Bupe Has anyone else here ever experienced this using suboxone after 11 months?

[OCeric40]

WTF??? Suboxone not working after 11 months? help!

Hey everyone i am new and this is my first thread/ post here so i will try to keep it short,clear and to the point of the threads title. I did do a LOT of checking into others threads first to see if this was already talked about.
some real quick background stuff to set my question up,
In short i am a opiate addict plain and simple, we all know my story because just like many here i found my heaven or utopia and also hell in using opiates like OC's,percs,H and so on
I struggled for years to rid myself of them after things about them went bad and they always do everytime eventually.
taking oc's to just not feel dope sick got old real quick and was nothing like the godlike pleasure they were originally bringing me.
Enter SUBOXONE! absolute miracle drug for a addict like me, a small 2mg chunk or slim piece of strip
was doing for me what the oxy's used to and i stopped craving or wanting anything else including booze and the Subs even at a measly 2mg would take me around the clock! Wow i had found my prayers answered for sure!
This is looking real good and maybe now i can start living a good, regular life instead of chasing the OC's 24/7 to avoid WD's and just to feel OK and not even normal. i stayed at 2 mg for months occasionally doing a extra 2 mg if needed later in the day. this went on like this for a while more and then i started doing a little more each day but not every day,once in a while i would top out at 8mg's total for the day.
Now i need to go back about 2 months ago, for whatever and definitely unknown to me the subs just stopped working for me or doing anything even anything even close to what they did those first 11 months 8?8(
also i am bipolar with a bad anxiety disorder and the subs were my main anti-depressant,anxiety killer and energy/motivation medicine. nothing else ever worked for me with my depression,anxiety or lack of motivation so being desperate
I tried higher daily doses(some days 8mg, some days 10mg and actually felt worse many of those days.
This happening and me having no clue as to why it is has me going off the rails lately and getting worse each passing day, i just lay around in bed all day with no motivation at all, no feeling of a future,i do not enjoy any of the things i have loved for years like playing guitar, gaming on my PC,working on my guitars,listening to music,having a lady friend either serious or just casual and other things but i will just leave it to those which trust me if you knew me you would understand how concerned this has me since those things listed are what always kept me going and even bothering with staying alive
How can something work so great consistantly for 11 months and just stop suddenly without any sign or warning I would greatly appreciate any info or help about this because i am really starting to think desperate even short term solutions like buyin some crystal to feel alive again and have at least a few good days
my sub doc is a waste for anything other than filling out my script for the subs every month. sorry but it is true he and many other dr's are clueless about the mechanics of suboxone and do not have a useful answer or better yet solution

 

[KillSurfCity]

it is possible that you may not have been quite as addicted to pharmaceutical pain killers nor street shit like H as badly as you thought.

when i HAVE to take sub/nal strips, i can still actually catch a buzz from it, it seems. i have been a daily opiate user for years now. everything from codeine to H and all the opiates inbetween. when i HAVE to take suboxone strips, i wait 48-72 (!!! 8( !!!)
hours after my last hit of H, crushed up oxy IR, or OP80's to make sure i am in the worst withdrawals i can stand. i only take maybe 1/3rd of a strip at a time on my off days. i may honestly just *FEEL* like i have a buzz because after being in WD, the normalcy delivered by bupe within 20-30 minutes of dosing can very much so help one to feel high when they are in WD even though the user really just feels "normal".

 

[StartedHydro]

It's most probably your body overtime has grown accustomed to the buprenorphine. Since it being a partial agonist one past a certain threshold no matter the increase of bupe no more agonistic effects. It's dose escalation and with buprenorphine it stops at a relatively small dose.

This is where if your looking to stay straight, save money, keep your life on track is where the struggles might occur with suboxone. It's happened to me. I messed up rather badly on a few occasions.

I've finely been able to slow my opiate use to a degree to allow for my tolerance to drop to allow bupe to be more noticeable per dose.

 

[OCeric40]

It's most probably your body overtime has grown accustomed to the buprenorphine. Since it being a partial agonist one past a certain threshold no matter the increase of bupe no more agonistic effects. It's dose escalation and with buprenorphine it stops at a relatively small dose.

This is where if your looking to stay straight, save money, keep your life on track is where the struggles might occur with suboxone. It's happened to me. I messed up rather badly on a few occasions.

I've finely been able to slow my opiate use to a degree to allow for my tolerance to drop to allow bupe to be more noticeable per dose.

so other than going back to OC's or other opiates to ward off the depression,fatigue,anxiety,lack of motivation and the other issues i have on a daily basis that keep me from having any joy in my life at all there really is nothing as far as suboxone being my daily med that can be altered/fixed?
I may have misunderstood your reply but it sounded like you were sayin basically my glory days with subs acting like a miracle drug are now over?
I do know that the very minimal and barely even felt/noticed effect i do still get at what seems like any dose of subs high or low is nothing that can help me with the issues i need the suboxone for, as i still go though all of them everyday again just as i had before ever even knowin what suboxone was. my old cravings and constant thoughts for OC's are back full tilt which is a no brainer since the sub is not working for me like it did and should.
I have been feeling so upset about this reversal of fortune with the subs that i got myself some crystal meth just to get some relief and feel good enough to not just lay in bed depressed. and i picked it because i had no doubt it would have a effect whereas the oc,percs or whatever opiate may have not yet?
of course this is a very,very temp solution as i have no plans on using meth everyday as my antidepressent or all the other things.

 

[OCeric40]

it is possible that you may not have been quite as addicted to pharmaceutical pain killers nor street shit like H as badly as you thought.

.

not really sure what my addiction would classify under??? maybe you can tell me?
Oc 40's twice a day as perscribed when i first got on them,5 years later after being on those and what ever other opiate i could get to subsitute for the oc's running out way too early before next fill. a the start of the 6th year i got clean for one year then got back into using perc's first then anything opiate again. got fed up with the madness and cost of it. got on subs
I used 2mg's a day as i mentioned at first increasing the amount here and there depending on how i felt that particular day but it never failed me then,it would always give me a motivated,high energy,want to do things feeling.
then bang approx, 11 months after starting them felt very little most day,some days nothing at all to the point i would do a dose 2-4mg and after waiting a few hours and getting nothing from that dose i would go back to my bed and just lay around all day
that has become pretty much everyday of the week, since the sub has little to no noticable effect i cant do the things i do when i feel "normal" on suboxone when it worked so i just lay back down feeling defeated.

 

[down508]

so other than going back to OC's or other opiates to ward off the depression,fatigue,anxiety,lack of motivation and the other issues i have on a daily basis that keep me from having any joy in my life at all there really is nothing as far as suboxone being my daily med that can be altered/fixed?
I may have misunderstood your reply but it sounded like you were sayin basically my glory days with subs acting like a miracle drug are now over?
I do know that the very minimal and barely even felt/noticed effect i do still get at what seems like any dose of subs high or low is nothing that can help me with the issues i need the suboxone for, as i still go though all of them everyday again just as i had before ever even knowin what suboxone was. my old cravings and constant thoughts for OC's are back full tilt which is a no brainer since the sub is not working for me like it did and should.
I have been feeling so upset about this reversal of fortune with the subs that i got myself some crystal meth just to get some relief and feel good enough to not just lay in bed depressed. and i picked it because i had no doubt it would have a effect whereas the oc,percs or whatever opiate may have not yet?
of course this is a very,very temp solution as i have no plans on using meth everyday as my antidepressent or all the other things.

I felt the same lately. what I did was decreased my dose. it's wierd because you would think that more would give you better effects, but I feel like when you lower your dose down to the sub mg level you become more sensitized to it. I also read that when you take less than 2 mg you get more "norbuprenorphine" which is an active metabolite and actually has better effects. so get yourself down to 1mg a day. fight the temptation to take more. i know the feeling that an extra 2mg would be nice, but it actually makes you feel less effects.

oh yeah. you could try taking an antihistamine on days you want to feel the sub more. the effects are pretty mild but 100mg diphenhydramine makes suboxone feel pretty nice. just dont take too much diph, Ive found that when I push the dose too far I get extremely depressed. now I just take 125mg dph at night and i actually get a nice opiate effect from the sub.

 

[OCeric40]

I felt the same lately. what I did was decreased my dose. it's wierd because you would think that more would give you better effects, but I feel like when you lower your dose down to the sub mg level you become more sensitized to it. I also read that when you take less than 2 mg you get more "norbuprenorphine" which is an active metabolite and actually has better effects. so get yourself down to 1mg a day. fight the temptation to take more. i know the feeling that an extra 2mg would be nice, but it actually makes you feel less effects.

oh yeah. you could try taking an antihistamine on days you want to feel the sub more. the effects are pretty mild but 100mg diphenhydramine makes suboxone feel pretty nice. just dont take too much diph, Ive found that when I push the dose too far I get extremely depressed. now I just take 125mg dph at night and i actually get a nice opiate effect from the sub.

Thanks I really am out of options and dont want to resort to using oc's or others again.
I was so happy with the subs for those 11 months not a complaint about them at all.
but now that i am not getting anything noticable out of em they are kind of a waste of money and time, like taking placebo's.
I more than anyone am shocked that it took 11 months for this to occure? and may have expected a slight toloerance to build up but not to this point.
I will down my dose to the lowest possible i can, nothing higher than 2mg's and under a day and pray, dont know what esle to do other than start all over and stop subs , go back to opiates for like 6 months and get back on subs and that may not even work?

 

[down508]

Don't go back to opiates. thats just plain retarded. going on oc's for 6 months so that suboxone will work better is a horrible idea. pretty much anything would be better than that. you know how much money you would blow through in those 6 months, granted you could even make it 6 months, and thats because you feel like suboxone is a waste of money? jesus. thats the kind of illogical shit we tell ourselves to justify doing drugs. dont get back on oc's. tell your doctor what your experiencing, he might just try to up your dose or he might tell you to think about tapering off. he'll probably tell you to start seeing a therapist. it seems like the problem is during the first year you were using suboxone as an antidepressant ant anxiety med, which makes sense because when you start on suboxone it does help with those things. now that you've been on it for a year and your becoming completely tolerant to it's more pleasant effects are wearing off and your anxiety and depression are coming back because you never actually treated them in the first place, you just masked them with suboxone. so aside from telling your doctor I think you should see a non suboxone related psychiatrist. tell them what your feeling and see what they can do. you might get prescribed an antidepressant like celexa or zoloft, and if you choose to try it you might find it helps. if your not willing to do this and your hell bent on getting back on the oc's, take some xanax or something. that really is a last resort but I think taking a benzo when the anxiety gets really bad beats getting back on opiates. make sure if you take bnzos you either get them prescribed or you dont take them when you have sub doc appointments coming up, otherwise your doc could start making you come in for weekly appointments and suboxone will really start getting expensive.

 

[i are spectre]

im sorry but what do you mean by the subs "stopped working"?

to me, it sounds more like a psychological issue unrelated to the suboxone itself.

 

[Paregoric Mac]

im sorry but what do you mean by the subs "stopped working"?

to me, it sounds more like a psychological issue unrelated to the suboxone itself.

Yeah, i kinda have to agree with Spectre here. Maybe the suboxone is doing what it has always done for you, its just that possibly your depression/anxiety issues have worsened? I bet if you were to stop taking suboxone then those issues would

become drastically worse. And like Down said there are plenty other alternatives to getting back on full-blown opiates. I would definitely make an effort to at least explore those alternatives because you yourself said that there was hell attached to

being on oxy. So in the end, all you would be doing is putting yourself back through hell. I hope you figure something out bud. Take care.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I agree with the less is more. I went through exactly what your going through after a year or so and the solution was to start taking less.

Try getting down to under 2mg a day if thats what you decide to try. Whether you do so gradually or a big jump is up to you but don't expect things to get better immediately as you must allow your body time to adjust for a few days. It will feel like the onset of withdrawals on and off for a few days any time you drop your dose too fast - but its not bad by any comparison to real withdrawals, so don't worry.

Once I got under 2mg day things improved. I got more of my life back. I became more motivated, don't over sleep as much, I feel more emotions. i have more of a sex drive, sex feels better, etc. And! I actually feel the effects of the sub more now than I did when I was between 2 to 8mg. My only complaint is that once you get low enough a single dose no longer works for 24hrs so you find yourself experiencing withdrawals kicking in before its time to dose. This can be corrected by splitting your dose into a morning and an evening dose or whatever.

Do what you want but I urge you to try getting under 2mg before trying to go back to using. Or atleast talk to your doctor (though sometimes they are too misinformed) or see a therapist. Going back to OC's is not the answer... dont let your addict ways of thinking trick you like that.

If you do try then it i bet you will be amazed. Just remember you may experience a short period of discomfort before things get better.

Goodluck!

 

[OCeric40]

I agree with the less is more. I went through exactly what your going through after a year or so and the solution was to start taking less.

Try getting down to under 2mg a day if thats what you decide to try. Whether you do so gradually or a big jump is up to you but don't expect things to get better immediately as you must allow your body time to adjust for a few days. It will feel like the onset of withdrawals on and off for a few days any time you drop your dose too fast - but its not bad by any comparison to real withdrawals, so don't worry.

Once I got under 2mg day things improved. I got more of my life back. I became more motivated, don't over sleep as much, I feel more emotions. i have more of a sex drive, sex feels better, etc. And! I actually feel the effects of the sub more now than I did when I was between 2 to 8mg. My only complaint is that once you get low enough a single dose no longer works for 24hrs so you find yourself experiencing withdrawals kicking in before its time to dose. This can be corrected by splitting your dose into a morning and an evening dose or whatever.

Do what you want but I urge you to try getting under 2mg before trying to go back to using. Or atleast talk to your doctor (though sometimes they are too misinformed) or see a therapist. Going back to OC's is not the answer... dont let your addict ways of thinking trick you like that.

If you do try then it i bet you will be amazed. Just remember you may experience a short period of discomfort before things get better.

Goodluck!

I wanted to say thanks for this advice! The fact the you understand and actually had it happen to you makes me have the hope i was looking for.
I knew going back on OC's or whatever was the worst choice but i was getting desperate and starting to panic.
Before you posted this reply i made the mistake of getting a 1/2 gram of crystal meth to see if i could get some temporary relief from what i am going through. it only worked for a short time as far as i am concerned and will not be repeated!
anyway it is a amazing relief to hear "yes this can happen with suboxone and yes it sucks but there is a answer that will allow me to function and have a life like i was on the subs for the 11 months before this happened.
today i took only 2mg's and will not take anymore until tomorrow then i will repeat the process a few days and give it time. thanks again!

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I'm glad to hear that you aren't considering going back to OC's. I am also glad to hear that you learned your lesson with the Meth.... sounds to me like we are a lot alike in some ways.

I would be happy for you if getting your sub dose under 2mg helps.

If it does not help please do not get discouraged and please don't give up. Try talking to your doctor and maybe even a therapist/psychologistif you don't already have one. There is always a chance that there is an underlying cause for the way you feel... maybe our body or your mind is trying to tell you that it needs medical attention by making you feel the way you do.

Let us know how things go and most of all good luck!

 

[OCeric40]

I'm glad to hear that you aren't considering going back to OC's. I am also glad to hear that you learned your lesson with the Meth.... sounds to me like we are a lot alike in some ways.

I would be happy for you if getting your sub dose under 2mg helps.

If it does not help please do not get discouraged and please don't give up. Try talking to your doctor and maybe even a therapist/psychologistif you don't already have one. There is always a chance that there is an underlying cause for the way you feel... maybe our body or your mind is trying to tell you that it needs medical attention by making you feel the way you do.

Let us know how things go and most of all good luck!

Thank you for the support and advice. I cant believe you mentioned it may be a "medical problem"!
I had this thought go through my head a few times after this first happened.
Since i KNEW FOR SURE it is not the actual suboxone that just stopped working,(i had tried going from film to the pills and back and even tried subutex to make sure)
i starting to think it may just be something with my health? being a 48 year old cigarette smoker with a poor diet i have been more concerned about my health lately.
You definitely have a unique/direct insight and i always felt best getting advice from someone like yourself
who has had the same issue occur to them. afterall who would understand something more than another person that had the same experience
thanks again for everything and i hope something good happens for you!

 

[laCster]

I have taken suboxone and subutex for almost ayear now, and I say that you are taking too much sub.

I feel a lot better on 1mg than if I were to take 4mg, it is contradicting because our addict mentality says that if I take more I should ffel higher or better right? Nope, not with subs/bupre, less is more actually, in every single way.

 

[oxyaddict05]

I was on subs myself for about a year. Started at 26 or 28mg, and weaned down to 18mg over 4 months, then stayed there another 6. The last 2 months I weaned down from 18mg to 2mg, then stopped.

It's been a while, but IIRC, the antagonist effect plays a much larger role as the dose increases. I hear 8mg often as a threshold for this, but perhaps it is true across all doses. The problem is that if ones tolerance is high enough, then higher doses of suboxone is needed to stem withdrawal. And those higher doses will have higher antagonistic effects.

This is a total guess, but if the suboxone was helping with an underlying depression, then less should be more due to the rise in antagonistic effects as dose increases. Taking more than 2mg over time may have raised your tolerance to the point where it became less effective for both withdrawal relief and depression relief at lower doses, and at higher doses the antagonistic effect may interfere with its ability to help with depression, leaving you in a sort of no man's land. Total guess here....

It could be mostly psychological and perspective based as well. Sometimes when I really really wanted to get high, I would start to get uncomfortable even tho the subs completely alleviated withdrawal. Also, for a period I was going back and forth between oxy/heroin and subs. At this time, the subs didn't work nearly as well and I still was left craving the full agonists.....but only because I was so inconsistent with it and desperate to get high at times. Not because the subs stopped working, but more because I stopped caring and was back to the restless and ever-craving junkie attitude. In other words, just feeling normal wasn't enough at that point and made me feel uncomfortable just as being sober used to make me feel uncomfortable.

 

[Tmoe]

Hey man, I'm new to this forum too, although I've been coming here to read for a while. I can relate to what you are saying with the anxiety and depression and even the subutex not having an effect. I'm going through pretty much the same thing , even did some crystal for a change recently. The anxiety and depressin cause me to abuse the only other thing that is helpful, which is Xanax (yes I have tried antideppressants first, might look back into them) although I should probably take clonezapam. Anyways. The point I'm trying to make is don't let this thing with the subs cause you to pick up another habit. That will make life twice as hard. Not preaching just conversations. I am a young man (21) and have been on subutex for about 8 months and I do not feel anything from my subs, except normal which I suppose is ok. In the beginning I loved them but I quickly got to the point you

 

[Znegative]

Like I saw some others said, with suboxone, less is more. Buprenorphine (the opiate that is the active ingredient in suboxone) is a partial agonist. This means that it stimulates your brains opiate receptors to a point, but after a certain dose, the effects plateau and taking more will not increase euphoria. As addicts were conditioned to thinking 'more is better' but with subs (which I experimented with at all sorts of doses, high and low, for years), I (and many others) have found that they get the most euphoric effects from their daily dose if they take under 4mg. I had actually tapered at one point down to 1/2 a milligram 2xday and each time I dosed I got effects that were almost identical in effect to low dosages of methadone. If you want to get the magic back, tapering down is your best bet.

 

[oxyaddict05]

Like I saw some others said, with suboxone, less is more. Buprenorphine (the opiate that is the active ingredient in suboxone) is a partial agonist. This means that it stimulates your brains opiate receptors to a point, but after a certain dose, the effects plateau and taking more will not increase euphoria. As addicts were conditioned to thinking 'more is better' but with subs (which I experimented with at all sorts of doses, high and low, for years), I (and many others) have found that they get the most euphoric effects from their daily dose if they take under 4mg. I had actually tapered at one point down to 1/2 a milligram 2xday and each time I dosed I got effects that were almost identical in effect to low dosages of methadone. If you want to get the magic back, tapering down is your best bet.

I will second this from my experience. 4-6mg was so much better than 28mg. Of course, only if my tolerance was lower as well. Each time I stepped down, I was initially more uncomfortable. But once I was adjusted to the lower dose, it actually worked much much better. Especially so with the positive effects on mood. 4-6mg was my sweet spot, but I wasn't on 2mg long enough to tell if it was better, which I am sure it would have been given a decrease in my tolerance.

 

[Znegative]

Yeah. I always found that when i dropped my buprenorphine dose down, it would take 4 days to feel the benefits of the dose decrease, and about 12 days to fully adjust to that new and lower dose.