having a stroke is like breaking through?

[Solipsis]

Right. Well the loss of sense of self just seemed like a possible commonality, I've had so many mushroom trips where I completely forgot who I was and what I was doing and when I tried to figure it out I keeped circling back which sounds very much like that woman's description.

I didn't mean to say at all that getting a stroke would have other aspects of tripping or that anything is good about it, of course not. So I don't think it was necessary for people to take it that way.

 

[Ismene]

I think there's a limitation on language - while "losing your sense of self" may be common to both experiences, the actual emotional and physical meaning of that phrase will be completely and utterly different in each case.

 

[huolesoh]

yes the first time i saw this video i too thought it seemed quite parallel to a description of a psychedelic experience

 

[zn13bt]

This thread is making me think of my stepfather who died a few years ago of a brain aneurism. I wasn't there when it happened, but based on what I've heard about how he was behaving that last night he was conscious, I very much doubt that he was having any kind of a psychedelic experience...more like panic and sheer terror. It's a terrible way to go.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Not even gonna read that shite. I now a right few people who have had strokes and they're basically fucked

All these knee-jerk ticked off reactions here are pissing me off. Read the article. It is ***NOT*** saying, "Hey strokes are cool and trippy, go try and have one!" Idiots. READ IT! It is *ONE* story by someone who by some amazing luck of random draw happened to have one that triggered some very profound experiences that may shed light on certain philosophical interpretations of our universe and the nature of our being and our awareness.

NO ONE, least of all the subject involved, is saying strokes are a good thing in ANY way... ONLY that HER stroke by odd chance caused an experience that she felt obligated to tell the world about, as well she should.

For crying out loud, stand down, Gomer Pyles! And try doing a little reading and less presuming.

 

[Ismene]

All these knee-jerk ticked off reactions here are pissing me off.

And your knee-jerk reaction is ticking off your sweet old Uncle Ismene

Read the article

I have. It sounds like a thousand other near-death experiences. Rather more disturbingly it sounds very like those experiences described by fundamentalist christians who always mention "God". I was waiting to see if Jill mentioned "God" and sure enough she does. It's useful for a christian to mention she met "God" when she died isn't it - because it makes the christian case against all those arsehole athiests and they've no way of arguing back unless they die too right?

Here's old Jill:


"The absence of experience is bliss. It was peaceful and beautiful there. I was with God," she believes.

Were you now Jill. The christian God I'm guessing. Not Allah? Not Vishnu? Not Mars the God of heavy metal but God - the christian God - the God who wrote the Bible you're punching. Coincidence or what?


that may shed light on certain philosophical interpretations of our universe and the nature of our being and our awareness.

Well, it casts light on a christian God - which is awful useful for a christian doncha think?

that she felt obligated to tell the world about, as well she should.

Christians often feel obligated to tell the world about stuff like this. If you want to believe them then fine, but don't attack anyone who doesn't swallow it whole.

And her language doesn't sound anything like a psychedelic experience to me - where are the explosive flashing colours for a start?

 

[DwayneHoover]

^ Thanks Uncle Ismene! Very thoughtful response that actually gives a little more to chew on that your typical one liners which is pleasant I concur with the dislike of fundie xian's retarded attitudes, but I don't agree with reading that into her comments... I think that impression you are having is more a projection from your own dislike of those types, and perhaps some negative past personal experience?

Anyway, also good question about the perplexity over "the lack of experience" being bliss...um, yeah if you are having no experience than where is the "bliss" happening at?

And yeah, there were no flashing visuals, but the sense of oceanically being connected to things beyond you is very common. I know you think ALL such experiences are total BS/psychosis, and feel the need to denigrate them whenever you hear about them, being a hard-core hyper-materialist. But they don't have to be "real" as you might insist, to be meaningfull. What is an "unreal experience" anyway? A Hallucination is REAL as an EXPERIENCE THAT YOU HAD... and the important thing is not whether the exact details you saw/felt are actually there in the form of atoms and molecules, but what how the EXPERIENCE changes your outlook and behavior, and these oceanic experiences have a tendency to encourage compassion and other helpful activities.

And honestly I have a hard time believing any Fundie born again nutbags EVER really had such an epiphany... I think THEY just psychotically hallucinate a giant bearded guy up in the sky in a robe on a throne who speaks to them by name. QUITE a different thing, obviously.

 

[OPANAMONIUM]

I think the sheer, brutal intensity of both could be somewhat comparable. But I think thats about as far as it goes.

 

[Rocksteady3232]

All these knee-jerk ticked off reactions here are pissing me off. Read the article. It is ***NOT*** saying, "Hey strokes are cool and trippy, go try and have one!" Idiots. READ IT! It is *ONE* story by someone who by some amazing luck of random draw happened to have one that triggered some very profound experiences that may shed light on certain philosophical interpretations of our universe and the nature of our being and our awareness.

NO ONE, least of all the subject involved, is saying strokes are a good thing in ANY way... ONLY that HER stroke by odd chance caused an experience that she felt obligated to tell the world about, as well she should.

For crying out loud, stand down, Gomer Pyles! And try doing a little reading and less presuming.

Exactly!!! I didnt post this to say I thought having a stroke is the same as a psychedelic experience. I posted it because I was fascinated by some of the similarities of the way our brain acts regarding awareness during the two events. Her description of trying to use a phone, and forgetting which numbers she already dialed...Not being able to tell where her arm ended and the wall began. Just reminds me of some drug experiences I have had.

I think it is also important that she was not in a panic, since she thought it was fascinating as it happened. This is probably another reason that her report comes off more like a psychedelic experience than most stoke stories. I would imagine a psychedelic experience where loss of self is experienced, would be pretty devastating to someone not expecting it and whom had never experienced anything like it before. That same logic could be applied to a stroke being terrifying, for those who dismissed this because they know someone who had a terrifying stroke. Again I'm not saying that a stroke is fun...just that there is a chance it would not be as psychologically stressful if you understood what was happening to you and were expecting it to happen. Of course there is no way that you would know when it was going to happen, I just speaking hypothetically.

 

[Rocksteady3232]

And your knee-jerk reaction is ticking off your sweet old Uncle Ismene

Read the article

I have. It sounds like a thousand other near-death experiences. Rather more disturbingly it sounds very like those experiences described by fundamentalist christians who always mention "God". I was waiting to see if Jill mentioned "God" and sure enough she does. It's useful for a christian to mention she met "God" when she died isn't it - because it makes the christian case against all those arsehole athiests and they've no way of arguing back unless they die too right?

Here's old Jill:


"The absence of experience is bliss. It was peaceful and beautiful there. I was with God," she believes.

Were you now Jill. The christian God I'm guessing. Not Allah? Not Vishnu? Not Mars the God of heavy metal but God - the christian God - the God who wrote the Bible you're punching. Coincidence or what?


that may shed light on certain philosophical interpretations of our universe and the nature of our being and our awareness.

Well, it casts light on a christian God - which is awful useful for a christian doncha think?

that she felt obligated to tell the world about, as well she should.

Christians often feel obligated to tell the world about stuff like this. If you want to believe them then fine, but don't attack anyone who doesn't swallow it whole.

And her language doesn't sound anything like a psychedelic experience to me - where are the explosive flashing colours for a start?

I dont for a second believe that she was talking about the christian God. It seems to me she meant god in the sense of an all encompassing force that she became one with. Not that her and God were sitting their together in human form having a chat. I do not believe in any religion or god specifically, but I know that there is some force out there that holds the fabric of the universe together. That force controls everything, and is "God" whether you like it or not. She never mentions Christianity, and the term "God" is not exclusive to Christianity...or even religion for that matter. I can understand you not subscribing to any specific religion's newsletter, but it is unscientific to count out the possibility of a God all together. You make it sound like, because she said the word God...her intentions were to push religion on people. This is clearly not the case. She is talking about the neurological effects of stroke, because she is a neurologist by profession. I would see your point if she was just some christian who had a stroke and told everyone she saw god and so now she knows christianity is right, but again this is not the case. Sounds to me like you just really hate Christians, so the mention of God in general, instantly puts you off. Not a good way to think...There is some truth in most philosophy. Even if they do not have it completely right, and corruption of men mars the face of religions...for the most part, they are good in their simplest form. Religion is ruined by man trying to interpret and emulate ideals of perfection which are difficult to interpret, and impossible to emulate. However I think a lot of people need that moral compass, and if religion is used properly as a way to live your life rather than a guide for telling others how to live theirs...then it is useful in our society.

I do agree that many near death experiences and the mention of seeing God or angels is very likely a product of seeing what you want to see, or just peoples life experience motivated interpretation of something crazy that happened. But this doesnt make their experience of Omnipresence any less profound. People can only use the language and images that we have at our disposal to describe something, and since God/ Omnipresence is not something you can properly describe to someone...people would be forced to use the language and images known by everyone to try and convey the experience. So if you are a Christian, coming in contact with this Omnipresence would most certainly appear to you to be an experience with the christian God that you know. So I dont think these people are lying and just trying to push their cause, but rather that they had an experience which to them truly was a meeting with god. The truth is lost in translation.