals than you started. People do tapers that long when they have multiple year long habits. That's kind of like using heroin for a month and spending 6 on methadone.

I honestly applaud the thought you've put into it, as I think it's an excellent taper plan. Nonetheless, I don't think it's required that you taper for that long. For a 35 day habit, I would taper over 2 weeks maximum with very low doses of diazepam.
Yep^
And i exaggerated on the 6 month thing , but you get the idea.
When you stretch out a huge taper plan for such a short usage of benzos, you may end up hurting your self. Down regulating gaba receptors and such.
 
:(

I loved the zannys so much my best friend started calling me the zan-man. Oh, how I loved that strangely non-euphoric high of the zanny.

I only had 2 bars today, and only 95mg daily Valium equivalence - down from 140mg yesterday - with no WDs.

I'm estimating one week from now I'll be off the Xanax, on a reasonable Valium dose (40mg/day) to treat my GAD and hopefully prevent panic attacks from occurring. More importantly though I'm wondering how much time will be needed on a reasonable daily diazepam dose to reduce my cross-tolerance enough so that I can treat my insomnia with proper drugs at usual doses; Etizolam (1st preference), Zopiclone (2nd), or Zolpidem (3rd).

In the meantime I'm going to fill this Quetiapine (Seroquel) script and use that to deal with my insomnia. Only I'm not going to take the 150mg my Psychiatrist prescribed. I'll probably start at 25mg and titrate accordingly.
 
While coming off the xannax you may or may not have insanely vivid and yet crazy dreams/hallucinations which you will then deduce as reality because of your fragile state of mind. I lost an extremely great job because I was convinced my boss was a bounty hunter. So much so I almost turned myself into the police for not even committing a crime. And I had no history of mental problems in the past. Be warned!

Mod note: Bluelight is a no "SWIM" zone. Welcome to the forum.
 
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Ive taken valium on and off,but as after a week or so they didn't do much to me so I could just quit, although I did go through a very greedy phase as supply was abundant, supply eventually ran out and omg it was awful, just awful I cant even describe the words. But take heart, for me, I took 2 days without, 1 day took them and spaced out the time increasing the days without slowly, it was bad but doesn't sound as hard as you're having it. Im so sorry but I know with support, moral and medical you can do it. you CAN do it!
Sending you a hug! I feel for you friend x
 
:(

I loved the zannys so much my best friend started calling me the zan-man. Oh, how I loved that strangely non-euphoric high of the zanny.

I only had 2 bars today, and only 95mg daily Valium equivalence - down from 140mg yesterday - with no WDs.

I'm estimating one week from now I'll be off the Xanax, on a reasonable Valium dose (40mg/day) to treat my GAD and hopefully prevent panic attacks from occurring. More importantly though I'm wondering how much time will be needed on a reasonable daily diazepam dose to reduce my cross-tolerance enough so that I can treat my insomnia with proper drugs at usual doses; Etizolam (1st preference), Zopiclone (2nd), or Zolpidem (3rd).

In the meantime I'm going to fill this Quetiapine (Seroquel) script and use that to deal with my insomnia. Only I'm not going to take the 150mg my Psychiatrist prescribed. I'll probably start at 25mg and titrate accordingly.
How is your taper going?

Just so you can maybe put things into perspective a little.... During June/July 2010 I was using around 20-40mg Xanax per day for around 1 Month, I quit cold turkey and went through 3 weeks or so of diirty withdrawals but no seizures. After the 3 week mark things improved considerably, but foolishly I relapsed at around the 7 week clean mark.

You say you want to treat your Insomnia with proper drugs like Etizolam etc... But these will most likely end up causing you the same problems.
 
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