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Heaven a place on earth?

Gnostic Bishop said:
A good anecdotal rendering.

My apotheosis gave me a taste of what I call a cosmic consciousness and I think that that is what you call the heaven you cannot describe.
I bet your experience lasted only seconds. Mine was only about 6 seconds and produced tears of joy as well as pain flipping back and forth all the way through it, depending on our communication topic. I never cry.

As a Gnostic Christian, I try to remember my ideology when I look around Sometimes the heaven I logically know is here is easier for me to see.

Here is the longer explanation on heaven.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...
The one I can remember that was the most profound and the most blissful came sometime after kundalini activated the thousand petaled lotus in my crown chakra. Energy in my body slowly built up to a point where it was filling literally every part of me. I know that probably sounds redundant because energy is supposedly anywhere and everywhere, but it was the sheer mass of this energy and the brightness of it that I could see that was just pure ecstasy. And it just kept building and building. The structure was unique and symmetrical, the brightness of it was delightful and pure. It kept building until I was hospitalized and I haven't been able to experience that ever since, except in certain states of mind where I can reach just a small piece of it.

I called it the AVATAR state and likened it to what some yogis and sadhus and such call the light body. At the time I couldn't imagine living without it...
 
I'm thankful, yo. We drown desires.. a past tied with fish knots, memories.. even the sky changed. We hear crickets...

Life's heaven. To experience life.. Whenever I travel I take pictures, not to post them on social media, I don't have social media. Only Whatsapp but.. I take pictures because at the end of the day, we're stories. That's the heaven, to tell people a tale. We didn't had a choice, we were given a choice, we didn't understood what we had to understood. Being able to forget.
 
kingdom of heaven is within once you achieve enlightment you will reside in the eternal source nothing even comes close to feeling as a good as dwelling within the source consciouness at total oneness and peace, rest and love.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
kingdom of heaven is within once you achieve enlightment you will reside in the eternal source nothing even comes close to feeling as a good as dwelling within the source consciouness at total oneness and peace, rest and love.
Click to expand...

Going from not being unenlightened to enlightened is quite a paradigm shift and I agree on the great feeling it gives.

How were you enlightened? Enlightened by what piece of information?

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Going from not being unenlightened to enlightened is quite a paradigm shift and I agree on the great feeling it gives.

How were you enlightened? Enlightened by what piece of information?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...
i am not there yet but i have had some major shifts in my awareness and experinces of non dualtiy without drugs recently which showed me theres alot of work to do to fully self-realize and escape this cycle of rebirth and death. Dwelling into eternal love within you can be in ecstasy 24/7 if you choose it.
 
Heaven, which probably means sky doesn't exist. There is a place that I've seen, though, in visions (I'm a seer). It's void of all negativity. Imagine a place where you don't need to sleep. It's very nice
 
TripSitterNZ said:
i am not there yet but i have had some major shifts in my awareness and experinces of non dualtiy without drugs recently which showed me theres alot of work to do to fully self-realize and escape this cycle of rebirth and death. Dwelling into eternal love within you can be in ecstasy 24/7 if you choose it.
Click to expand...


Seems like a lot of fantasy compared to Gnosis, but thanks.

Regards
DL
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Earth only has room for hell. Heaven is acquired through the eternal oblivion of death.
Click to expand...

Yet evolutionists are showing that we are good to each other, to the point where they are having a hard time understanding why.

Check the stats for evil in the world and you will see that most markers are at the best levels that our species has ever enjoyed.

Regards
DL
 
Yeah, a big part of why I think it SEEMS like things are worse than ever is because we have instant news across the whole world, of the whole world, now. So all the bad things happening, we hear about, all the time. In every other point in history, you either vaguely heard news from other parts of the world or no news of other parts of the world at all. You basically only knew what was going on in your own community.
 
Xorkoth said:
Yeah, a big part of why I think it SEEMS like things are worse than ever is because we have instant news across the whole world, of the whole world, now. So all the bad things happening, we hear about, all the time. In every other point in history, you either vaguely heard news from other parts of the world or no news of other parts of the world at all. You basically only knew what was going on in your own community.
Click to expand...

Yes.

We are turned on by drama and the news caters to that for the cash/viewers.

Regards
DL
 
I've always believed heaven to be a religious term used to mean whichever thing the listener wants it to be, a concept kept vague enough to be acceptable across religions but used by skilled orators to make a connection in the listeners mind that really doesn't exist.

I've heard all of the preceding descriptions and I think the term can apply to them all. One that seems oddly missing is the non supernatural belief that heaven simply means the sky above us and all the ideas we can imagine might be out there. Because of its vastness and mystery it calls to human imagination like a blank chalkboard.

I've also heard that heaven used to exist as a physical place built by our ancestors just off planet enough to make industry a non toxic event for the garden planet below, someone or some accident caused a gravity well to pull our other moon, a water moon, out of orbit and crash into the surface, the changes in gravity made it impossible to keep our spacestations stable and many if not all crashed back into a flooded world.

I heard this from an old first nations woman who referenced herself as one of the council of 13. She explained that each summer when we pass through the meteor shower we call the pleadies (or something like that) it is the remnants of the world we built above the earth still falling down. There was a lot more including a tribe that folded space to hide themselves away before the disaster.
 
To me as a gnostic, heaven is perfect knowledge of God, or gnosis. It isn't a place, it's the understanding that we are the divine as much as the divine is in us. As within so without. As without so within. As above so below. As below so above. To me material reality is an evil, created by the demiurge, who I believe is the God of the Old Testament, the God that evangelicals and fundamentalists of all organized religions worship. Severed from their esoteric traditions they've forgotten the message and worship the creeds. I don't believe in a personal God, I believe in one who is beyond comprehension while we are still bound in this plain. I think that Hell is simply a complete severance of an individual from their incorporeal soul. Rather than eternal suffering, I think it's simply nothing. I think we have more time in lives after this to come to gnosis, but if it isn't achieved then there's simply nothing, a void.

Since i think that heaven is more of a state of being than a physical place, I think that we can to some degree "go there", as in gain an incomprehensibly small part of that knowledge while existing in this plane, through acts which bring us closer to an understanding of the illusory nature of the material universe. Through meditation, trances, extreme pain or pleasure, so called "limit experiences", and certainly drugs. I think however that this also has the potential to lead to ruin as it could lead one to pursue the ecstasy of partial gnosis as an end in and of itself, which would keep one from ultimately breaking free from the prison of the material universe.
 
Yourbaker said:
I've always believed heaven to be a religious term used to mean whichever thing the listener wants it to be, a concept kept vague enough to be acceptable across religions but used by skilled orators to make a connection in the listeners mind that really doesn't exist.

I've heard all of the preceding descriptions and I think the term can apply to them all. One that seems oddly missing is the non supernatural belief that heaven simply means the sky above us and all the ideas we can imagine might be out there. Because of its vastness and mystery it calls to human imagination like a blank chalkboard.

I've also heard that heaven used to exist as a physical place built by our ancestors just off planet enough to make industry a non toxic event for the garden planet below, someone or some accident caused a gravity well to pull our other moon, a water moon, out of orbit and crash into the surface, the changes in gravity made it impossible to keep our spacestations stable and many if not all crashed back into a flooded world.

I heard this from an old first nations woman who referenced herself as one of the council of 13. She explained that each summer when we pass through the meteor shower we call the pleadies (or something like that) it is the remnants of the world we built above the earth still falling down. There was a lot more including a tribe that folded space to hide themselves away before the disaster.
Click to expand...


I listen to the skilled orator, Jesus, who says that heaven is all around us and within us, but most do not see it.

If a god is to be omni-present, he would not be anywhere but heaven, or perhaps better said, heaven is everywhere because god is everywhere.

That was Gnostic Christian Jesus BTW. Not the Roman construct that most know.

Regards
DL
 
Factualist said:
To me as a gnostic, heaven is perfect knowledge of God, or gnosis.
Click to expand...

A fellow Gnostic Christian. This could be fun.

I , as a perpetual seeker the way Gnostic Christians are to be, and endorsed by the Gnostic Christian Jesus, who disliked idol worship, even of ones own ideology, do not recognize the possibility of a perfect knowledge. We are to always be climbing Jacob's ladder and add a rung every time we think we have reached the top.

Factualist said:
To me material reality is an evil, created by the demiurge, who I believe is the God of the Old Testament,
Click to expand...


That is our myth, not our beliefs. We are not literalists even of our own scriptures, although the wisdom sayings can be read literally.

Our bodies are not evil as they house that spark of god and no god would live in a corrupted house.

I did a post that you might opine one if you you like. Here it is.

----------

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
A fellow Gnostic Christian. This could be fun.

I , as a perpetual seeker the way Gnostic Christians are to be, and endorsed by the Gnostic Christian Jesus, who disliked idol worship, even of ones own ideology, do not recognize the possibility of a perfect knowledge. We are to always be climbing Jacob's ladder and add a rung every time we think we have reached the top.




That is our myth, not our beliefs. We are not literalists even of our own scriptures, although the wisdom sayings can be read literally.

Our bodies are not evil as they house that spark of god and no god would live in a corrupted house.

I did a post that you might opine one if you you like. Here it is.

----------

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

On the face of it I don't fundamentally disagree with any of this, I appreciate your input. You've given me quite a bit to think about. In response to your question at the end, I might've responded without hesitation that I find the latter to be true, but you've shown me a new perspective.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
A fellow Gnostic Christian. This could be fun.

I , as a perpetual seeker the way Gnostic Christians are to be, and endorsed by the Gnostic Christian Jesus, who disliked idol worship, even of ones own ideology, do not recognize the possibility of a perfect knowledge. We are to always be climbing Jacob's ladder and add a rung every time we think we have reached the top.




That is our myth, not our beliefs. We are not literalists even of our own scriptures, although the wisdom sayings can be read literally.

Our bodies are not evil as they house that spark of god and no god would live in a corrupted house.

I did a post that you might opine one if you you like. Here it is.

----------

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

I'm kind of struggling with the 'reality' here. Surely there is no 'reality' (neither 'Christian' nor 'Gnostic') only interpretations of writings of dubious origin.

It's all fuckin bollocks and has no relevance to modern society. So why bother stressing over it?
 
Factualist said:
On the face of it I don't fundamentally disagree with any of this, I appreciate your input. You've given me quite a bit to think about. In response to your question at the end, I might've responded without hesitation that I find the latter to be true, but you've shown me a new perspective.
Click to expand...

That is what Gnostic Christianity was invented to do.

I am pleased to be able to live our ideology and have some recognize it's value.

Seek on my friend.

Regards
DL
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
I'm kind of struggling with the 'reality' here. Surely there is no 'reality' (neither 'Christian' nor 'Gnostic') only interpretations of writings of dubious origin.

It's all fuckin bollocks and has no relevance to modern society. So why bother stressing over it?
Click to expand...

Some things will make logical sense and some will not.

I put the Gnostic Christian view that is irrefutable. That is hardly bollocks unless you can refute it.

The present modern society is mostly believing in the bollocks of a supernatural heaven and hell that we can only wish for, while ignoring that heaven and hell are here and now and that we can either accept reality or reject it.

Bollocks is rejecting reality the way the religious who believe in the supernatural have done.

We all know of the ongoing hardships of homophobia and misogyny that that bollocks has created.

You promote that bollocks by calling reality bollocks. You are a part of the problem and not a part of the remedy we need.

Regards
DL
 
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