Habitual psychedelic use

[Flickering]

Not talking about the more typically addictive dissociative class of hallucinogens (PCP, ketamine, MXE, DXM), but more specifically, about actual psychedelic addiction.

The right person can be addicted to just about anything - jerking off, computer use, datura. Doesn't have to be a chemical dependency with withdrawal symptoms, it can just as easily be a habitual thing. But for most, this isn't a problem with psychedelic drugs, because the experience tends to be quite powerful and need time to be absorbed. Still, I hear about psychedelic binges and of overly frequent use, which isn't nearly such a bad thing for your body as shooting smack every day, but I imagine it would have a warped effect on your way of seeing the world.

Following my last LSD trip, I didn't feel like I was going to need another experience for quite some time. But as the afterglow faded over the week, I found myself brooding on the next trip again. After all, why not? Altered states of consciousness have become my new passion. I never did care about money or work or relationships or just generally, the real world. Acid made it easier to enjoy those things for a few days, then it was gone. At least now I have an actual, genuine thing to care about and place hope in, amid the mild depression and dissociation of every day. But restricting myself to once a month or so makes all the time in between feel like nothing but waiting. The temptation is there, especially in moments of extreme frustration and feelings of being trapped, to just go for it as often as I feel like.

Why don't I? Because I didn't start out using psychedelics just to have fun, or even for their anti-depressive benefits. I didn't take them up because I want to escape. I began because I want to use them to help change my life. That's not something you can ever expect a substance to do for you. The window of understanding and uncorrupted self it offers you closes at the end of the experience, and leaves you only with the memory and the lesson. It's then up to you to integrate that lesson into your life. And if go again before the experience is properly absorbed, before you're 'ready', personally I find it superficial and wasteful. There's nothing wrong with that, this isn't a sacred religious rite and everyone's free to do what they like. But it's not something I personally choose to do, because it goes against my intent.

Damn, though. Sometimes the Itch comes up and all I can think is, I could be back in the psychedelic world tonight. Getting on with my Big Important Mission. No longer distracted by stupid adult tasks I could never bring myself to give a damn about. Can't you tax collectors and productive CEOs employing me see I'm busy on a psychonautical quest?! Get out of my way! And then in the same old cycle, I feel like I've already failed to integrate that last lesson, that I've already accumulated many hours reflecting on the experience non-stop, that I'm once again taking things too seriously and expecting to turn my life around on 80 micrograms of LSD. And wouldn't it be nice to just do it as often as I really want to instead?

That's just my experience; how do you all find the habituation potential of psychedelics?

Free rein to dissociatives as well, especially since DXM and the like can cross over into the psychedelic category. (Doesn't for me, though.)

There was another, quite interesting thread on this, but it's archived.

 

[any major dude]

I generally limit myself to one or two experiences per month, though it sometimes ends up being less, & sometimes ends up being more. More often the former than the latter though, and the 1-2 solid doses per month seems to be a good level for me. I tend to think that it would be difficult to get much out of more than that. I will occasionally also take a very low exploratory dose of a new compound or new batch in addition to the 1-2 actual "experiences." Often times after these low dose experiments i am quite anxious for my next medium to high sized dose. Given that you've been taking roughly ~80µg, i'd say up the dose to 160µg or maybe even 240µg. Probably best to step things up in a graduated manner though. After a truly immersive, full on mystical psychedelic experience, i'd guess your itch should be good and scratched for at least 2-3 weeks, likely longer.

 

[icecube]

Sometimes I have the crazy idea of taking a blotter once a week... choose 1 day of my weekend and do it..
Mainly because there are two things I love to do: music and sex.. other stuff doesn't even come closer..
And listening to music on Acid is like a hundred times better.. There are almoust 30 albuns waiting to be tested during a trip..

But I had such a crazy year that once I took it 5 weekends in a row.. Now I take it once a month.. And I noticed that every time it get's less intense...
I'm worried about having to take a lot to have a nice trip.. Is it me or it really happens?

I'd say that that's 90% of why I don't do it every week. 10% because I don't know the long-term effects after doing something like that.

 

[Ennfenn]

Personal experience--I have none, because the whole psychedelic venture has never sat good with me (rumors about people tripping, indefinitely). I can, on the other hand, try my best to empathize with you. I'm no stranger to the urge to escape to a subjective world where only I can be a part of. I would say the urge, the drive, the craving you feel to escape into the fantasy realm certainly holds characteristics of addiction/dependency. Like you said, people aren't immune to addiction and it can strike in the most unexpected places, i.e. masturbation, food, chemicals, etc. It seems like you're struggling with several internal battles that you may want to consider letting out by confiding in a trusted companion (that is, if you are aware of such conflicts that bothers you). I'm not getting into therapy or anything but one thing's for sure: habitual, maladaptive behavior is never positive. I would recommend taking it easy for a while because long-term use of psychedelics could potentially lead to Parkinson's, senility, or unspecified categories of schizophrenia.

 

[Enter Galactic]

At one point my concern with doing it frequently was getting HPPD or going crazy. At this point I wish I knew how to get HPPD. I honestly function better in the come down of my trips than I ever could while I'm sober.

 

[Flickering]

I generally limit myself to one or two experiences per month, though it sometimes ends up being less, & sometimes ends up being more. More often the former than the latter though, and the 1-2 solid doses per month seems to be a good level for me. I tend to think that it would be difficult to get much out of more than that.

That to me sounds heavy yet responsible; I guess it also depends on the person and what they need. It's interesting too that Shulgin, for example, experimented constantly with new substances, and he and his wife had hundreds upon hundreds of trips throughout their lives - seemed to work fine for them. They're probably still going, too.

Given that you've been taking roughly ~80µg, i'd say up the dose to 160µg or maybe even 240µg. Probably best to step things up in a graduated manner though. After a truly immersive, full on mystical psychedelic experience, i'd guess your itch should be good and scratched for at least 2-3 weeks, likely longer.

240µg is asking for trouble in my case. But I think you're right, the itch probably was never scratched because I have yet to experience the full mind fuck introspective life-changing trip I've been looking for.

I'm actually putting acid away for now. It was great, but not exactly what I'm after at the moment, so I might not touch it again for another year or so. It's the psychedlic experience in general that has me hooked.

And listening to music on Acid is like a hundred times better.. There are almoust 30 albuns waiting to be tested during a trip..

Shrooms trump all for me... losing connection with the pace of time, and melding into the creative emotions, unbeatable. Acid is good for it too though. Ever try acid + music + sex?

I'm worried about having to take a lot to have a nice trip.. Is it me or it really happens?

You'll gradually develop tolerance to pretty much all substances with continued use, yeah. One exception is ibogaine, which is actually known to completely reset your tolerance of all substances, permanently, after a single dosage. But for a less powerful and life-changing route, leaving the stuff alone for a few months or years will gradually set the standard back to baseline.

It seems like you're struggling with several internal battles that you may want to consider letting out by confiding in a trusted companion (that is, if you are aware of such conflicts that bothers you).

There are people who I tell more or less everything, but they're all online relationships; gradually though, especially after my first LSD trip, the inclination has inched forward to confide with people I know face to face. At any rate, I find that being able to share things is nice, but it doesn't fix any of the problems, which seem far and wide to be unfixable by conventional means, hence why I'm so determined to dive into psychedelic land.

I would recommend taking it easy for a while because long-term use of psychedelics could potentially lead to Parkinson's, senility, or unspecified categories of schizophrenia.

Well my main concern is screwing up the process, and one day looking back on psychedelics as yet another wrong turn. Also, since my second bad trip, I've been anxious about taking the wrong thing, at the wrong dose, at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong mindset, and going insane. Long-term or permanent psychosis does happen, though permanent trips are a myth, and I think the degree of insanity will depend on the user, their latent mental problems, and the substance in question. LSD, for example, is responsible for a lot more such cases than mescaline. As for Parkinson's or senility, I'm skeptical, what are your sources?

 

[RobotRipping]

When i have a bunch of psychedelics and my life is generally going well i'll trip every weekend, Friday and Saturday (while in school I used to throw a couple weekdays in there). On Saturdays my tolerance isn't that bad, I might double up my dose or something to get better effects. If i try for a third day in a row then i lose all the magic and the trip seems shallow and boring (even at 3x the regular dose). I've also tried to trip many more days straight but it just gets worse.

Psychedelics aren't meant for habitual use, not because you can't handle it or physically pull it off but because they stop working so fast and the waste of precious material becomes too great of a concern. I understand the desire to trip all of the time, not for escapist reasons but to explore the mind, art, whatever, it's just not possible to sustain and that's what makes psychedelics such wonderful drugs, among other things.

 

[huolesoh]

i don't know how anyone 'binges' on psychedelics; they make me think a million times faster then normal and i'd quickly run out of energy and lose interest in more tripping

but then again psychedelics that "get you high" moreso then make you reassess your life, have more potential for abuse. but still i'd say only to the same extent as alcohol, which is already heavily abused by many

if i had 100g of MDA and 100g of 2cb.......

 

[RobotRipping]

^mostly boredom, normal life is just too slow and mundane for me, i need to feel that intensity, whether from drugs or a fucked up lifestyle or both.

 

[ephrem]

I'm certainly guilty of indulging in psychedelics perhaps a little too much, but i keep my doses low and vary the compounds and basically have a nice evening by myself.

It's because i'm by myself though that i do this. If the situation were different the frequency would be less.

 

[atara]

I used to trip weekly, though lately I only trip when I have occasion to, which usually means a concert or a gathering of some sort, which hasn't been often thanks to grad school. Partially, this is because my stash is running low and I haven't replenished it, which, partially, is due to money (bleh).

I never did care about money or work or relationships or just generally, the real world.

puffs cigar

Gentlemen, the root of the problem.

 

[Ismene]

It's then up to you to integrate that lesson into your life

I'm not sure I agree with that philosophy flickering. There are some things that can be readily absorbed into your everyday life - getting up and going for a run before work, changing what you eat etc and there are some things that can't. For example, an orgasm can't be integrated into your everyday life - it's an experience that you have, you enjoy, you treasure until the next time.

That for me is the most valuable and constructive way to view the psychedelic experience. I don't want to be getting out of bed at 4 in the morning to go to some shit job trying to integrate the psychedelic experience into it. I think it's a waste of time. Peak experiences arn't meant to be permanent. They exist to add meaning and hope to your life and to know that listening to your fat fucking boss isn't the be-all and end-all of life. Y'follow?

 

[basement_shaman]

This thread hits very close to home for me. I am in exactly the same boat as OP. When I discovered MXE I felt like I had found a sacred treasure, but after three weeks of daily use I pretty much exhausted what was to learn from it. I feel like I just move from one substance to the next, learning from it what I can. Can the amount of worthwhile psychoactive substances keep up with how fast I go through them? I feel like I am only limited by the money in my bank account. I have enough time on my hands as it is, so filling the empty spaces with psychedelic or dissociative experiences would be perfect, right?

But as I learn more and more, one of the things I am realizing is that I cannot keep up. Not because of physical harm to my body but because of psychological harm to my psyche. I am not going "crazy", but I am becoming withdrawn from the activities that "normal" people regard as everyday activities. I am teaching myself to find less enjoyment in them, and it's making me less of a social creature. I would use drugs to make me socialize more and enjoy everyday tasks, but sadly most drugs with these effects also put a strain on your cardiovascular system that I don't want to put myself through. I am on 125 mg MDAI right now for the first time. It's actually not bad. But I can only look forward to taking it further - a friend and I have plans to do a MPA/MDAI combo in a few weeks, and today's dose was meant as research for when that time comes. But that's just the next experience. I will be looking forward to it the next few weeks, but what after that? I know it will only make me happy while it lasts. When I come down. all I will be doing is looking forward to doing it again.

So right now I am stuck in limbo, going to therapy once in a while, tripping once in a while, and wondering when change will come.

 

[Ismene]

^^

Change is inevitiable - except from a vending machine.

 

[porkstock]

it's nice to see some other psychonauts concerned with their frequency of tripping. i trip less than a lot of people on forums like this - about once a month, maybe twice. ideally, i'd like to limit it to once per season. but it's hard to do that when you have a stash and when you love tripping as much as we all do.

it's interesting that we all think about this so much though. do heroin/meth/tobacco users even think as much as this about their addictions? probably not.

 

[Flickering]

I'm not sure I agree with that philosophy flickering. There are some things that can be readily absorbed into your everyday life - getting up and going for a run before work, changing what you eat etc and there are some things that can't. For example, an orgasm can't be integrated into your everyday life - it's an experience that you have, you enjoy, you treasure until the next time.

That for me is the most valuable and constructive way to view the psychedelic experience. I don't want to be getting out of bed at 4 in the morning to go to some shit job trying to integrate the psychedelic experience into it. I think it's a waste of time. Peak experiences arn't meant to be permanent. They exist to add meaning and hope to your life and to know that listening to your fat fucking boss isn't the be-all and end-all of life. Y'follow?

I follow, in fact that's how I'm starting to think. At first I'm going, "I shouldn't trip again until I've learnt to integrate the positivity and appreciation for the world I got from those last two acid trips." Then I think, "Are you serious?! Do you see anyone else completely turning their depressing unmotivated lives around from a tab and a half of LSD? Do you really think you learnt so much that you can change problems you've been unable to overcome for years? If that was true you would be able to just do it. Quit being so pretentious and move on to your next experience and have fun; you're ready."

So right now I am stuck in limbo, going to therapy once in a while, tripping once in a while, and wondering when change will come.

Good luck, man. Finding even less enjoyment in the things you were taking drugs to find more enjoyment in has to be frustrating. But as Ismene says, change is inevitable, I hold on to that.

it's interesting that we all think about this so much though. do heroin/meth/tobacco users even think as much as this about their addictions? probably not.

I imagine they think about it a great deal more than we do - it'd be hard to ignore when life becomes bland and they start getting sick if they don't use and so on. But then, it's a completely different class of drugs. I only lump LSD and heroin together in that they alter your state of mind, and you can use either to have fun. Everything else is entirely different; you'd never use heroin for self-development.

EDIT: "Just Do It" - Nike moves on from producing footwear using child labour to LSD production, now priced at $100 a tab and still unreliable quality.

 

[Rolling Sly]

I have only started harder drugs this year and I can certainly say I went through a big habit of psych use. They are still the stuff I really get an itch for, even more so than meth and the likes. It started to be once a week on the weekends for quite a while, then I found a reliable and cheap dealer who really scratched that itch! I would do it on the weekend, and as the tolerance point is 3-7 days for LSD I would sit in my room on wednesday looking at where they were tucked away fighting in my head. Back and forth questioning if I should indulge(On a work night mind you). I of course nearly always did. Had a solid few months there of twice a week if not atleast once a week.

Only now since my guys gone dry for the while have I had a break. Thats when the amps and other things started to be more frequent. Habitual psych use can really cause lingering and mentally lingering effects. Atleast it has for me. I have mild HPPD symptoms all the time(in the forms of 'rainbow static', CEVS and creeping and creeping and crawling landscapes sometimes.)

I dunno there is just something about being in the psychedlic world which draws me in like no other8)

 

[icecube]

Shrooms trump all for me... losing connection with the pace of time, and melding into the creative emotions, unbeatable. Acid is good for it too though. Ever try acid + music + sex?

Once i had sex after a few hours of tripping.. I was a little lazy, weird.. but not tripping hard/confused/etc.. it was a little weak
When I was having sex, as my eyes were closed, I imagined lots of stuff which has nothing to do with sex.. non sense images etc.. at some point I lost focus and I wasn't so hard anymore.. then I decided to focus and finished it..

A funny thing is that, meanwhile my orgasm was comming, I was imagining a bucket getting full... and more and more close to the top, as I was feeling the orgasm near.. when I pictured the bucket overflowing, I was cuming.. LOL. but I enjoyed.. nice experience.. might try again on harder trip, eventualy

You'll gradually develop tolerance to pretty much all substances with continued use, yeah. One exception is ibogaine, which is actually known to completely reset your tolerance of all substances, permanently, after a single dosage. But for a less powerful and life-changing route, leaving the stuff alone for a few months or years will gradually set the standard back to baseline.

I've never heard of it. Is it irrefutable? Have you ever taken or know someone that has?

Well my main concern is screwing up the process, and one day looking back on psychedelics as yet another wrong turn. Also, since my second bad trip, I've been anxious about taking the wrong thing, at the wrong dose, at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong mindset, and going insane. Long-term or permanent psychosis does happen, though permanent trips are a myth, and I think the degree of insanity will depend on the user, their latent mental problems, and the substance in question. LSD, for example, is responsible for a lot more such cases than mescaline. As for Parkinson's or senility, I'm skeptical, what are your sources?

I had a couple of bad trips.. one of them really intense, never felt worst in my whole life. But I learnt how to deal with it, now I have only good trips..



I'm considering taking it slow now, I need my intolerance back.. and I'll keep my next dose to myself, tripped to much with friends.. it's ME time now

 

[Flickering]

I've never heard of it. Is it irrefutable? Have you ever taken or know someone that has?

If only! Ibogaine is seldom heard of and very hard to come by. It's also extremely expensive. The trip often lasts for 24 hours or more, and is very mentally and physically taxing. I wouldn't approach it lightly for the purpose of resetting tolerance.

As for its ability to do just that, I'm not 100% sure how well it works. But there are two reasons people die on ibogaine: pre-existing heart problems, and mixing with other drugs. Most people who take it are heavily addicted to something; ibogaine has a high rate of curing addiction without much withdrawal symptoms (yeah I know, it sounds like a wonder drug). But if you have taken heroin, for example, shortly before or after the ibogaine experience, it can kill you. Your tolerance has been reset and a dose you'd normally have no trouble with is now a serious overdose.

I had a couple of bad trips.. one of them really intense, never felt worst in my whole life. But I learnt how to deal with it, now I have only good trips..

Aye, me too, it's great to be able to sort out what went wrong last time and have a better approach to future trips. Mind you, I've only tripped twice since the shroom nightmare, so I don't have much experience to back up my new approach with yet.

 

[pastelcircus]

ditto, flickering.
even though i've had some rough shroom experiences, they drew me in every time
i was just about to post a thread about incorporating the 'lessons' learned from psychs..
months after your last trip when you know you're not taking care of yourself properly
ie; when i do shrooms, i think, yeah, i need to quit smoking, exercise, just be happy, all this stuff
but then i come down, sleep, and the next morning when i'm supposed to be up early to go for a bike ride or whatever, i sleep in, get back to my same old shit
i actually have found it taxing on my ego to not incorporate shit you know you need to do
it's hard though, after how many months of being in an unconscious, habitual state, knowing full well what you've got to do to break the pattern
probably where i've got stuck in these patterns is when i continued dosing without making any changes in my life
and still, i crave.
i also feel no need to take part in the (to me) mindless and monotonous trappings of the 'average' american life..
we both probably need to work these lessons in, then maybe we won't feel the urge to delve into other realms
like, right now i'm really craving some psychs, but i know that i'm not in the right state,
and for some reason, i feel like if i took a decent dose of shrooms that these things would reveal themselves to me and 'reset' my mind to make the changes stick, but i know that's not the case atm
so
idk lol
we both have a similar situation so i can't really offer too much perspective