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H, the shitdrug from hell, is coming around

You think that the Heroin "epidemic" is a lot worse than the alcohol epidemic? Almost every person I know drinks at least 3 times a week if not more. I have plenty of friends who are alcoholics and have been drinking on a daily basis for over 4 years. The thing about alcohol withdrawl is that you have the possibility of death, unlike Heroin where you will just feel like shit for a couple of days. I think that you are picking and choosing which drugs are good and which ones are bad. You're not only doing that, you're blaming the drug instead of the user. I don't understand your anger at all. Like I said before, you remind me of a parent who just learned that their kids do drugs, they don't want to believe that their kids are the ones who are at fault, it is easier for them to think that it is the drugs fault. I also don't think it's fair for you to totally cut off a friend for doing Heroin. A friend is someone who will be there for you no matter what, not one who will cut you off if you do a drug that they don't agree with.
 
Like i said, i have some sympathy for the addicts and they should be given methadone, which has a longer half life.

Im not going to say heroin addiction is worse than alcohol... but im sure not going to say its better.

I think that you are picking and choosing which drugs are good and which ones are bad.
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i have seen heroin addicts steal and lie...ive seen people struggle to come off of heroin and fail. its the worst drug i have knowledge of.

I hear it makes u feel like orgasm and intense pleasure... yea well alcohol doesnt do that buddy. so, psychological cravings would be much worse than alcohol. I dont know for sure, but i would guess alcohol does have worse physical addiction though.

And alasdairm, i dont like u taking my ideas out of my post. i didnt call anyone names in that last post... to keep it on topic PM me to why u did that and reported me.
 
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Let's end it here

I know how some feel about me, being like DARE or something. I can not make it any clearer: I have seen this drug fuck up a lot of ppl's lives and end a few. Me and my best friend quit being friends with the heroin users cause they lied and stole and acted bizarre. Im talking like over 30 people we knew of. 2 people we used to hang out with died from it. there were other deaths too. I'm basically repeating myself, but i want to sum up my thoughts.

Anyone that has been through and seen what i saw would feel the same way. Yea, im a little emotional about it, i shouldnt have called names and flamed. The 2 girls I know are just a tiny piece to the picture of my view on heroin. I realize the appearence of immaturity in those posts. But i leave them. To show how heroin can affect a person emotionally in the 3rd person. I have never touched it and am thankful of that. I realized OC's were a dead end 4 years ago. I think heroin is the same. A dead end that can ruin ur life by psychological addiction.

A dealer that offers heroin to a 16 and 17 year old girl needs their ass kicked period. the girls were sort of depressed and very vulnerable. hopefully i find the dealers to beat some sense into them. anyways... read deep into this post. i mean what i say.
 
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I see what your saying, but I don't understand why you still feel that the dealers are the ones that need to be punished. Unless the dealer held a gun to the girls head and said "Take these vials of Heroin and give me money for them," the dealer isn't responsible for anything more than providing a service. He's no more responsible than your shroom dealer, pot dealer, acid dealer, etc.

For every Heroin addict that steals and lies I will show you two who function in life without stealing or lying, you are making a lot of generalizations and it isn't fair to people that are currently going through Opiate addiction.

I hear it makes u feel like orgasm and intense pleasure... yea well alcohol doesnt do that buddy.
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To some people it does, some people can not be without having alcohol in their system. Considering how many people are addicted to Alcohol I would go and say that it is a bigger number than those that are addicted to Heroin. Imagine if there were no hangover or nausea feeling, the epedmic for alcohol would be so much larger than it already is. I doubt you look at alcohol the same way as Heroin but in all honesty it is a lot worse for you than Heroin. It effects many of the major organs in your body... and the withdrawl is terrible...
 
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I'm not defending alcohol, or the girls.

they made the choice but are easily influenced.

," the dealer isn't responsible for anything more than providing a service. He's no more responsible than your shroom dealer, pot dealer, acid dealer, etc.
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What can i say to that and still be nice... nothing... i think ur opinion is far out there and i strongly disagree. i assume u meant irresponsible. i understood ur statement as they should be of the same status.

I know alcohol has a lot more physical addiction than psychological. heroin is the other way around with lots more psychological.

I am generalizing heroin users from what ive seen. i think a group of >30 users out of >30 addicts or so gives me the right to generalize. I realize there may be a few that can use opiates responsibly but i havent seen it.

For every Heroin addict that steals and lies I will show you two who function in life without stealing or lying
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thats very very good odds compared to what ive seen. but should even this be ok?
 
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The chronic, habitual use of any drug can have very real negative physical and mental effects. I'm not defending addiction, or saying that it's acceptable to surrender control of your life to a substance or behavior. I'm just saying that addicts should be treated as people with a chemical dependency problem, not theiving criminal deviants. If you steal to support your habit, you should be punished, but you should also receive drug treatment. When we lock up addicts for sale or possession of drugs with no other charges, we're telling them that they're criminals, and should have no problem with acting as such.

Prison is a better than anything else at teaching criminal behavior.

All I'm saying about legalization/decriminalization is that it would remove a lot of incentive to have a violent corrupt black market surrounding the drug. Heroin, like alcohol, has many attractive properties, and a lot of users have problems with both. When alcohol was prohibited in America, violent professional criminals took over its sale and manufacture, and some people sold alcohol cut with paint thinner. Now, bartenders and brewing companies don't shoot at each other, and you're not going to find some chemical solvent in your whisky.

Do people buy alcohol legally, water it down, and sell it to minors?

Also, I think you're underestimating the maturity of minors. People at this age are all struggling with identity to some degree, and a lot of teenagers have normal behavior that can mimic depression or other mental disorders. This isn't to say that all clinically depressed teenagers are goddamb liars, but some things, feelings of immortality, thoughts of suicide, etc., are a normal part of growing up.

People will do things that are at odds with your values. People will do things that piss you off. The important thing is to pick your battles, otherwise you waste a lot of energy hating and complaining about things you don't like. Next thing you know, you're spending your Sunday holding up a sign with pictures of dead babies or some anti-war slogan, then no one takes you seriously.
 
This isn't really going to go anywhere, because SD is expressing emotion while most other people here are trying to present the facts rationally. This looks like we're apologizing for the evils of heroin addiction, but we're not. Just because I am willing to stand by the fact that Adolf Hitler was not the incarnation of the devil does not mean I'm saying he was a swell guy.

Heroin addiction is certainly a bitch, but chemicals don't jump at you on the street and almost never do dealers entice non-users into starting a habit. It just doesn't happen outside DARE commercials.

I've personally taken heroin and it didn't fuck with my life at all. My daily drinking and pot smoking has however been one of the biggest obstacles to making my life work out properly.

Austensibly these are the "safe" drugs. In the end it's not about the drug but about the user, as has been stated before; well adjusted happy individuals rarely pick up the needle in the first place.

Best of luck to your friends, but I've seen many of mine destroy their lives in a variety of ways without ever touching heroin or any other opiate for that matter.

--- G.
 
i find the "far away look" some acid users have to be kinda cool.
sorry but thats me.... heroin yuck heroin users sure mighht act nice and all, but thats because they know they are fucked.
 
It's amazing how people can have such unfailing insight into the soul of every single person that ever ingested any amount of diacetylmorphine.

--- G.
 
Symmetrical Daze said:
LOL! FUCK NO. how wouldnt it get into the hands of minors? it would be like alcohol, its so easy to get. this plan which i don't agree with would make it easier for minors to get and cause a bigger epidemic of addiction.

[bold comments are edits by alasdairm]

If heroin was legal as u say,there would be a black market and white market. People would just lace the legal heroin and sell it. Damn, i thought CMB, as a mod would have more sense.
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In a highly regulated environment (ie. available only to registered addicts) I can't see how legally obtained heroin could be anymore of an epidemic than that of any other prescription medicine. Sure, heroin is a real shitty drug but there are plenty of other shitty, addictive and freely available substances out there. One simply cannot stop drugs from being available, doesn't it make sense to actually try regulating it?
 
Do people buy alcohol legally, water it down, and sell it to minors?
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Wow, hold on here. I think heroin would be a far greater epidemic if it were legal, that is obvious. And i do think if it was available it wouldnt be available to anyone, so the people getting it would lace it.

Yea, addicts should get something, like methadone. not heroin. too bad if they dont get high off of it, if they want to get off thats probably the best way.

I am trying to present facts or well thought out ideas in the last few posts ML... its not emotion anymore, this is getting boring repeating myself.
 
i have to say that i totally agree with the legalization/controlled distribution side. of course, i think all law enforcement, especially with drug laws, should be centered around harm reduction and making sure people are safe rather than locking them up. true there are certain laws that must be absolute for any society to function, but incarceration for non-violent drug offenses is counter-productive. for gods sake there are people in this country in jail for life for selling/growing pot. CMB's comment about treating drug users as criminals making them act as such is right on point. In short-- treatment and harm-reduction, not incarceration and prohibition.

also-- this would help the poor urban areas to become safer and generallly better living environments. If u were given the choice of flipping burgers the rest of your life for 6.00 an hour, or flipping keys for hundreds a day, which would you choose???
 
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I am generalizing heroin users from what ive seen. i think a group of >30 users out of >30 addicts or so gives me the right to generalize.
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That's a pretty ignorant thing to say.You have the "right"8) to judge millions of people based on what you've seen from 30 people? I don't think so.
 
Yes, i do have a right to an opinion. I think most heroin users are addicts and worthless period.

like i said, i realize some users are ok. never seen one tho.
 
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Well, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and it usually stinks. BTW, I've been using heroin for almost 5 years and I'm not a "worthless" addict. In fact, I only use it a couple times a year.
 
SD--I have to say that I agree with you. I was one of the people that fell into the viscious heroin cycle...lying, stealing, looking like shit, etc...

I completely understand you're situation with these two girls. In the last (and worst) part of my addiction my best drug buddy invited these two chicks to the ghetto with us only because he wanted sex from them. He tried to convince them to try heroin with us, and i tried to convince them not to--guess what they chose. Everyday after that I would try some scam to get money, he would say "DOn't worry about it, these chicks want me, they'll drive us down there AND buy us dope." Even though they and I argued against him "I don't want to be an addict" they said "You don't want to be like us" I told them. It was still too easy. I can't tell you how guilty I felt even after I all the "never pick up a needle" talks but of course with me doing it right in their face and my "friend" egging and egging...

I'm not saying all cases are like this. I take full responsibility for my addiction-I sought it out all on my own. But these girls...I feel so bad especially now in retrospect. I can't help but think we could have convinved them NOT to become addicts instead of vice versa.

Unfortunately it seems as if the girls you know have already made their decision and as much as it hurts you to see them going down that path, there's really nothing you can do to stop it. The conversation you had sounds exactly like many I've had...I've lost some really great friends because I chose dope over everything else. The only thing you can do is live your life the way you choose, and let them live theirs the way they choose.

I'm so sorry though..
 
Symmetrical Daze said:
Yes, i do have a right to an opinion. I think most heroin users are addicts and worthless period.

like i said, i realize some users are ok. never seen one tho.
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Maybe this hasn't occurred to you, but the reason you know all those people are using heroin is probably because they have a serious habit that's impossible to hide, basically they're junkies.

All those other people who do it once in a while and continue functioning like regular people in society, well they don't tend to advertise the fact that they use such a taboo drug. Yet many do.

So when you see a smiling bank clerk or a well dressed businessman, they just might use heroin and you just don't know it because they don't fit your stereotype of a heroin junky...

--- G.
 
Oh, and btw I'm not saying heroin is a safe drug by any means, I just think it and other opiates are already widely available to those that want them and decreased legal sanctions wouldn't necessarily make the market any bigger.

I also think it's never a foregone conclusion that you're going to be addicted to a particular drug. It may be a foregone conclusion that a particular person will get addicted to SOME drug, but I don't think the average person can just ingest a chemical and suddenly be turned into an addictive personality.

--- G.
 
Symmetrical Daze said:
Wow, hold on here. I think heroin would be a far greater epidemic if it were legal, that is obvious.
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it's not at all obvious. there are many real world examples which suggest that you simply are not thinking your arguments through: longer drinking hours in scotland; the pot experience in the netherlands; prohibition in the USA.

yet again, i don't think anybody here is suggesting that heroin be legalised to the extent that one can pick it up off-the-shelf at safeway.

what people are suggesting is that, given people will find a way to get this stuff legal or not, which is the better source?

it appears obvious that you are not listening or choosing to read in a highly selective manner.

regards

alasdair
 
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