Harm Minimisation - Alcohol - Enough is Enough

[Baker]

Alcahol has a good way of making it know when one is at their limit.
Other such drugs as MDMA and the drugs often mixed in have a way of lacking that nausea affect. When people take alcahol in excess, nausea kicks in as the body tries to reject the drug (usually sucsessful) what happens when someone gets way to high off mdma and instead of throwing up lays down and doesnt drink any water. Usually alcahol simply can't be drunk to a huge extent over a short period of time, it is difficult and can sent back up by the gagging mecanism. Swallowing 20 pills in a minute is a far easier task, the effects may not hit for another hour (although will have sped up considerably with a higher dose)by which point its too late. Many people see alcahol as legal and therefore safe, they dont pay attention to their limits or body, they simply just want to get fucked, vomiting is usually a clear indication when enough is enough. If pills were to be made legal, they would probably be combined and the usualy "lets get fucked up" would remain and the lethal combinations of mixed "legal" drugs would begin, maybe ignoring contradictions of using with MAOI's and SSRI's as well as possible dangers of hyperthermia dehydration etc. Laws such as 18* wouldn't restrict teenagers (when you look at alcahol). Of course here people are concerned about harm minimisation, but can you honestly that everyone sees the same concerns about abusing alcahol. I think there should be more decriminilization of this drug and may be used as for small prescription couselling. Im not sure, but i do agree mdma legalization would solve many problems but i think they'd have to find some halfway drug that fits in between reducing violence etc. And like mentioned the closest to becoming legalized seems the most appropriate at this time, being weed
Health is a concern to every individual although to a lesser extent in some, replaced by the concern about getting high.

 

[Tahn]

I agree that alcohol is essentially a self-limiting drug. Drink too much and you generally vomit and/or pass out; it's really quite difficult to OD on alcohol. Having said that, plenty of people still manage to, ending up in hospital being stomach-pumped or just plain dead. How safe would it be to introduce something as potent as MDMA to these sorts of people?

I do think MDMA should be legalised, partly because I believe prohibition does more harm than good and mostly because I think informed adults should be free to do whatever they want to themselves, but it's pretty clear that it couldn't be treated the same way as alcohol. Perhaps you should have to pass a "dickhead" test before being allowed to roll.

No, better still, let's just legealise everything and let Darwin do the rest!

 

[shal]

I agree.

Alcohol, use it, abuse it, loose it!

It's one of these drugs/depressants that can turn you 20 different ways, and you never know what reaction someone is going to have. It can click you in an instant to do the most insane unimaginable things!

Like any drug, take care, use wisely, use responsibly.

shals :D

 

[villz]

as far as alcohol goes:
its the actions of the few ruining it for everyone else. i don't take drugs as much as i used to, simply because i couldn't be fucked dealing with come downs, and not enjoying being spaced out for the few days after a bender.

alcohol on the other hand, i enjoy regularly, sometimes in moderation, sometimes (very much) not, and i never find myself getting violent or vandalising property. i wake up with little to no hangover due to its regular use, and find my cognition limited very little, if at all.
alcohol is a fantastic solo + social drug, with consequences that are well understood and sale/intake that can be easily monitored. there are countless reasons why alcohol is still legal, but i can't be assed going into much detail, so i'll keep it short;

a) most importantly, it has been around for hundreds of years and our society has adapted to take alcohol and its use into our culture and of most cultures in the world. prime examples are: nightclubs, bbq's, wine + food matching, pubs, bottle shops, sale + regulation (as well as taxing) of alcohol. children are encouraged by society to drink at a early age (whether directly, from advertising + exposure, or indirectly such as peer groups) and alcohol can be used in many different social environments.
b) the government makes FAAAARRR too much money from the sale of alcohol and licensing, and its related industries (poker machines, restaurants + food sector etc) to seriously consider outlawing the drug.
c) imagine the outcry if the government announced it was going to outlaw alcohol.
d) there are many others, but my motivation for typing them out is waning... so i'll just summarise now.

the issue of outlawing alcohol (and legalising mdma, which is another essay in itself) is far more complex than simply neuron damage/ abuse potential or some idiots getting in fight at a festival. there are many hundreds of factors to consider, and for this reason, i dont believe that alcohol will ever be criminalised.
similarly, there are many hundreds of factors that are related to the legalisation + sale of mdma, or any other drug, the most important possibly is social acceptance, and i don't believe that mdma use is accepted as widely as would be required (or that we in the drug community believe it too be). time IS on our side though, and i do believe that one day, possibly in a generation or two, that softer drugs like pot and pills will one day be decriminalised and possibly legalised.

 

[res]

Alcahol has a good way of making it know when one is at their limit.
Other such drugs as MDMA and the drugs often mixed in have a way of lacking that nausea affect. When people take alcahol in excess, nausea kicks in as the body tries to reject the drug (usually sucsessful) what happens when someone gets way to high off mdma and instead of throwing up lays down and doesnt drink any water. Usually alcahol simply can't be drunk to a huge extent over a short period of time, it is difficult and can sent back up by the gagging mecanism. Swallowing 20 pills in a minute is a far easier task, the effects may not hit for another hour (although will have sped up considerably with a higher dose)by which point its too late.

There would be some fairly easy ways to combat such a thing.

Firstly, the MDMA doesn't necessarily have to be in pill form. Why can't it be in a liquid form with a chemical that induces vomiting when a point is hit in its consumption (same concept as methylated spririts.) Or perhaps in a liquid form that fills the users stomach quickly, making it difficult for someone to choke down several bottles. It could even be administered by 'Bar-Keeps' exclusively, judging someones state and cutting off supply at will.

Hell they could even distribute doses of 5-HT, Vitamins and Minerals in doses of MDMA to try and minimize damage done.

However I don't believe MDMA should be legalised as the abuse potential is way too high. Theres nothing stopping someone from binging 24/7, being up for weeks on end in seratoninless dopaminergic delerium. Atleast with alcohol, the user needs to fall asleep (passes out) at some point, and the body has time to atleast start recovering before the next onslaught.

 

[Tahn]

However I don't believe MDMA should be legalised as the abuse potential is way too high. Theres nothing stopping someone from binging 24/7, being up for weeks on end in seratoninless dopaminergic delerium. Atleast with alcohol, the user needs to fall asleep (passes out) at some point, and the body has time to atleast start recovering before the next onslaught.

But the abuse potential exists regardless of the legality of the drug. Prohibition does not stop people from using drugs, responsibly or otherwise. People are already binging on MDMA and other drugs -- all prohibition does is restrict access to potentially life-saving information about their drug use.

Obviously, legalisation may well lead to much greater incidence of abuse. Although the de facto legalisation of pot in the Netherlands hasn't lead to runaway abuse of that particular drug, it could easily be a different story for other drugs (like MDMA) or in a different culture. We won't really know till we try it... if we try it.

I think our society has drifted too far from the principle of personal responsibility: don't worry, the government/council/company will protect you, and if they don't, hell, just sue 'em to kingdom come.

People should have the right -- and the responsibility -- to look after themselves.