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Harm Minimisation - Alcohol - Enough is Enough

T

tranzystate

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
49
Any one who visited the Perth Skyshow fireworks on Australia Day this year will fully understand the negative effects that alcohol has on our society. There was a massive amount of violence as well as other anti-social drunken behavior.

As there is a state election coming up, the Western Australian Government has finally decided to tackle this problem with a media campaign. Part of this is the website www.enoughisenough.com.au . You should check it out.

I noticed an advertisement whilst reading the newspaper last Saturday asking people to visit this website and share with the Government ideas that could be implemented to mitigate alcohol related problems. Thats when this wonderful idea popped into my head. A possible solution to this problem comes in the form of a little pill and its called MDMA. I wonder if any bluelighter would be brave enough to suggest to the Government that people under the influence of MDMA don't go destroying property and getting in fights. Therefore the desired outcome of this campaign can be achieved by giving people legal access to recreational drugs other than alcohol, ie MDMA.

But that would be too simple wouldn't it, a drug that makes people love each other should be banned, another that can make people violent should be easily available, it only makes sense!!!!
 
I totally agree that alcohol has many negative effects on society and if the government can ban something like marijuana then so should alcohol as they are about as harmfull as each other. However mdma kills of quite a large amount of braincells along with percieved neurotoxicity, a government will not be allowed to introduced such a drug because of such dangers. Ofcoarse these dangers can be minimilized by using it in moderation and such like most of us and then maybe it would not be as bad as a pissup every week however if mdma was legal then would be no way to control the dosage and it would be abused and lead to many problems.

If anything should be legalised inplace on alcohol its mull , simple as that , hell we wont have people fighting at our skyshow instead to busy eating cake.

Btw i am pro mdma , it just unreasonable to expect the government to even think about legalising this drug at this point in time.

Take care
Joe :D
 
joe, i think you've got it mixed up. mdma does not kill braincells. it can cause downregulation of receptor sites and may cause damage to axons, but even that is unproven.

alcohol on the other hand, is a proven neurotoxin. while it doesn't exactly kill brain cells, it does destroy the dendrites that allow the cells to communicate with each other. that means they're non-functional, which is almost the same as being dead.
 
are you sure ecstasy does not kill brain cells? , so taking this basically would not lower someones performance on a academic scale unless emotional issues came into it?.
 
Let's not get off topic here - the neurotoxicity of MDMA is still unknown so it's kinda a moot point :)

Frankly, I think the idea of replacing one drug type with another is rather myopic. While MDMA does not have the violence associated with it that alcohol does, there are negative effects of the drug, such as depression, that are still unknown quantities.

The ideal situation for overcoming binge drinking is to provide social enrichment, IMO - more activities where alcohol is not necessary. I come from Perth myself and worked as a bar pig for about 5 years, so I've thought about this a lot... I left Perth because, as a young person, I was bored senseless and found that drugs and alcohol were the only surefire way to counter the boredom.

I think the reasons binge drinking is a significant problem in Perth are:

1) Restricted access: 24 hour drinking only available at the airport and casino, thus promoting binge drinking during licensing hours.

2) Cultural and geographical factors: Perth provides fewer alternative activities (IMHO) to drinking than other cities. Drinking is culturally indoctrinated also - the pub culture that comes with a small town has grown as Perth has grown, instead of diversifying into other cultural activities as in a less geographically isolated city.

I won't waffle on, though I could, but I just want to say that I've had friends kill themselves from depression excacerbated by illicit drug use (including E), as well as killing themselves due to alcohol induced stupidity. Substitution of one drug for another is unlikely to work unless the social causes of drug (licit or illicit) are addressed.
 
Erm... please realise it's not neccesarily the drug (alcohol) that makes people do stupid things like vandalise or destroy public property, get into fights, etc...

I think it more-so has something to do with the person abusing the drug at the timem what crowd they're with, current mental-state, etc...

I love to get absolutely drunk on occasion and I can tell you now, that I don't go around trying to pick fights with people, that doesn't say that I haven't seen it though.

As for MDMA making all people huggey and lovey dovey, etc... heh, as said up above, I think it all comes down to the person's nature. I have been to plenty of raves and seen those under the influence of pills (MDMA) go on a "punching spree".

This is my perception on things... "It's not the drug, it's the person that influences the drug, that influences the person."
 
Alcohol made me steal a 8 foot pot plant from a Hotel last night and throw it at a nightclub I got kicked out of earlier for smashing the bathroom up after some chick I sleezily hit on rejected me and I ran out of money and lossed the last game of pool.... it also made me yell rape in a cops ear.... ok, maybe alcohol and me dont mix.. But no other drugs make me like that, and im never like that sober.

On MDMA (except for one experience, n that was protecting a girl from this big aboriginal guy).. the only violence I would cause is accidently bumping into someone on the dance floor as i spin around in circles while peaking in ecstacy.
 
Alcohol is without a doubt a drug that should NOT be legal. Were it to only now have been invented, there is no way in hell it would pass the law-making process. But that said, it is so intrinsic to nearly all societies that to expect any drastic legalisation changes is almost laughable. Unfortunately, alcohol got in before recreational drugs were so heavily demonised, if some other drug had gained such massive appeal earlier in the picture it too would probably still be around and rockin, too hard to get rid of.

Unfortunately these days, nearly all governments ban every recreational substance without a second glance, which seems very wrong to me, as it's basically saying 'drugs are bad' without any question as to WHY!? It's the idea of drugs now, not the drugs themselves.

I don't see that there will be ANY change in the behaviours of drunk people any time in the forseeable future. As long as alcohol is freely available in any amount to any person over the age of 18, people will abuse it, campaigns to try and change people's viewpoints will do sweet FA. Alcohol needs to be regulated somehow, but it will take one ballsy politician to make it happen, and to be honest i can't say i've ever seen a ballsy politician ;)
 
Interesting thread? why? I had my jaw broken at the Perth skyshow in 1998. I have 4 swrews and a permanant plate fixed to the right side of my jaw because 5 drunken dickheads tryed to pick a fight with my mate and I stepped in. I spent 4 days in hospital because one of the cunts smashed me in the face with an empty bottle.

Should grog be illegal?, going by the governments stance on every other type of recreational drug, yes.

So what if these 5 arseholes were on MDMA, would I have spent 4 days in hospital? no way. I had a Yellow Panda last night and commented to a skater that he should be wearing a helmet when riding down the sidewalk, to which he nearly smacked his board over my head, I was with a friend who is a 2nd degree maui thia kick boxer who was pilling with me say " dont start a fight dude because I cant fight when I am in this state".

It is sooo ironic that the government allow alcohol and ban everything else, not to mention them allowing tobacco to be legal, but then again the 2 make for a good taxable drug.

So should MDMA be made legal? fuck yeah!!! MDMA makes me feel awesome and alive, maybe it kills a few braincells but then again alcohol destroys the liver and tobacco is addictive and causes cancer so why not make it legal? Unfortunately society will never allow this sort of drug to become legal, jesus, we cant even get mull decriminalized in every state.
 
not to mention that a lot of people, were mdma available legally at the clubs and football games would take a lot of pills, but they'd still probably drink heavily as well, as the drinking is so heavily ingrained as part of the experience. that's just asking for a public health disaster.
 
^^^
but then again, everyone knows their limit when it comes to drinking and drugs, but nearly every time I get on the turps I get sooo smashed I spew and lose half my memory of the night. If they sold MDMA legally all they would have to do is provide the correct dosage or strength of the pill, just like they provide on the side of a bottle of spirits. Sure people might endulge too much but then again how many people drink too much alcohol then they should and get very sick?
 
dont get me wrong as i totally agree and have the belief that we should be undergoing massive drug reform in this country, however i do wish to point out one thing, that is we live in a democracy and this means that the minority will never get anything they ask for. This also means that MDMA will be looked upon as a negative in society untill the majority has tried it. The answer to this problem? simple, encourage everyone you know who has never had MDMA to try it atleast once, i have heard the words "this is amazing, everyone should have this all the time" come from some of people i have been around on their first experience, even some people who took a lot of convincing and had very anti drug views before their first pill.

However on the flip side there is always room for abuse when it comes to drugs, regardless of their toxicity or addictivity and there will always be a potential for a negative impact on society, sometimes i think that maybe the blackmarket is all we need for our drugs, i mean shit we already pay enough tax's dont we? ;)

The only bad thing about the black market at the moment is the difficulty the back yard manufacturers are having getting supplies into our country with all the customs crack downs with all the war and terrorism in the world, anyone else notice a substancial drop in quality from even the most reliable sources lately?

anyway i got a bit off topic there, i will end this rant :)
 
But then what about when people have too many pills and you end up with a bunch of people suffering from pyschosis. What damage will these people do?
 
Sllip said:
But then what about when people have too many pills and you end up with a bunch of people suffering from pyschosis. What damage will these people do?
Click to expand...

I am sure they would be a minority. Just go out on any thursday, friday or saturday and see how many dickheads are running amok drunk off their heads starting fights and damaging property. Its all about tolerance, and I dont think people pilling are going to cause to much trouble.
 
my innerself said:
^^^
but then again, everyone knows their limit when it comes to drinking and drugs, but nearly every time I get on the turps I get sooo smashed I spew and lose half my memory of the night. If they sold MDMA legally all they would have to do is provide the correct dosage or strength of the pill, just like they provide on the side of a bottle of spirits. Sure people might endulge too much but then again how many people drink too much alcohol then they should and get very sick?
Click to expand...

Everyone does not know their limit.
 
wazza:- That is one mighty damned good signature, I must say. Why??? Because it is so true!!

I don't think that alcohol should be illegal at all... maybe we should start testing people's stupidity (as wazza's siggo reads) and make it completely illegal to be a dickwadd whilst hitting the turps.

I mean... what good is it going to do, taking away something that alot of people enjoy (including myself) just because people are irresponsible and can't monitor themselves to the point of thinking, "Shit!! Enough's enough!! I would hate to make a dick of myself!!"??

Make those who get abusive on drugs and/or alcohol illegal. Down with "The People" I say!! :)
 
in regards to questions of why alcohol/big T is legal and illicits are not:

everything evolves in a sociohistorical context: alcohol and tobacco are legal because they have been around/used longer than any of the current illicit party drugs. Think about the people who have been producing/manufacturing these sorts of drugs, how long they have been doing it, how wealthy and comfortable they have become on their income. It's basic nature to want to protect what you have, especially if it's a multi-billion dollar business empire. Marijuana was demonized to control immigration in the USA, and so that WRH and DuPont could remain rich, as was opium to control chinese immigrants. Very rarely, is the actual reason of a drug being banned because of it's health effects, just look at tobacco for example! even salvia, in australia, was rushed through after some dickhead journalist sensationalised it as the next big drug craze. big companies, church groups, and the fundamentalist right probably got scared, "oh no it'll cut into profits, i'm not goign to get my corporate fatcat bonus" / "Oh no, this is goign to cause the moral degredation of society as we know it". Calls were made. BAM - banned. They didn't even get the chemical name right for salvatorin A and used information from william white's salvia FAQ in the actual legislation.

Legislating anything is not a good idea (cept maybe nukes and small arms): it's the people, the society and the culture you live in that determines what goes on.

I personally only had a problem with alcohol that it gives me a giant headache the next morning.
:)
nick
 
My purpose of starting this thread was not to promote the idea that MDMA should be society's drug of choice rather than alcohol, but rather to point out and promote discussion regarding the discrepancies regarding the chemicals the Government permits us to consume, and those they don't.

I think that everyone contributed well and the result is that the issue of prohibition of those chemicals that we all love so much is a complex one affected greatly by gossip and media hype. I think that zaki summed it up by saying that the best way to change peoples perception is to get them to give it a go.

At the end of the day there are always dickheads in society. I know people I went to highschool with who consume large amounts of drugs and are heading towards a life of crime. I believe that even if you removed the drugs these people would still be dysfunctional members of society as they are selfish and just generally not nice people. A lot of the people who are dickheads when they consume alcohol would probably be dickheads if they consumed other drugs just because they are dickheads. My inference is that there is no relationship between drugs consumed and dickheadness. However I still live in hope that if dickheads try MDMA they might open up their minds and see themselves as they truely are. Maybe an intense MDMA therapy session ie pre 1985 is in order.

Did anyone actually reply to www.enoughisenough.com.au with regards to the difference in behavior of drunk dickheads compared to loved up ravers?
 
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