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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

halcion vs. seconal

F

filthygerms

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
78
alright, well anyways, i have insane treatment resistant insomnia....

last night i might have slept 15 minutes, or it might just be a false memory.

my mind feels fucked up and worn down.

im currently on halcion .25mgs, but after taking it for about 2 weeks it let to extreme paradoxical effects.

i had to double my dose, and now even that wont touch me. its miserable. honestly i wish i never had halcion prescribed, it only made my xanax weaker, and gave me the most extreme bouts of rebound anxiety and insomnia.

i have probably slept for about 2 hours in the past 5 days.

my eyes hurt, i always feel dirty, and i think i might be losing my mind.

im going to go to the doctor and get off this halcion....

Anyways, i heard one option was seconal...

Its supossed to work for years on end, without losing efficacy or having odd effects....



What the fuck am i supossed to do?

This shit is starting to seriously effect my life and well being....


I dont need a speech or a lecture, i need stone hard conjectures on a chemical only basis.


This shit is tearing me up on the inside.

Here are a few options i have found so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secobarbital
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutethimide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_oxybate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amobarbital
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloral_hydrate
 
I took Seconal in the late 70's early 80's for insomnia and anxiety. It works for insomnia for about a month then I needed a doseage increase. That works for a while except Seconal has a ceiling dose. I don't remember what it was but it's not very high. Plus reds are a bitch to get off of. It makes benzos look easy.
As far as Chloral Hydrate, I have been prescribed this in liquid and gel tabs. It works ok at 1 gram hs. The drawback for me is it really tears my stomach up bad!! The relief of insomnia is far outweighed by the stomach disorders and headaches from the hangover.
The one hypnotic that truly worked for me is Placidyl. I don't think it is even on the market in the US anymore. I may be wrong. It came in gel caps 500mg and 750mg. Very potent stuff. Best of luck to you.
 
There are tons of sleep aids out there and lots of threads on them around here. Can you list what drugs you have tried so far and their effects, so we get a better idea of what to recommend / rule out?

I also have chronic insomnia, although not as bad as yours. You might want to look into Zyprexa, if you haven't already. Out of a dozen or two sedatives I've been on, it wins hands down. I can't really compare it to triazolam, as that did almost nothing for me even up to 2 mg, but I'll say that it makes temazepam look like diphenhydramine. It sticks around for a while, though, so expect a next-day hangover in the short term.

I don't know if this applies to you, but IME there are 3 separate components necessary for initiating sleep. One is tiredness: if you aren't adequately tired, you won't sleep. Second, thoughts: if your mind is always racing and refuses to shut down, you'll never drift off, however tired you may be. The third is a little hard to describe, maybe sleepiness would be the best word for it. Basically, you need to be willing to fall asleep, on a subconscious level. These are necessary, but not individually sufficient requirements for falling asleep. All 3 are needed, and different drugs work in varying degrees on each. If any of this sounds familiar, see if you can identify what's lacking.
 
Guys,

Diphenhydramine works the best IMO for insomnia. I know none of you here like it, but for sleep its the best and I think more potent in inducing sleep than any other prescribed benzo/hyponic type meds. 25mg of Diphenhydramine will knock you out. Or even 50mg if you wanna have good nights sleep and it is not addictive.

Xanax (benzo). 1mg a night puts me to sleep and I feel refreshed the next morning.

But Diphenhydramine I think beats most prescribed benzos out there. Even Ambien for insomnia.
 
I remember seconal, tuinals and placidils also during the 70's . Don't hear of them prescribed much anymore at least here in the states. They were widely abused recreationally and during the 80's doctors were recommending different benzos instead of barbituates.

Talk with your doctor and let him know you're still having trouble sleeping. Are you ever manic? That would explain not being able to sleep for days. Just an idea, take the halcion right before bedtime when you're ready to sleep.

Diphenhydramine might get me to sleep for an hour or two. But I don't like the rebound sinus drip that comes with it.
 
Diphen kinda sucks for sleeping if you have insomnia imo.
Do you mean not become dependent on diphenhydramine? It can be addictive imo. Super habit forming because it's like.. "Oh, it's just benadryl!" I guess it's better than being on benzos for years. Now it just makes me anxious and depressed.
On a side note, benadryl can work as an anti-manic. For awhile I chose to take benadryl all the time over benzos\opiates\weed.

Sometimes I've broken sleeping pills in half as not directed by my pharmacists\doctor. Not encouraging this, but it was like a wave of bliss because I could just feel myself drifting away into sleep. Not to mention, I don't feel as shitty the next day from the hypnotic hangover feeling you get.

Have you tried the evil of all evils to sleep? Seroquel.
 
The.Ghost said:
There are tons of sleep aids out there and lots of threads on them around here. Can you list what drugs you have tried so far and their effects, so we get a better idea of what to recommend / rule out?

I also have chronic insomnia, although not as bad as yours. You might want to look into Zyprexa, if you haven't already. Out of a dozen or two sedatives I've been on, it wins hands down. I can't really compare it to triazolam, as that did almost nothing for me even up to 2 mg, but I'll say that it makes temazepam look like diphenhydramine. It sticks around for a while, though, so expect a next-day hangover in the short term.

I don't know if this applies to you, but IME there are 3 separate components necessary for initiating sleep. One is tiredness: if you aren't adequately tired, you won't sleep. Second, thoughts: if your mind is always racing and refuses to shut down, you'll never drift off, however tired you may be. The third is a little hard to describe, maybe sleepiness would be the best word for it. Basically, you need to be willing to fall asleep, on a subconscious level. These are necessary, but not individually sufficient requirements for falling asleep. All 3 are needed, and different drugs work in varying degrees on each. If any of this sounds familiar, see if you can identify what's lacking.
Click to expand...
Well im sure i could still get a script for seconal, ive already been through ambien 50+mgs and that made me feel wired paradoxically , as well as high dose tizanadine 24+mgs which did the trick, but i got immune to its effects rather quickly , seroquel up to 200 mgs, which worked, but made me feel like a zombie for 3 days and i have to work. I cant be lazy the whole next day or two just to get one nights sleep, i cant lose money like that.
I also tried temazepam but that was COMPLETELY uneffective, i had to dose upwards of 120mgs to even feel it, 180 would knock me out for 2 hours or so though, just like tizanadine....
When my insomnia is really peaking the way it has been this past month especially, im literally disabled to the point where even if i take all 3mgs of my xanax at once(my daily dose) the anxiety is barley scratched for 2-3 hours TOPS.

The insomnia is destroying me.

so far im thinking seconal, ghb salts, or chloral hydrate, because even if its dangerous its VERY effective from what ive read, and it ensures at least 6 hours sleep.

6 hours sleep would be SOOO fucking amazing i couldnt even put it into words...

thanks man...
T. Calderone said:
I remember seconal, tuinals and placidils also during the 70's . Don't hear of them prescribed much anymore at least here in the states. They were widely abused recreationally and during the 80's doctors were recommending different benzos instead of barbituates.

Talk with your doctor and let him know you're still having trouble sleeping. Are you ever manic? That would explain not being able to sleep for days. Just an idea, take the halcion right before bedtime when you're ready to sleep.
Click to expand...

I know he will give me seconal, this shits tearing me apart, weve already tried everything else.

Im just wondering if thats my best option.
And yes, im CONSTANTLY manic, what does that mean??
Like i cant wipe the smiles off my face im so manic its weird as hell but my body is run down, my bones and muscles ache for no apparent reason and i feel sick if i try to do anything physical.

And yeah, i know i take 1mg xanax and .25-.5mgs triazolam and put them under my tongue one at a time, and then go lay in bed...
they take about 2-3 minutes to dissolve so i take the meds about 10 minutes before i get in bed.....
that worked for a while, but after two weeks the triazolam completely stopped working and resulted in full blown insomnia, before i could occasionally get 4-5 hours every few days, now im lucky to get that in a week.

THANKS GUYS THIS HAS BEEN A TON OF HELP ALREADY!!

:)
 
Look, I read your first post and I really want you to expand your vision beyond GABAergics. Anti-psychotics and TCAs have proven to be very helpful for sleep. If you've tried all that you said my only (non-medical) conclusion would be that you need to look at other classes.
 
You obviously want Seconal or you didn't read my post. If the Halcion didn't work for long then the Seconal may and I mean may work a few nights longer. Then when it stops working you will have a bad drug to get off of. The last person I knew who was prescribed Seconal was in 1999 and the wait was 2 months for the pills.His insurance didn't cover them and they were like <snip> for 30 caps. I think Ho-Chi-Minh was correct in looking into other alternatives.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
HCandKROD said:
You obviously want Seconal or you didn't read my post. If the Halcion didn't work for long then the Seconal may and I mean may work a few nights longer. Then when it stops working you will have a bad drug to get off of. The last person I knew who was prescribed Seconal was in 1999 and the wait was 2 months for the pills.His insurance didn't cover them and they were like $300.00 for 30 caps. I think Ho-Chi-Minh was correct in looking into other alternatives.
Click to expand...

Well halcion did work, but only for 2 weeks.

everything post on every forum i have read, about halcion, everyone has the same reaction.

it works for 2 fucking weeks, or occasional use.
its not that i want some fucking drug, the idea is frightening to me really....
but i know its nessecary, and i REALLY dont want seconal, because it binds so tightly to the GABA receptors that any other drugs that hit the same receptors feel weak in comparison...

I also take xanax....
I get 3mgs a day, which i split into 6 doses.
It hasnt lost efficacy, especially when i take small breaks, say on the weekends, when i usually buy some somas/norcos to use for the discomfort.
Sounds like drug use, but it helps me feel better about the whole thing.


And quit making me sound like im craving something, lastnight was the first good night of sleep ive had in weeks, i slept about 6 hours.
certainly i havent slept more than 10-11 in the past 7 days.
And 6 of those hours were lastnight.

I sleep under an hour, and wake up, and i cant sleep again.
sometimes i just black out, sometimes i sleep and im not sure if i slept or not
its hard to describe but ill just blank off, and remember watching a show, and its still on,but im not really the same episode.....
Its insane.


also i read this report
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=64749

this dude took it for like 40 fucking years.
 
You're never going to get prescribed a barbiturate or sodium oxybate.
 
drfeelgood1 said:
Guys,

Diphenhydramine works the best IMO for insomnia. I know none of you here like it, but for sleep its the best and I think more potent in inducing sleep than any other prescribed benzo/hyponic type meds. 25mg of Diphenhydramine will knock you out. Or even 50mg if you wanna have good nights sleep and it is not addictive.

Xanax (benzo). 1mg a night puts me to sleep and I feel refreshed the next morning.

But Diphenhydramine I think beats most prescribed benzos out there. Even Ambien for insomnia.
Click to expand...

lol at this. Diphenhydramine is terrible. If anyone has the SLIGHTEST insomnia problem diphenhydramine isn't going to do shit.

In NO way will it work better than a benzo.
 
Seconal (secobarbital) is still legally allowed to be prescribed for insomnia, but, at least in the United States, it is Schedule II, and therefore under much more strict controls than benzos which are Schedule IV. This also means some doctors may be recluctant to prescribe it. Barbiturates have fallen out of common use due to the fact that they are much much easier to overdose on than the benzos. Same goes for chloral hydrate (although that's Schedule IV like benzos IIRC).
 
Ive had some massive sleep issues in the past and started medications for it with trazodone which will knock you out cold but had a nasty hangover imo. Then it was amitriptyline, that gave me a racing heartbeat and skin reactions at low doses. Then it was diazepam which was good for about a month then stopped working. After that it was zopiclone, which was awesome when mixed with weed but also stopped working after about a year.
Finally it was zopiclone and mirtazapine and weed, this was perfect for a longtime. The mirtazapine helped me not to eat my zopiclone and run out early but the mirtazapine had to be upped every couple of months.
Then my doc got nervous about the length of time id been on zopiclone and wanted me off it.
Now i use mirtazapine, pregabalin and cannabis, which works ok most of the time (about 6 hours a night).
What im getting at is that maybe a mix of a strong antihistamine like mirtazapine or amitriptyline and a hypnotic like zopiclone or (much, much stronger) midazolam might work.
 
I used to get ambien, lunesta, and restoril scripted all at once, and cycled them. Helped to prevent SOME tolerance. Miss that doctor, I do. It's an idea, anyway.
 
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