Help and advice on quitting (oxy)

[goodtimes...]

Hi everyone

I thought I'd write up this post to ask for some advice and support with my oxy addiction. I thought it would also help to actually write down the truth - this is the first time I've shared the whole story with anyone.

I first got into oxy 5 years ago when it was prescribed to me for severe back pain - it didn't take very long for me to work out it had recreational value - in fact, to be honest, I knew I could get high from it and although previously I'd only been in to party drugs and a lot of weed, I'd smoked some H a few years earlier and really liked it. The prognosis for the back pain was surgery, though my physio said if I could wait it out, I could get better without surgery.

During this first stint I was only on them for a couple of months and only maybe 40 or 60mg a day - I'd take 2 x 20mg controlled release throughout the day then crush and sniff a 20 at night. Each morning I would throw up from the small amount of oxy the night before. I stopped cold turkey by accident, the back pain had subsided so I stopped taking the meds and went through a pretty tough 48 hours of fever/shivers, extreme nausea.

I had relapses of back pain over the past 5 years years which coincided with prescriptions of oxy - I had a sick feeling in my head that my painful back condition was brought on by my strong desire to get oxys - it makes me feel sad when I think that - though I really do think it may be true. Through amazing advancements in technology it was soon possible for me to buy oxys online and have them delivered to my door as well - they became my DOC above weed and MDMA.

Three months ago my back pain returned with a vengeance as did my oxy habit - I ended up on round 120 - 150mg a day - all crushed and snorted. My one saving grace is that although I got to this level in the first few weeks I managed to not increase it too much in the following months, even though it no longer covered the pain. I finally succumbed to surgery two weeks ago - one of the main reasons was I wanted to stop the pain factor behind taking the oxy in the first place. Whilst in hospital they gave me the little clicker thing with fentanyl every 5 mins. That combined with my oxys had me pretty high for a few days and I was god awful sick when I got home from surgery - guessing it was starting and stopping the fentanyl. Since then I've been able to reduce my intake down to 60mg a day... I bump 4 x 15mg throughout the day when needed.

Where do I go from here? Should I continue to taper or just toughen up and face the music. After reading loads of posts on here I know my habit isn't big - but because I've had such an addictive and compulsive relationship with drugs (smoking weed for 20 years) - I think there is a strong psychological element to this too (I even have mini withdrawals when I stop smoking weed). It was painful to get down to 60mg - but I'm finding it hard to budge from here. I've got enough to keep tapering plus I've got weed and valium which help with the nausea.

Is there any benefit in detoxing for a day or so and then have a little bit to stop getting too sick and then giving it another day? Is that beneficial or just a waste of time as well as painful? I don't know if I could stop cold turkey to be honest. How slow to taper from 60mg?

Thanks for listening everyone - unfortunately as supportive as my friends and family have been with my back pain/surgery they don't understand the difficulties I have with stopping oxy (they didn't know I was taking it recreationally) they're like, "Just stop taking it!" and "Why are you still taking that even though you've had surgery?" Worst part is although its been a bitch to get down to where I am, my family think I'm not trying and am week for not going cold turkey. Look its all my fault to be in the position I am - I made mistakes - I let the fun,crazy, risk taking side of me loose and am now dealing with that. Exercise has helped in the past but because I'm post-op I still can't do any proper exercise for another month.

All advice, tips and encouragement welcome! Thanks

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey goodtimes and welcome to Blue Light I am not a big fan of tapering. I kinda feel that it may just cause us to be a little sick for a long time followed by the inevitable time we have to stop using completely and have to go through a lesser version of full blown acutes anyway. I jumped right off 150mgpd methadone, 260mgpd roxies, and 6 mgpd xanax and it was rough but fully doable. Since I was exploring other pain options before I did this I had also tapered and jump from much lower doses of the methadone and oxy before getting back on as the other pain medications didn't work. From these combined experiences I have decided, at least for me, that tapering just prolonged my misery. Which ever way you choose to detox I would consider getting a Naltrexone Implants to provide a safety net for a few months in early recovery. This will obviously prevent you from being able to take any opiate pain medication so this decision needs to be examined closely.

The medications I would explore the use of fror detox would be:

>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE<
OR >Lyrica<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol

The-Brain-and-Addiction-(under-construction)

Addiction Guide

SMART Recovery (Support Group information and discussion)

Twelve-Step Addiction Recovery Support Groups

Varied Approaches to Addiction Recovery


The beginning of a whole new life.. it get good pretty quick.
Good things about being off drugs/getting sober

You can do this I would also look into physical therapy for your back.

 

[goodtimes...]

Hi neversickanymore - thanks much for your kind and thoughtful response - it really got me thinking about the bigger picture and an insight to how addiction works. I'd already seen the links you included a while back, but I've read up on neuroscience a bit since then, and I got a lot more out of it this time.

After 2 weeks of being on a low, miserable dose I blew out last night with extra oxy, weed and vals. I couldn't fight the urges it was funny hearing the conversation in my mind - like a game of tennis - back and forth, Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Just a little bit? No. But I've been so good! No. Well I'm going to do it anyway! Ok - but you have to get back on track tomorrow? Of course!

Clearly I don't have what it takes to taper, I think I'm better trying cold turkey..

I've got all the items from your survival pack apart from Clonidine - can I ask my doc for that? Does it make much of a difference? I start to feel the onset of withdrawals after 6 hours from the last dose - sweats, cramps, anxiety, goosebumps - hate to think how I'll feel 48 hours in. But I think this will be better for me, I don't seem to have the self control to administer reducing doses. Question about Lyrica - what dose and how often?.

Unfortunately the implants are not legal here, only the tablets, and they wouldn't help me because I'd just stop taking the tables. On the positive side I have no means for getting any more opioids once my doc finishes my prescriptions. none of my friends use them and i don't know where i'd start to find them even if i wanted to.

More important I need to stop the cravings. I've been going around in circles with craving/broken promises/ self loathing for years now (with all types of addictive behaviour) and I'm only fooling myself if I think it will be any different this time if I don't do something different. I know I can stop, but I don't think I can stay that way without outside help. I'm going to look into some one on one and group support options.

Thanks again for help and support

 

[thedawn]

hey man,it's possible to quit oxy's.
I am on suboxone which gave me a normal life after a decade of OC/dope addiction.
just know we have been there and feel your pain.
it doesn't matter how low or high the doses,the end result is the sameain.
not saying you should try subs but if your life becomes unmanageable it's always there.
don't have much to say,just know that the life on the other side is beautiful.

 

[raver2008]

Everyone is going to have different opinions, I've never managed to completely quit tapering on oxys before but I have lowered my tolerance quite a bit which made the wd's less severe when I did run out. As far as clonidine goes, take anything he's willing to give you, it can all help.

 

[neversickanymore]

After 2 weeks of being on a low, miserable dose I blew out last night with extra oxy, weed and vals. I couldn't fight the urges it was funny hearing the conversation in my mind - like a game of tennis - back and forth, Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Just a little bit? No. But I've been so good! No. Well I'm going to do it anyway! Ok - but you have to get back on track tomorrow? Of course!

laughing with you on this... look at my location by my avitar

Clearly I don't have what it takes to taper, I think I'm better trying cold turkey..

yeah I could never taper on my own and had to have friends and family dole out meds when I did do it.. I really dont think it healps and IMO it just makes us sick longer.

I've got all the items from your survival pack apart from Clonidine - can I ask my doc for that? Does it make much of a difference? I start to feel the onset of withdrawals after 6 hours from the last dose - sweats, cramps, anxiety, goosebumps - hate to think how I'll feel 48 hours in. But I think this will be better for me, I don't seem to have the self control to administer reducing doses. Question about Lyrica - what dose and how often?.

The clonidine does work well.. it blocks the Adrenal response that acomanies acutes. It is a easy medication to get from your physician if he knows you are detoxing then this should be no problem at all. As far as the dose for the lirica I would check the Physicians Desk Reference or The book I use instead and feel is better and less filled with legal disclaimer nonsense is the Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia.

The dose I would explore with a physician for the lyrica would be start 75 mgpd PO bid (by mouth twice a day). May increase to 150 mgpd PO bid after a week. This medication should only be used to get you through the acutes as it can cause its own problems. This medication works wonders for allot of people as far as the restless legs and allot of the neurological pains associated with acutes.

Unfortunately the implants are not legal here, only the tablets, and they wouldn't help me because I'd just stop taking the tables. On the positive side I have no means for getting any more opioids once my doc finishes my prescriptions. none of my friends use them and i don't know where i'd start to find them even if i wanted to.

Thats infortunate.. need a vacation?:D

More important I need to stop the cravings. I've been going around in circles with craving/broken promises/ self loathing for years now (with all types of addictive behaviour) and I'm only fooling myself if I think it will be any different this time if I don't do something different. I know I can stop, but I don't think I can stay that way without outside help. I'm going to look into some one on one and group support options.

This is really one of the keys to being successful. Cravings are an emotion and come right from the limbic system (hypothalamus is responsible for hunger or the craving of food, thirst.. craving of water).. the purpose of emotion is to manipulate you into figuring out a way to do something and then getting you to do it. Emotions make you feel like they will never go away that you need to do whatever it is your being manipulated into doing.. they just feel strong and are really nothing more than an illusion. The strongest technique I use to combat craving is to design a thought pattern that will shut them down.. You can think right through a craving... so say Im triggered for opiates like I was the other day.. I get triggered and then the craving comes and the memories (only the memories of the good times never of the reached times).. you see addiction takes a still photo of a sliver of time when use was pleasurable. I have learned to play the whole movie of what addiction is really like in my mind whenever my mind starts hitting me with that still photo. So it goes like this.. I get triggered from something or another and craving and longing set in, can also be accompanied by unpleasant or pleasant emotions, so lets say i get triggered and it is accompanied by fear... first thing I do in my mind to to examine every emotion and see if it is in fact based in reality.. usually it is only partials.. then i think through the emotion.. So say I get triggered and accompanying the trigger is fear of something going wrong.. the funny thing about addiction is that all it wells lead to use.. so often the thinking makes no sense.. Like some addict thinking would be Shit my partner left me because I use drugs, I miss them and this sucks so I’m going to use drugs.. or man I can believe all these problems my drinking is causing, this sucks I cant deal so I’m going to drink.. if we take the time to analyze our thoughts in early recovery it helps as we are often thinking.. something that makes as much sense as I am so ashamed I hit myself in the head with a hammer that I need and want to hit myself in the head with that hammer again.. yeah in early recovery we are thinking crazy.. if we get triggered latter on we can do the same damn thing.

To try and prevent or lessen addictive pushes I think its really important to keep our dopamine levels up.. dopamine and the VTA and reward pathways are a huge player in addiction. Allot of the NA meetings are dopamine factories.. Hugs = dopamine, addicts giving themselves the credit they deserve and giving each other a hand = dopamine, prayer for those still suffering = dopamine (yeah apparently we are hard wired to meditate or pray and receive dopamine when we do)

There are allot of ways besides the fellowships to get dopamine releases.. setting easily obtained goals and giving our self credit anytime we accomplish the goals. Brush teeth= I'm doing good= dopamine (Im not playing around here, every time we give ourselves credit for getting something good done we get a little dopamine.. exercise is amazing, but cant start this till after the acutes are over as it increases the adrenals if we do it to hard and we are already hopefully taking the clonididne to try and keep those down. Meditation, sex (be carefull as this is pretty addicting in its self) also masturbation is a good idea in the acute phase as most of us get real horny when we are in acutes and allot of us haven’t done much in the sex category for awhile if we have been on the opiates for a bit.. so cleaning there pipes out is good and releases positive chemicals that can help a bit with the withdraws.. but after the acutes are over good healthy sex is a good way to promote recovery.. drink seven glasses of water each day as when we drink water we get dopamine and it helps clean out our system obviously. Make sure to eat regularly as this causes dopamine release.. we get dopamine from eating fat, salt, sugar, chocolate so keeping a small candy that has all these on us at all times is a good idea as it provides a quick dopamine release if we start to crave hard.. m&m's are great and there is a reason they are the most popular candy in the world and its not because they taste that good..




You can do this

 

[goodtimes...]

Hey thanks for your replies everyone - particularly neversickanymore - great advice, loads of good info there, cheers.

The craving/emotion stuff makes a lot of sense - learning about addiction and whats actually going on in my head is empowering. Thanks for taking the time to explain it. I'm going to keep reading up on addiction because apart from its relevance now, its fascinating and key for my future sustainability. Do you have any other links to read?

So it's started. I just got rid of all my oxy - apart from a few 5mg IR I've given my house mate (in case of emergency!) I'll call my doc tomorrow and tell him I'm stoping (he wants me to taper for 3 more weeks) so that will be the end of the prescriptions. I guess I'm lucky in that regard, because, unlike other drugs, for me oxy will be unobtainable - even if/when I want it down the track - theres no way I can get it. Anyway here goes!

Thanks again nsa and co - your posts have given me confidence that I can do this. Take control - face the music - what goes up must come down, oy!

 

[goodtimes...]

24 hours in and so far so good. i've felt pretty sketchy but haven't been sick. the lyrica has really helped - i've been taking 2 x 150s a day. i'm actually surprised i'm not feeling more sick by now - is the lyrica just delaying the inevitable or is it actually reducing the symptoms? either way all is well

 

[neversickanymore]

In my opinion it is that good at helping with the symptoms.. I wish I had known about it when I detoxed. I am so glad you are doing well. So it may or may not get a little worse but you are doing it goodtimes Way to go.. just a little bit longer and you will be over the hump and no it isn't an opiat so its not delaying the inevitable. Keep it up as it doesn't take but a little while to wander out of the tunnel. Also the addition of clonidine will likely be really beneficial around day three or so.

I will post these links so you can brows them when you are ready. Usually The paws start about two to two and a half days after we wander out of the dark tunnel. It then usually becomes a a few months of keeping our insane emotional response in check. A good technique of adding a larger plan for this is to keep our thoughts in the moment. If we slip into yesterday we can get hit with guilt, shame, remorse, anger.. If we slip into tomorrow we can get hit with fear, anxiety, self doubt, hopelessness.. but if we are able to stay in today then we have a much easier time of it.

Here is a great thread about a meditation tequnique that is reall beneficial in doing this Post Your Best Mindfulness Resources and Experiences


Here is some real good information on PAWS.

Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)

Post Acute Withdrawal (PAW) Excerpted From “Staying Sober” By: Terence T. Gorski

Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Nice work goodtimes.. a little more struggle and the Good Times will begin

 

[goodtimes...]

In my opinion it is that good at helping with the symptoms.. I wish I had known about it when I detoxed. I am so glad you are doing well. So it may or may not get a little worse but you are doing it goodtimes Way to go.. just a little bit longer and you will be over the hump and no it isn't an opiat so its not delaying the inevitable. Keep it up as it doesn't take but a little while to wander out of the tunnel. Also the addition of clonidine will likely be really beneficial around day three or so.

I will post these links so you can brows them when you are ready. Usually The paws start about two to two and a half days after we wander out of the dark tunnel. It then usually becomes a a few months of keeping our insane emotional response in check. A good technique of adding a larger plan for this is to keep our thoughts in the moment. If we slip into yesterday we can get hit with guilt, shame, remorse, anger.. If we slip into tomorrow we can get hit with fear, anxiety, self doubt, hopelessness.. but if we are able to stay in today then we have a much easier time of it.

Here is a great thread about a meditation tequnique that is reall beneficial in doing this Post Your Best Mindfulness Resources and Experiences


Here is some real good information on PAWS.

Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)

Post Acute Withdrawal (PAW) Excerpted From “Staying Sober” By: Terence T. Gorski

Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

Nice work goodtimes.. a little more struggle and the Good Times will begin

Hey neversickanymore thanks for the support as well as the links. I found them really interesting - especially the paws stuff. No drugs for 3 - 6 months! I can probably prohibit most things apart from alcohol - which happens to be my least favourite drug - and cigarettes. I find the pressure to drink from friends very strong - everybody I know binge drinks - particularly at social gatherings.

It's day 5 - feel a bit funky but still haven been sick! Had problems sleeping that xanax and valium didn't really help. I can only put it down to the lyrica and large doses of ganja - made it bearable. They both stimulate my hunger - especially the lyrica - I wonder if regular eating has helped? What I'm saying is that I've been in withdrawal after week long binges which were way worse, albeit shorter.

Day 3 was definitely worse day yet, couldn't leave my room, muscle cramps, fever, malaise, headaches and just.. well.. shitty.

Yesterday, Day 4, was much improved then started feeling crap again in the evening, couldn't sleep (like the night before_ and took 20 mgs of valium and 2 mg of xanax and a few joints and finally got some sleep at 4am..

Day 5 - just woke up - feeing not too bad - tired from lack of sleep. Apart from that weird lyrica feeling (I mucked around with them for fun years ago, and apart from feeling intoxicated and falling over, didn't find them to much pleasurable).They didnt even fix my nerve pain. Though turns out, they are *good* for something.

I wonder how much longer until I'm back to normal? (whatever that is!) I've been wondering - does it ever occur where the acute withdrawals are less intense but drag out longer? I was running to the toilet regularly yesterday - but wasn't vomiting, now thats gone today. Is it possible that Im now through the worst of it? What should I expect from here in terms of acutes?

Thanks again for all your help - I feel so much better for your support...

 

[goodtimes...]

OK problem.
I'm 6 days in and feeling well - not perfect - but much better than a few days ago! Day 3 was definitely the hardest with the last few not being too bad - cold like symptoms, crawling skin and very tired. So today is my birthday day and I've still got the 30mg I stashed in case the withdrawals were too bad (which they weren't). It's only going to be a chill day but I ALWAYS get high on my birthday and the urges to have some fun and take the last bit of oxy is driving me crazy. I literally have no more access to oxy after this, so relapse would be very difficult.
What will happen with my current withdrawal and recovery if I do this? I'm so tempted and want to reward myself for making 6 days; also mindful of not wanting to undue the hard work i've already done....
Thanks,

 

[goodtimes...]

Too late - all done A couple of celebratory glasses of wine, benzos n weed and my rubber arm was twisted. No more distractions at least. Though I'm not going to cry over spilt milk. The detox continues tomorrow! Interestingly I didn't get much of a buz...

 

[goodtimes...]

Feel terrible for relapsing the other night. Withdrawals are back - hope they don't last much longer. I knew it was the wrong thing to do at the time, but once it gained momentum I couldn't stop it. Maybe because of the valium or my tolerance still hadn't reduced but I didn't even catch a buz. Just felt guilty as shit, fell asleep and woke up feeling worse than I had in days. Luckily I have none left, though disappointed that my will was so weak.

 

[neversickanymore]

Throw all the guilt and shame out the window of a vehicle and drive, fly, sail, motor, walk, run.. half way around the world as it has never done anyone any good and only drives use.


Addiction Guide

 

[Feelin-u4ia]

I just read thru this whole thread and you had me in tears with the battle in your mind because I do the same thing.

for about a year I have been doing opiates for about 2 months daily, after that 2-3 times a week, and now once a month. I am at a very high dose of about 450mg oxy IR or 500 mg hydrocodone (cwe ofcourse) and ODD enough to say I do not get any physical wd's. All I deal with is fucking horrible anxiety (but iv always had mild anxiety) ANYWAYS point of all this is to show you that others are on WAYYY higher doses and are managing to pull thru the first 1-5 days.. infact as we speak i think im on day 6 or 7? and the urges go away when I come online here to chat about it.

talking about it really helps alot, I really think that you should try to come clean to a friend or a family member? girlfriend? anyone, once someone knows that actually cares the whole deal might maybe become a little easier, ALSO the best choice you ever made was disconnecting your self from a supply, thats #1 to me, if you cant get it and TRULY can't get it, as in doctors knows, no dealers, no online pharms etc.. thats THE BEST way to kick a habbit, you will look and look and look until you get tired of looking evetually. go good job on that one, just like everyone says man the grass is alot greener on the other side! just remember that when your feeling down and tell your self alot of positive thoughts anytime your feeling off.

Best of luck to you man, and just remember your not alone in this world, NO WHERE NEAR ALONE, if u cant talk to family/friends theres a million support groups out there, N/A, getting a sponsor is really magic because they truly know what your thinking and how your feeling and they can really push u away from it just by talking to you, I mean honestly bud your human! and oxy is just a stupid drug, remember that! you did the drug, but dont let the drug do you!