Kanaba said:
alright man, i don't mean to get down on you and all, i just think that lots of people on these forums make the mistake of not holding extremely articulate people up to the same scrutiny as they hold all the others. I dig what you're sayin... i just think everyone's opinions should be challenged on a level playing field, regardless of how intelligent you 'sound.'
This is definitely as it should be. Some people get frustrated arguing with me because they don't understand what I'm saying (this is MY fault.) Sometimes what I'm saying is complete nonsense, though I try at all costs to avoid this. But I try to be open minded (in most subjects) and I actually ENJOY having my personal hypotheses disproven. I can't remember who it was but an eminent early twentieth century scientist (I'm positive it was a mathematician or physicist) once remarked that he considered it a good day if he had disproven a pet hypothesis before he sat down for brunch. The moment I read this I had one of those rare instant enlightenment experiences (when you realize something so simple you can't believe you didn't notice it before ***
see footnote ), and obviously I took it to heart. I now try to rougly structure my life around this process.
I think we could have a chance to sit down and chat you would find me easygoing and personable, and not too terribly articulate (I write a WHOLE lot diffferently than I talk. Actually, most of the people who know me (physically) don't have a clue as to my opinions on the subjects of math science and philosophy (some don't even know my views on drug use %)) I quite enjoy talking with people who might normally not be considered "articulate", they often have very interesting and unique views, though it might take a while for you to get them. Quite often their intelligence is very vigorous (perhaps from being put down or trivialized too many times, by people who don't understand them. Whatever doesn't kill you can indeed make you stronger in certain ways)
Conversely, there is a vast subgroup of "articulate" individuals who, though they might have a cunning command of the english language, and may even have mastered a difficult subject (doctoring, lawyering, philosophizing, etc.), are so stubborn in their though process that, when they are trying to defend their (usually numerous) cherished opinions, you fear your brain will bleed were you to continue paying attention to them. You DEFINITELY know who I'm talking about here. Though you'd have to try pretty hard to find one of these on bluelight,and I can't remember running across one, I suspect some will be lurking here as well, given the size of this forum. These are some of the least charming people on the planet. Their level of social conciousness is so close to zero that even god wouldn't know the difference. I have met many such people in my life. Often times I am tempted in to talking with them by their claimed professional status. I'm thinking perhaps I'll learn something. Then they let slip a couple of their opinions (complete with a few bits of trite, meaningless, pseudo-logical nonsense that they honestly believe is strongly supporting their views), and I will almost always just about let them have it. I fantasize about leading them on a seemingly innocent line of thought, at first seemingly backing up their opinions. They love this sort of shit, they will agree with you without fully thinking through what you're saying. I would wait for the perfect moment to strike (if you're wondering, this is when they start adopting your arguments and attempt to dazzle you by pretending they understand their implications even better than you, hence one upping you), then I would pound their tenuous "supporting arguments" open like a jackhammer. Now being smart people, they will realize exactly what has happened to them. In an instant they will at least understand what a jackass they're being, and may even catch a glimse of the TRUE nature of their opinions (that they ARE opinions).
Ok, I'll confess to attempting to live out this fantasy a couple of times. Thanfully I always manage to restrain myself when the guy or gal is a close relative, or is currently fixing my teeth, checking my vision, probing my testicles, etc. I even went through a phase of this, as an adolescent. Now, getting to the metaphorical orgasm in this highly masturbatory process (their moment of realization), is always far harder than you (and more importantly I) think. Remember these people are often quite clever (often, more so than me, they just don't know where to use it!), hence they will quite often see your trap and abort the argument (a meaningful argument takes at least two people) equally cleverly. Rarely, I have actually acheived my intended climax, but always with highly unpleasent consequences. Now, as long as it's still hitting them (the expression of dread is creeping across their face), this is quite pleasurable. I cannot however emphasize enough the brevity of this moment (in my experience). Almost instantly their powerful sense of denial will kick in, they will hate you for that moment of pain, and they will freak out on you. At that point I feel like a complete and total jackass. Because I will then have a little realization of my own. I have just hurt a fellow human being for no reason other than my own pleasure. I have failed to consider their worth apart from some unpleasant and sometimes minor personality quirks. Sure, this person would make a lousy experimental physicist, but they may be a damn good doctor or industrial chemist. Their personality type, which may have been aggravated by environmental factors, will simply not allow them to learn anything from this kind of experience (being attacked by someone of lower status.) In the end, their denial reflex will be strengthened even more, and they will go on thinking like they have for years. It is best to give these people only a hint of your true views, it probably won't change them but the chances of this are still far preferable to the above method. Actually, sometimes this personality is good for them, it gives them the confidence to acheive. So, for them, the best survival strategy may be to NOT change in the slightest, who am I to judge this?
Now, I have been on the receiving end of this too. If you're too over confident, even a non-bright person may point out a flaw in your thinking. Sometimes my confidence and ego get the best of me and I will temporarily (I hope) become that very person I hate the most, the blind intellectual. I have been led into dangerous logical territory I thought I knew well, only to be logically pounded into the pavement. Sometimes it takes only a very short and well placed sentence (like, correlation doesn't imply causation) to topple a personally precious tower of thought. Everyone has some drive for denial, which will replace logic with self-inflating garbage whenever it gets the chance. Now, when someone demolishes my argument, throroughly, I rarely get angry or feel embarrased for more than a second. Instead, I compliment the person on their observation and perhaps try to save face a little
As a note, I envy people with the gift to express complicated ideas in a few words. As you can tell (from the length of some of these sentences), I'm not particularly good at this, though I try hard. Simple explanations are always accompanied by greater understaning (in the speaker and his/her audience.) Some masters of this art were Albert Einstein, Richard Feynman, and Carl Sagan (a known pothead, by the way). I am, in fact, hindered in this area by my upbringing (both my parents are professors of english, at the same college!) So, if I am sometimes too wordy, forgive this as a nasty habit that I would like to be rid of.
*** Actually I.V. DPT emulates this experience quite closely. I have to force myself to do this kind of thing only every couple of weeks/months for fear of going insane! The feeling of enlightenment (be it real or only perceived), is my most cherished of emotions.
