harm reduction questions concerning amphetamine and mdma in the same night/ next day

[joe456]

It seems to be the general consensus here that mixing speed with MDMA is very neurotoxic since the dopamine damages the serotonin receptors. I've heard that this is also one of the main reasons redosing is so much worse as well, the serotonin receptors are in a state where they are extra fragile to the bombardment of dopamine that comes from the extra MDMA that doesn't have much more serotonin to release (please correct me if this isn't the simplified explanation). Anyway my questions are...

a. How much would it reduce harm if, rather than combining, the amphetamine was taken once the mdma had completely worn off and a little bit of time had been given for recovery?
b. How much time would be necessary for this effect to be significant? (really hoping a few hours will at least help a bit lol)
c. When would amphetamine be back to being about as bad as any other time, would the entire period one could get "midweek blues" have to be over?
c. If one dose of mdma was to be consumed during a night of amphetamine use would it be less bad to have it at the end of the night rather than give speed to a brain already recovering from MDMA?

The rest is just my potential plans and times the dilemmas apply so only continue reading if u can be bothered lol.

I was thinking of maybe having a 100mg line of MDMA about 3 or 4pm when a few mates will be gathering and probably chilling around a bonfire getting back to a mates house a few hours later (the others have work or other commitments so will just be the 2 of us for the night) and having some sort of chilled comedown combination (probably hash, some sort of opiate and maybe an etizolam) which would leave me feeling very nice, despite having come down from the mandy a good few hours ago. However I definitely would wanna be back in party mode for midnight so was thinking that maybe 10 minutes before I'd have a line of speed and start drinking However, if this wouldn't be a lot less harmful than having the speed first and then taking the mandy just before the countdown I would rather do it that way around since I love the combo and speed lasts much longer for me than most people. While the first plan sounds like it would make for a very fun night, I would only do it that way around if I thought it would avoid some of the harm of taking the mandy while on the speed. Since even a small dose of speed in the morning still has me feeling it until I sleep, I don't think I could avoid the neurotoxicity of the combo by trying to wait for the speed to wear off before having MDMA.
Also I'm guessing the times I do the combo, having the mandy last is probably less bad than subjecting my brain to a bomb of mandy before a speed binge (also it stops the rest of the speed being as good once its worn off, while a small bomb of mandy at the end of a night on speed finishes the night beautify IME (assuming every1 else is going strong, wouldn't wanna be frantically trying to engage people in conversation who were coming down and just wanting to mong out lol).
I'm very interested to see if anyone has anything to say about question c (speed during the few days later), never heard it spoken about. Not sure if this is because serotonin is low but the neurons have recovered enough for dopamine not to cause any more damage than usual, of if we just have a tendency to think about replacing serotonin and feeling better during that time and wrongly consider any potential damage to be over. Guessing I'm not the only person who hasn't thought twice about having some amphetamine to be able to be productive the Monday after a heavy weekend lol.

Wishing everyone a very happy and safe new years eve

 

[FargonPsyMind]

Do the speed first, then when you wanna get higher do the mdma until you fall asleep. Coming down off m is harder to stay awake and idk if speed would help

 

[MocCozmiK]

I suppose do the speed first. I agree with the post above mine.
If you want to prevent neurotoxicity you should check out this article regarding MDMA and amphetamine

https://medium.com/@pharmakeus/mema...-effective-adjunct-to-19757a1bbcd6#.f9xivziok

 

[joe456]

Yeah, while I've only done this twice, MDMA is a beautiful end to a little speed binge. Both times have been during the day at parties that were still going strong from the night before. Surprisingly calm as well. Btw this was with a small dose of MDMA and I was nowhere near pushing the limits with amphetamine, pretty sure this would have gone badly if I'd tried to push my limits. While I've only done things the other way round once I did lose energy when the last of the MDMA was out of my system. Defineately felt like I had a comedown to sleep off but I still manged to keep going for a while
While I've only skim read the article so far (waiting for when I'm more alert lol) it sounds very intersting and I can tell I'm going to spend a while getting my head around it. While I'm sure I'll have a better idea once I've properly taken it all in and researched the subject it would be very intersting to hear if anyone has experience of using memantine (or a similar compound). At first glance it sounds like it might decrease the desired effects as well as neurotoxicity. While there are definately things I need to research before making any inferences with confidence the quote bellow makes me think the high might be decreased.
'We investigated the effects of nitrous oxide and xenon, which possess antagonistic action at the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor, on brain slices ex vivo on amphetamine-induced changes in carrier-mediated and KCl-evoked dopamine release in the NAcc, and in vivo on amphetamine-induced locomotor sensitization.'
Would be awesome if nitros oxide in normal recreational amounts could reduce neurotoxicity, will be so happy if it looks like it can after looking into the details

 

[JWills20]

How much would it reduce harm if, rather than combining, the amphetamine was taken once the mdma had completely worn off and a little bit of time had been given for recovery?

Of course the longer you wait between the two the less additive they will be and so the chances of negative effects reduce. But remember that MDMA/amp pills have been and still are taken pretty regularly so the direct combination of the two can be gotten away with. Sure it is not safe practice but it's also not the end of the world if the doses of the two are appropriate. If I was to do the combination I'd probably do it the way you suggest here taking the amphetamine a few hours after the MDMA.

How much time would be necessary for this effect to be significant? (really hoping a few hours will at least help a bit lol)

Who knows really. Residual amounts of MDMA last hours after the actual experience and combining stimulants typically causes larger effects than either can alone so dosage is more important than time in my opinion.

When would amphetamine be back to being about as bad as any other time, would the entire period one could get "midweek blues" have to be over?

Another question that can't really be answered. MDMA recovery can take days so I'd hazard a guess that any 'hard' stimulant use during the recovery period could cause more detrimental effects. So if you wanted to take speed at an absolute 'baseline' it would probably have to be days after MDMA. But, how significant that increase is on the comedown in the days following will probably depend on things like: food intake, sleep & hydration. Again dosage will play a big role. Combining speed and MDMA will probably keep you awake for 15-24hrs and this sleep deprivation can contribute to worse comedowns.

If one dose of mdma was to be consumed during a night of amphetamine use would it be less bad to have it at the end of the night rather than give speed to a brain already recovering from MDMA?

Not sure whether it matters what way round you take them. I would say though that if you take the amphetamine first then the effects of MDMA will likely be much larger than vice versa. I regard MDMA as a much more intense and stronger drug than regular amphetamine and so would rather come-up not on amphetamine. Anxious come-ups are never fun and can last a while if you get stuck in a loop. Small amounts of amp on the tail-end of a roll is probably the safest and most enjoyable way of doing it.

Since even a small dose of speed in the morning still has me feeling it until I sleep, I don't think I could avoid the neurotoxicity of the combo by trying to wait for the speed to wear off before having MDMA

Feeling a drug and experiencing neurotoxicity are two different things. The dangers of neurotoxicity with MDMA are largely overplayed at recreational doses such as the 100mg you intend to take. I think that unless you're going to drop large amounts of amp and not remain hydrated ignoring your bodies signs that it's overheating then the combo still shouldn't cause significant neurotoxicity. Sure you might get negative effects and a worse comedown but these aren't like to be related to neurotoxicity and instead something more trivial such as maybe serotonin depletion, exhaustion, sleep deprivation or dehydration.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Missing sleep would probably be the biggest factor for neurotoxicity with this combo, definitely take anti oxidants. Cortisol is a factor concerning repeated use of this combo or amphetamine.