Graf

[Khadijah]

You didn't answer my question at all, especially considering I didn't comment on the van tag. I am asking what is the point of all the quick little "tags" that appear to contain little artistic value? Are they advertising? Are they bitter their mom never wrote their name on their underwear so they are lashing out? What is the point?

I am genuinely curious.

I did answer it. it aint advertising. its cuz you were there and you put your name there. Its to be all over.

 

[IcebergSlim]

What is the point?
I am genuinely curious.

Historically speakin, cause people be dissin
The first graffiti artists in the world were the Egyptians
Writing on the walls, mixing characters with letters
to tell the graphic story about their life, however
today we do the same thing, with how we rap and draw
We call it hardcore, they call it breakin the law
There used to be a time when rap music was illegal
The cops would come and break up every party when they see you
But now the rap music's making money for the corporate
It's acceptable to flaunt it, now everybody's on it
Graffiti isn't corporate so it gets no respect
Hasn't made a billion dollars for some corporation yet, so
in the name of Phase2, Stay High, Pre-streets
Grab your cans and hit the streets, I'm out for fame

KRS-ONE - out for fame

whoever did that is just some obnoxious punk..

Snow has exhibited in galleries and museums such as The Royal Academy in London, the Whitney Museum of American Art's 2006 Biennial "Day For Night", Deitch Projects, Saatchi Gallery and Nicole Klagsbrun Gallery in New York. He is represented by Rivington Arms Gallery in New York

Im finished with the topic.

 

[L2R]

^lol@ boobs in first pic!

for the record, i've seen excellent tags and throw ups. and i've seen shitty ones too.

but i don't want any on my property without permission.

 

[mariacallas]

I disagree. One's ability to introduce an alternative view, teach about that view and teach others to consider that alternative view alongside their own goes a lot further than throwing up a finger and declaring "your loss if you don't get it". That's how progress works, by both sides advancing beyond their own tunnel vision.

this wabbit completely agwees.

 

[Khadijah]

LMFAO....Man....Why do people keep saying "But i dont want it on my property?" How many times have i said and other people said that 95% of the time other than young ass punks who dont understand how it works, it aint gonna be on your property. why does everybody keep repeatin that shit like they aint heard it before.

honestly , on th real, go out....Go outside and look around....At all the graffiti u can find.....Look at how much of it is on peoples private residences...Go head, take some pics for me...Cuz other than gang related tagging which aint even considered writers IMO, there aint gonna be shit on houses....Sure on apt. buildings an projects But i am talkin about houses right here...And i dont know nobody that will use somebodys private residence as their place to get up, straight up......

 

[Finder]

Apartment and condo buildings are private residences and I see a lot of graf on those here in Chicago....mostly along the El tracks.

 

[SA]

How about businesses, lacey? Where do you place those on the morality scale for tagging?

 

[AmorRoark]

I don't think it's right to do graffiti on government property for one reason: someone else has to paint over it.

It's not fair that someone else has to clean up after other people's vandalism.

I think the solution should be the government being more open-minded about graffiti. Possibly making specific areas open for public use of graffiti. I know this won't stop the vandalization entirely but it might help?

Regardless, until something like that happens I'm against using government/public property as canvases.

 

[Finder]

I also see a lot of new construction with graf all over it...windows, brick it doesn't matter. That isn't public property either.

 

[Khadijah]

Yea, and they get covered up when the construction is finished? OMG, theres a tag inside your house underneath the drywall!

The best part of this....Is no matter how many ppl disagree....It aint never gonna stop, or slow the roll....

 

[SA]

Beyond your basic moral tug of war, using business and public/government property as your graffiti canvas does filter down economically to the ordinary tax paying citizen. It could come in the form of a tax increase, condominium monthly maintenance fee increase, transit fare increase, et cetera ad infinitum.

It really boils down to appreciating the value of owned property. The way this world has always worked is people have always been rather protective of their personal possessions and not only have created weapons to protect those possessions, but laws too, both written and unwritten. Hence, not only is it illegal to damage someone's property - regardless of whose it is, bottom line is it is not yours and you have no rights to it - but it could also prove dangerous to your health, be it economically or physically. Our human nature dictates it so and always has, since the beginning of time.

Now if graffiti artists began erecting walls and buying up structures and using those to display their wonderful talents, I could see the movement gaining in popularity beyond their own dreams.

What if my art was not with paint but with hammer and chisel? What if I created art by chipping and chiselling the hell out of any structure I could find? Or, what if my art was to cut/slice the shit out of anything I could? Would I be justified by the Graffiti manifesto logic in cutting up all the seats on public transport and in public buildings, or in chipping an cracking and chiselling great chunks out of walls of buildings?

Bottom line - BUY/earn your canvas, don't steal it. If someone wants to lay down some watercolour on paper, they can't just walk into a stationery and start sploshing away with their brush on the first pad they see. No, they have to pay for that pad first. If a digital artist wishes to create a digital masterpiece, they can't just walk into a computer shop, grab a PhotoShop box off the shelf, install it on the laptop sitting on the next shelf over and start clicking away. No, they have to pay for that first too.

So what then makes graffiti artists so different that they are exempt from earning their mediums? Are they part of some elite club which is exempt from the monetary system? Heck, if you want to rebel against money and possessions and property and all that other normal worldly shit and want nothing to do with it, go live on an island, crack coconuts against your head and make a bunch of loyal friends named Wilson who will agree with anything you have to say... or draw. In town though, do unto others as...

The best part of this....Is no matter how many ppl disagree....It aint never gonna stop, or slow the roll....

That's not an argument, it's that finger in the air at everyone which I referenced earlier.

edit: spelling as usual

 

[AmorRoark]

Off-topic but, SA, the imagery you conjure in your posts makes me giggle on the regular.

 

[SA]

LOL. Yeah, I've always thought in plenty of rather embellished pictures, Amy.

 

[Finder]

Yea, and they get covered up when the construction is finished? OMG, theres a tag inside your house underneath the drywall!

The best part of this....Is no matter how many ppl disagree....It aint never gonna stop, or slow the roll....

I'm not talking about about graf on the Tyvek lining or drywall, I'm talking about graf on the outside brick walls that are not covered up. This goes against your stance it never happens on private property. I've also seen graf go up on people's garages around the city. This is also private property and the city requires the property owner to remove the graf. How is that at all fair?

In fact, I've seen a lot of private residences with graf on them in Chicago so I think your stance it never happens on private residences is absolutely false.

 

[ninjadanslarbretabar]

that made me think of that guy who went into museum with one of his own piece and illegally he would plug it on the wall until the authority would find out.... hehe
(sorry don't have a link)

and also Basquiat

Jean-Michel Basquiat was an American artist. He gained popularity, first as a graffiti artist in New York City, and then as a successful 1980s-era Neo-expressionist artist. Basquiat's paintings continue to influence modern day artists and command high prices.

vandalism ftw

not a graf but i see this one almost everyday

 

[Khadijah]

I'm not talking about about graf on the Tyvek lining or drywall, I'm talking about graf on the outside brick walls that are not covered up. This goes against your stance it never happens on private property. I've also seen graf go up on people's garages around the city. This is also private property and the city requires the property owner to remove the graf. How is that at all fair?

In fact, I've seen a lot of private residences with graf on them in Chicago so I think your stance it never happens on private residences is absolutely false.

To me theres a difference between a house and a apartment building. i said it myself that peeps write on apt. buildings and etc. I would never go get up on the side of someones house yet on a apartment building all the time. Why, cuz their house is inside the building, it aint the same as if i went into their kitchen and did it, it aint directly on their house like it is if it was just a regular 2family or whatever. and number 2 , in the PJ's and ghetto apt. complexes, alot of the shit on the walls is from people who live in the building.

SA, do unto others...Well I dont give 2 fucks if somebody gets up on my house so the rule applies...

 

[Finder]

I don't think you're following the type of building I'm describing. A lot of these are buildings that contain condominiums, for instance, three condos, one per floor. These people DO own the building and are responsible for such. I've seen graf up on people's balcony's. They are still private residences despite not fitting into your view of what a "house" should be.

Comparing it to someone spray painting inside a kitchen is at all a fair comparison.

None of the places I'm describing are "in the PJ's and ghetto apt complexes".

 

[SA]

SA, do unto others...Well I dont give 2 fucks if somebody gets up on my house so the rule applies...

Let's not make this strictly about you though. Remember, the rule, that rule you just now quoted ^, applies widely then. For every tagger (let's call him Doug), let's just say the following happens. For every piece Doug tags, another unknown artist then tags Doug's parent's, sister's, grandmother's, or other close and loved relatives' personal property. Then, when Doug's tagged relatives are throwing their arms up in despair over the lost fruits of their hours/weeks/years of labour, I'd like Doug to calmly explain to them how they don't appreciate art. When he succeeds and get his relatives resolved to the notion that they should get on back to working and earning and owning and getting their shit destroyed over and over again and it's all okay, because it's all in the name of art... when Doug succeeds in convincing his relatives of this, I think the rest of the world may lend a better ear. Until then, forgive me if I give Doug a couple of basic choices the next time I see him defiling property which does not belong to him, neither of which choices would involve words like "Thanks very much, Doug. Luv you, buh-bye.".

 

[Khadijah]

You could use all the same arguements for drugs becuz selling drugs "hurts the community."

 

[Finder]

So you're essentially saying it is perfectly fair for a homeowner, whose property is violated for the sake of some else's art (I can't say I think tagging is art in the slightest, other kinds, yes), to pay for the clean up?