Has anybody ever gotten thoughts like this on psychedelics?

[Jakeperson]

How could one not describe the effects of DMT, or any drug for that matter, psychotic. disrupted/disordered/deranged/screwed up, haha

It's been shown that what happens in your brain during psychotic episodes such as what schizophrenics experience and what psychedelics do are very different mechanisms.

People often think or say when tripping "This is what it must be like to go crazy" however they are very different things.

 

[Jakeperson]

Also fridegbuzz you're interpreting the term "ego-death" wrong. We don't mean literal ego-death, it's a just a term used to describe a similar experience that people have had.

 

[TheAppleCore]

How could one not describe the effects of DMT, or any drug for that matter, psychotic. disrupted/disordered/deranged/screwed up, haha

...What? No. "Disrupted" or "disordered" are the last words that would come to my mind when attempting to describe a DMT breakthrough. How about "unity", "singularity", and "oneness"?

 

[Bi0hazardOpeth]

oops. mis-post. Sorry other page didn't refresh and went here.

 

[jaurk]

I think about this often, but never really thought about, thinking about it, from this perspective
I was thinking just today.. what if all of a sudden, I just remember something, that is life changing.

Like when you go, holy shit, that's right, I have a child... woah.
I wonder if that'll ever happen to me, or if I'll wake up from a dream.
Or if I'm in a coma, anyways, I sound crazy, I never speak to anyone about this stuff, I love BL.

 

[TangerinO]

How could one not describe the effects of DMT, or any drug for that matter, psychotic. disrupted/disordered/deranged/screwed up, haha

^ Not understanding that others may have a different perspective. Sounds a lot like you're trying to force your perceptions of drugs onto other people, or at least expecting them to base their conclusions upon your perceptions.

I've always found the effects of hallucinogens to be the exact opposite of the things you just described, if anything I find I feel like I see things a lot clearer. I understand that's not the case for everyone but if you can't accept that these drugs are able to help some people, and if the person on the other end of this argument can't accept that they don't always help and benefit, you're both wasting your time.

In fact you both probably are anyway, arguing doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[swilow]

Nothing is real.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Nothing is real.

But if nothing is real...isn't that like everything being real? If you don't have a real to make a comparison to, how can you qualify something as not real? Are we living in a virtual universe of something, I mean, I think that's the same as it actually existing. But someone could pull the plug theoretically if it's all some simulation made in a machine in another universe. I've read some posit that by the very virtue of it being possible to exist, a universe exists (note: the set of all possible universes is not necessarily the same as the set of all conceivable universes).

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ That's what Alan Watts would say. Everything is defined by its opposite; an object is defined by the boundary between its outside and inside; everything has a front and a back; and so on. So, "something" necessitates "nothing", and substance necessitates vacuum.

 

[GreenMachine]

Here's some free advice that would otherwise cost you: durgz aren't enlightenment.

Don't call me elementary and uneducated without me taking a shot at you by calling you a raving drug abuser who is now convinced they understand the meaning of life and insists everyone around them follow the same route. Don't tell me you understand the mysteries of life because you smoked drugs. DMT is not going to show me anything but what it's like to experience a psychotic break. Amphetamines are terrible for your health and will waste your time away. Don't tell me you've experienced a loss of your ego and came back with all this deep, personal insight into the experience, because there isn't a way to escape the ego. The feeling of not having an ego is the ego. There is no such thing as "ego death" so refrain from thinking you know what you're talking about because you've heard other people refer to it. It bothers me when druggies lay down the law based on their own ambiguous trips.

And stop using quantum mechanics to validate infinity. It's more like darkness because we know nothing substantial about the subject.

look im not paying attention to anyones squabbles here, but it sounds like you got it all figured out fridgebuzz. he knows exactly what psychedelics do to the brain!
8(

please, dont listen to this guy. while i kinda get what youre saying, the way you are putting it just isn't right. these drugs were researched as psychomimetics in the 50's, by scientific researchers and the CIA. their efforts came up fruitless; to the outside obvserver it may seem as though one who has ingested such substances seem "psychotic", but over time, as these people began taking the substances themselves, they realized there was much more to it than that. as someone who has witnessed people having psychotic breaks, and who has experience with psychedelic drugs i can validate that this view is naive. to say there is no such thing as "ego-loss/death" is pretty ignorant of psychology. it can be contested whether one has experienced such a thing in a specific session sure, but to say that it doesnt exist at all is pretty rediculous. sounds like you havent ventured into psychedelia very far man, or insanity.

what im saying is if youre tripping hard and get paranoid and have delusional thoughts, you shouldn't believe these specific delusions projected by your brain in conjunction with a possible set/setting. that being said, to say that psychedelics don't broaden and change your perception of reality from your normal brain-state is completely rediculous. this guy is saying that "no you didnt experience x, y, and z" like he was there, knowing all the other poster's thoughts...please. sounds like you have some issues of your own to deal with.

if psychedelics have taught me anything its that nothing is fixed; the only thing you can be completely sure of, is that fact that you cant be completely sure of anything! scientists barely understand these drugs, and you know what they about assuming things...

to the OP: at this point in your existence, your mind can be rather malleable. dont be so sure of everything that pops into your head, dont be afraid to challenge things. but also dont value someones opinion on whats happening inside your head more than your own, not this posters or mine. take it all with a grain of salt, but dont be afraid to experiment things for yourself! personally ive gone through the same exact trains of thought before, but came to the conclusion that even though such a crazy thing is NOT impossible, its completely pointless to worry about it, since youll never know. you are wasting time of the extremely short human life concerned about things that probably arent even true! psychedelics have taught me to value the NOW, to live in the present, to enjoy every second of consciousness that one is gifted with.

 

[swilow]

But if nothing is real...isn't that like everything being real?

Yes...and no.

In truth I have no idea about this stuff. If we can truly say that "nothingness" is a physical quality to the universe, then there is no way to make the statement "nothing is real" make any sense. Its a self cancelling statement.

I don't actually think these ideas are important though. I think our human brain structure and language creates these paradoxical, dualistic ideas, but they are not an accurate depiction of the truth. They are like an interpretation of the apparent truth.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Oooh talking about nothingness, I seem to recall Sartre positing that negation is an act only made possible by consciousness. In fact it is a unique property of it, the introduction of that which is not frees the being-for-itself from the causality that affects of the being-in-itself. Or something like that, I'm really rusty on my existentialism so someone please correct me if need be. Anyway it's totally relevant to this talk of ours.

 

[swilow]

Is it strange that existence is so important to us? Is it important to us?

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

We couldn't sit here thinking about existence if nothing existed, so yeah, I'd say it is. It's always baffled me why things exist instead of absolute nothingness, it's pretty crazy in fact.

 

[cosmicjoke]

there is a flip side to the psychedelic coin where one would spiral down negative thought loops thus manifesting delusions that eventually lead to feelings of fear and paranoia. ive been through that before and i bet alot of individuals have experienced such states, i dont think that psychedelics are all fun and games but from my point of veiw i think that if you face your demons during the psychedelic state you can bend your hallucinations at will. no one is firewalled against difficult trips, what fridgebuzz said about the confusion psychs cause can be true but not at all times. so i just suggested upping the dose as with moderate/high doses i was able to gain a better prespective of what psychedelics have to offer as opposed to the confusion/meaninglesness experienced at low doses. im not trying to lay down any laws.

as for twisted thoughts on psychedelics, no matter how bizzare they are i always tend to resolve them after i reflect on my trips and classify them as miscelleneous and of no relevance or logic whatso ever so you just end up dumping them or ignoring them rather than obsessing about them. do pants have souls? .... no they dont!

happy tripping to everyone

 

[swilow]

^Really good post in general there

from my point of veiw i think that if you face your demons during the psychedelic state you can bend your hallucinations at will.

Agreed. One of the greatest 'revelations' for me came on a combo of mushrooms, DPT and on the tail end of changa when I started getting caught up in fear and edging towards panic; I was sure something cataclysmic was occurring, that I was never going to be 'normal' again, that life was utterly over for me, forever, when I slipped, for a moment, into a really sober, lucid, rational state- I realised that psychedelics create a powerful but ultimately fictitious experience. By fictitious, I don't mean worthless or fake, but moreso a state of extreme absorption in imagination and hyper-suggestibility. I realised that the fear I was feeling was based on an exagerrated, primal response to a threat which was only as powerful as my own imagination could make it, because the threat existed completely in my imagination, and I could control my imagination; in many ways, I am my imagination. It was a brief moment of utter clarity that deepened into a euphoria that hasn't yet truly subsided.

The realisation that I create my own world, both the joys and sorrows, has stuck with me. If I didn't believe it, I would never have been able to fix the negative things in my life, mainly addiction to opiates and benzos and the constant rehashing of early life trauma. I didn't need to 'fix' these things by enduring something incredibly painful, if I just accepted the pain and reminded myself that all the rest of it was no more real then the ephemeral outlook a psychedelic may provide.

Its really not much of a revelation; I'm pretty sure most people realise this, but for me, to spontaneously think in this (what felt like) perfectly logical, rational and honest way, and literally feel my pain subside immediately because I willed it to; its changed my life and time and time again proves to be the only method I can now deem correct in terms of functioning in this world. Its within and without everything I do, the knoweldge, the pure and untained KNOWING, that life is almost entirely an internal construct that can be made to BE anything. You just have to believe in that and, because its true, believing in it is easy. In that sense, life is like a dream and the fact that it may be real or may not be real is almost irrelevant to what actually IS.

Nothing, all kinds of nothing, is real.

 

[malakaix]

Nothing, all kinds of nothing, is real.

I strongly agree.

I actually found this very difficult to understand with psychedelics because they can be quite convincing of leading you towards something objective, it was actually through meditation that i realized nothing..

 

[cosmicjoke]

^Really good post in general there



Agreed. One of the greatest 'revelations' for me came on a combo of mushrooms, DPT and on the tail end of changa when I started getting caught up in fear and edging towards panic; I was sure something cataclysmic was occurring, that I was never going to be 'normal' again, that life was utterly over for me, forever, when I slipped, for a moment, into a really sober, lucid, rational state- I realised that psychedelics create a powerful but ultimately fictitious experience. By fictitious, I don't mean worthless or fake, but moreso a state of extreme absorption in imagination and hyper-suggestibility. I realised that the fear I was feeling was based on an exagerrated, primal response to a threat which was only as powerful as my own imagination could make it, because the threat existed completely in my imagination, and I could control my imagination; in many ways, I am my imagination. It was a brief moment of utter clarity that deepened into a euphoria that hasn't yet truly subsided.

The realisation that I create my own world, both the joys and sorrows, has stuck with me. If I didn't believe it, I would never have been able to fix the negative things in my life, mainly addiction to opiates and benzos and the constant rehashing of early life trauma. I didn't need to 'fix' these things by enduring something incredibly painful, if I just accepted the pain and reminded myself that all the rest of it was no more real then the ephemeral outlook a psychedelic may provide.

Its really not much of a revelation; I'm pretty sure most people realise this, but for me, to spontaneously think in this (what felt like) perfectly logical, rational and honest way, and literally feel my pain subside immediately because I willed it to; its changed my life and time and time again proves to be the only method I can now deem correct in terms of functioning in this world. Its within and without everything I do, the knoweldge, the pure and untained KNOWING, that life is almost entirely an internal construct that can be made to BE anything. You just have to believe in that and, because its true, believing in it is easy. In that sense, life is like a dream and the fact that it may be real or may not be real is almost irrelevant to what actually IS.

Nothing, all kinds of nothing, is real.

ive had a scary encounter with changa my self where i drove my self into a state of pure panic. and every moment was as long as the life age of the earth, but the panic was not converted into action, i did not confirm my feelings with action but in a way continued to feel them without concentrating on how long its going to last or how long it has been. i just embraced the panicy feelings and accepted them without giving them any ground or connection what so ever to other thoughts that were swirling in my head. the shadow of darkness was lifted as if i had been destined to experience this bizzare panic to be rewarded with ultimate bliss. i felt as if it was the storm of purification, like the boiling of a chemical to separate it from impurities. it was "pure". this may sound like fiction but it was real to me. i think apart from set and setting, the actual intention plays a vital influence on the course of one's journey, after all it is a journey.. a journey of the self.

i dont know about dpt but i heard that it could be intense at large doses. will try to get my hands on it!

 

[huolesoh]

do pants have souls?

no i wouldn't say souls but i do think objects can have "personalities" so to speak by their sensory properties... for example an elegant and emotionally cold metal teapot, or a cosy, lovable thick cotton hat, a looming and ominous dark wooden clunky wardrobe etc etc

 

[Shroomanator]

Lol I don't want to be a brain in a vat anymore!