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Happiness or Pleasure

lost weekend

lost weekend

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 9, 2023
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Should happy/happiness be something that we should give up trying to attain ,can it ever be achieved or is it a general word we use to describe other emotions like joy,excitement, contentment etc which are all fleeting
Is pleasure the only real emotion we and other animals feel that makes us feel "happy"
Pleasure it's self could be described as a real emotion ,an act of kindness to another person for example which releases dopamine etc
Is it a selfish emotion that can result in positive human behaviour
 
The way I see it is happiness being either yes or no. A state that isn't really measurable, but it either is or is not. With my own personal understanding of the word, I am "happy" with something if it is my preference.

So if I'm sitting on a couch and someone asks me if I am happy, I'd think about this specific moment and say "yes, I am happy with what I am doing right now, considering my current situation".

I think it depends on what expectations we have for ourselves. And how satisfied we are with our situation relative to those expectations.
 
I guess what I'm trying to understand is if we should just be content with the very small feelings of plesure we may get from sometimes the simplist of things
I'm sure its been the case that people gain the most plesure from actually looking forward to a holiday rather than the holiday it's self
" it was good but im glad to be home again"
 
streaM Freak said:
Yeah I think we should.

The "me first" and "give me more" phrases we use as kids are not supposed to carry into adulthood. But often it is encouraged for us to stay self-centered, because most things with a price tag on them appeal to our vanity.
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I agree completely but we have all been taught at such a young age that happiness in life is achievable, its not
I don't believe animals ,mammals especially can feel happiness ,most face a daily struggle for survival, but they must feel pleasure

Really the word should stop being used to describe someone's state of mind its far to broad and covers several different emotions
 
lost weekend said:
Should happy/happiness be something that we should give up trying to attain ,can it ever be achieved or is it a general word we use to describe other emotions like joy,excitement, contentment etc which are all fleeting
Is pleasure the only real emotion we and other animals feel that makes us feel "happy"
Pleasure it's self could be described as a real emotion ,an act of kindness to another person for example which releases dopamine etc
Is it a selfish emotion that can result in positive human behaviour
Click to expand...

Sadly I think happiness is just misunderstood and we’ve been given a false perception of it.

It’s not really a constant thing rather than just part of the emotional range. It’s absolutely possible to have a life where it’s frequent but not all the time.

I do think I’ve had more success with being grateful with my circumstances and being content with what I have, and so forth.

But I have a lot of chemical imbalances lol so idk.

I do think often it’s just words for sensations.
 
Interesting to hear you both talk about it being able to fluctuate. I should have prefaced by saying I use a mood tracker with only 5 options and am not a person who is the most in touch with my emotions 😂

Well this is why we have conversations. I'll sit back and read more than talk on this one.
 
streaM Freak said:
Interesting to hear you both talk about it being able to fluctuate. I should have prefaced by saying I use a mood tracker with only 5 options and am not a person who is the most in touch with my emotions 😂

Well this is why we have conversations. I'll sit back and read more than talk on this one.
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I have many emotions, but often can’t control them or even identify them, I’m only qualified from a experience of being a total nutcase 😂
 
I disagree that the "me factor" is something you loose in order to be happy. If anything, for me, putting myself first above all else and others make it possible to love and give of myself to others. If I weren't sure of who or what I am, I cannot give the way that is needed.

As far as defining happiness that depends on your interpretation and expectations of what happiness means to you. Being content to me means I am happy, no need to look further, at peace with myself and my surroundings.
Feeling joy can be described as happiness, happiness can be shared, however, finding things funny does not necessarily mean happiness, nor does laughter.
 
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Do you mean 'Euphoria or happiness'?

Because it seems that apart from the psychedelics and entactogens consumed occassionally, all a drug can ever do is to produce euphoria which ironically makes the user less happy as it fools the brain into thinking that euphoric is a natural state. It can be, but our bodies only supply dopamine as part of the reward system.

Hence everything from gambling to skydiving can produce euphoria. But after that first 'high', the brain will simply adjust (homeostasis) so chasing that first 'high' is the very definition of addiction. Repeating the same process again and again expecting a different outcome.
 
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euphoria is an interesting state of mind in which it stimulates pleasure receptacles based on chemical compounds rather than the body/mind generating an authentic response from a natural reaction to being happy. To tell the difference I think body and mind generates happiness on their own accord. This may be interpreted as pleasure, chemically induced pleasure/happiness has no substance as body and mind did not produce it, another term for this I am reminded of Frank Zappa's song plastic people
 
We are all different. I find all DAT-seletive ligands to be extremely dysphoric.

For me, it feels like being lied to. Like someone else lying when you KNOW they are lying. But worse, because it's me lying to myself.

I also find it extremely shallow. As if I'm in a thin plastic bubble so fragile that I can poke a finger straight through it. Anybody claiming that I just needed to take more should know I tried that once, it just got worse.

But I don't judge others for consuming anything they want to. The fifth freedom should be a fundamental human right. If nothing else, pragmatically, illegal drugs in themselves don't destory lives, it's the fact that they are illegal that destroy lives.

Now I'm not a total idiot. Just as some alcohol users go on to become alcoholics, so will all the other drugs that are currently illegal. But I don't trust US figures. I suggest about 1% of drinkers go on to become alcoholics and I honestly believe that if all drugs were legal, that percentage would hold true for other drugs.

I knew a Russian chemist who made methadone. In Russia substitution therapy is rare but if all drugs were legal, if someone decides they have been over indulging in heroin, they can simply buy the much cheaper methadone.

Parentheral administration IS a risk factor but if legal and sold at the prices paid by the NHS (for example), 56 x 120mg oxycodone tablets costs £114.38 i.e. £2.04 per pill. So users need not use parentheral routes as if they wish to, they can simply buy two pills. Because when people cross the 'needle barrier', cost is almost always the major driver.
 
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Are we still talking about happiness or pleasure? There was a shift in conversation perhaps because you were relating personal experience with specific drug/alcohol use, availability, costs and laws that govern availability? Some things you mentioned I have no experience with, on that note, alcohol and or any substance for that matter increases or decreases moods, happiness, sadness, etc. Although these may produce mood symptoms, they are real nonetheless.
 
Happiness is a slow, incremental process. There is even a school of philosphy (Epicurians) who taught that the highest good is pleasure, defined as the absence of physical pain and mental disturbance (ataraxia). They advocated a simple life, friendship, and the removal of fear. Specifically fear of the gods and of death.

Hedonism is the persuit of euphoria, not happiness.

But the fact that the Epicurians actually stated a long list of things that had to be the case to follow their philosophy seems to demonstrate that their persuit of pleasure could well be at the cost of unhappiness in others. So it's quite a selfish form of philosophy and presumes that followers are indifferent to the needs of others.

I would argue that if you can ignore the needs of others, that is at odds with true happiness.
 
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