Gothics, Emos and other subcultures: A Discussion

[CuPillar]

dont bring up emo's.. fuck them and their silly ways!!!

 

[Doppelganger]

In honesty, I haven't spent enough time in my life talking to goths to really form an opinion at all.

No good experiences. No bad.

The ones I see around Flinders St have always seemed to keep to themselves and not cause any crap. So yeah, they don't bother me. Nor does the culture.

 

[endlesseulogy]

oh fuck you make me laugh michael

i'm not sure if there's enough material to warrant a whole thread on this, but i'll leave it for now and see what the response is like

as it is, i have something to add, as i was discussing this exact topic recently with someone.

basically my feelings are that anyone who takes it upon themselves to decide what other people should be 'allowed' to listen to, wear or act like, is an absolute fucking tard.

people should be allowed to do whatever makes them comfortable and happy - and the thing that shits me about people (gothics and others) who involve themselves in alternative lifestyles and then diss other people is that they don't seem to realise the hypocrisy of their actions....in that alternative cultures are inherently about expressing yourself as an individual, and by placing limitations on other people, they are directly contravening this ideology.

if people want to dress in gothic clothes, be my guest, but when those same people chastise others for their taste, whether mainstream or alternative, they can fuck themselves.

a friend of mine recently told me a story where a gothic girl walked into a party she was at, and remarked to someone "omg, it looks like a supre shop vomited in here". now while i find this comment amusing - as my friend pointed out, who the fuck do you think you are?

if people want to dress according to fashion, who cares? it's not like you fucking invented gothicism....you're just as much of a 'sheep' as them.

i think it comes down to basically defensive/pre-emptive mechanisms.

*broad generalisation ahead*

i would say that a lot of these people are so bent on trying to be 'individual', but at the same time, have it in their heads that 'mainstream' society is against them and disapproves, so they lash out before they get to realise that most people don't give a fuck what you wear, and if they do, they are not worth knowing anyway.

anyway. that is my rant of the day.

Good post.

I agree with the majority of things said there.

I guess its all about labels too. The labels WE give these people contribute to their adherance to the trend.

At the end of the day i think goths just want attention. They want to be noticed because it gives their lives significance. I have been friends with many goths and they are usually people with identity problems and deep-seeded confusion in regards to their place in the world. I think if people didnt turn their noses up at goths they would get bored and find something else. These totalitarian alternative lifestyles also foster a sense of community which makes their participants feel a security they are denied in the rest of society. They are bascially outcasts. . Cupillar, i understand its hard for you to understand these people and i respect your stance on the issue, but as you are not a goth yourself, its pretty hard for you grasp what they are about.

I have noticed that "gothicness" is a phase. You dont see many older goths. Its also a very short lived one too. Life is all about progression and expression so in a way its good that these people go through this expression of anger at the beginning of their life rather then halfway through. I guess their "gothicness" is only a problem if you make it one eh? There are so many other things in life to focus on.

 

[lostpunk5545]

I don't have any major problem with goths. As far as subcultures go, they're quite happy to mope around and not hassle anyone. Unlike the straight-edge kids who think it is their personal mission to piss everyone who doesn't agree with them off.

I think it is quite funny that emo kids seem to have adopted so many traits from the goth subculture. The emo scene was traditionally light-hearted, but it seems with bands like The Used etc. becoming associated with it, all the emo kids now want to wear black and talk about how terrible their pathetic lives are.

Now I realise that I've gone off onto an emo tangent here, but I'm not starting a new thread and as previously stated I don't have a problem with goths (though pretending to worship satan is probably as stupid as worshipping god).

The emo scene is evil. Example 1 for proving my point is this delightful young lad who is one of my High School mate's little brothers. Now I used to bodyboard with this kid, we used to go to gigs, Pennywise, The Warped Tour etc. until one day he starts talking to me about shitty bands. Next thing you know he is XxBlooD_cHilDrEnxX, has an off centre lip ring, those ridiculour ear plugs and now no longer likes the beach because he gets "sandy' (What the FUCK???!!!).

Example 2 is his ex-girlfriend probably the most annoying person I've ever had the displeasure of talking to. I didn't know her before she was into the emo/screamo scene but I imagine she was somewhat less annoying. She probably enjoyed sunshine back then too.

Anyways that's my pseudo rant, for more information buy a copy of my new book How Atreyu and Parkway Drive are ruining your child's life.

I don't actually have a MySpace page nor ever will but I recommend that for fun you use the search engine function and search for your old High School. Kept me laughing for a few hours anyways.

 

[endlesseulogy]

I think its a case of fashion and style becoming a priority over the music. When this happens, the music begins to suck.

 

[sux2]

I think its a case of fashion and style becoming a priority over the music. When this happens, the music begins to suck.

The sad thing is that happens with the majority of people. Some genre's entice people to care more about the fashion + style than the music, i.e glam/hair bands but that is also some of it's enticement. It's more about being fun than just the music alone. Goth's are similar to most other 'styles'. Theres good ones, theres bad ones. Deal with it

 

[endlesseulogy]

I blame the 80's..

 

[sux2]

I blame the 80's..

So in essence, you blame cocaine

 

[Mary Poppins]

I've edited the title to make it more inclusive of other subcultures, as I'm sure other people will have input on emos et al.

carry on.

 

[KemicalBurn]

The word 'Goth' comes from the Latin term 'Gothiantim', a word used to describe indiviuals with Down Syndrome.

No, it comes from an era called "gothic" (strangely enough) in which man's imperfection to god is highlighted.

Though most of the gothic ideals are derived from the Victorian era (black clothes for instance) which overlaps with the Romantic era which also influences.

Most goths i know arent depressed or angsty...but then again the goths i know arent 15, and yeah, alot of goths "grow out of it", but i know some in their 20s and 30s who are (believe it or not) well adjusted people, although very witty for some reason. shocking i know.

I also know goths who dont exclusively wear black.

 

[Mary Poppins]

^ aha! yes that's where I thought the term goth originated from too. i was quite disturbed to see rubber duck's post....maybe he was pulling an uncyclopedia?

 

[KemicalBurn]

Its pretty obvious that in any sub-culture you'll find a bunch of people doing it to be "cool" and the be "seen", but they are the minority.

and emo isnt a sub-culture.

 

[endlesseulogy]

^^ Well i think that really depends. Saying that they are the minority in any given scene is a bit of a generalisation. Factors that contribute towards this may include location, culture, music, political events and time period.

If you think emo-isnt a sub culture, what is it? Also what is your definition of a sub-culture?

 

[KemicalBurn]

Emo is a counter-culture.

Subcultures tend to have substance to them and tend to be longer lasting. I dont even like lumping emo in with the other countercultures likes "rave" because emo has commercial backing...how rebellious!

 

[endlesseulogy]

Emo is a counter-culture.

Subcultures tend to have substance to them and tend to be longer lasting. I dont even like lumping emo in with the other countercultures likes "rave" because emo has commercial backing...how rebellious!

By golly gosh! you're right!

The unfortunate thing is that the followers of counter-culture dont see the hypocracy in that.

 

[Mary Poppins]

In all honestly, I'd actually say that emo is both a sub and a counter culture.

Subculture is a social group with shared characteristics that distinguish it in some way from the larger cultural group or society in which it is embedded. Generally, a subculture is distinguished either by a unifying set of ideas and/or practices (such as the corporate culture or the drug culture) or by some demographic characteristic (such as the adolescent culture or the culture of poverty).
highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072486694/student_view0/glossary.html

In sociology, counterculture is a term used to describe a cultural group whose values and norms are at odds with those of the social mainstream, a cultural equivalent of a political Opposition. In casual practice, the term came to prominence in the general press as it was used to refer to the youth rebellion that swept North America and Western Europe in the 1960s. Earlier countercultural milieus in 19th century Europe included the traditions of Bohemianism and of the Dandy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter_culture

as indeed something can be both...and often is

here is the wiki entry on subculture that has quite a lot of information about the topic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subculture

 

[KemicalBurn]

The unfortunate thing is that the followers of counter-culture dont see the hypocracy in that.

Who the hell cares what a bunch of emo kids think? They can continue listening to their simple plans at the linkin park. more power to them!

Man, they are so hardcore! KILL WHITEY!

 

[m4dd0g]

I think gothic culture is a love of all things dark, brooding and emotional - some parts of our lives and culture that many people ignore or just pass on by without a second thought.
I don't think they're on the whole [sweeping generalisation x 2 ] preoccupied with being individual - not in my experience anyhow.
It's more a fact that these people find various parts of the 'dark' of society interesting and aesthetically [and sometimes spiritually] beautiful.

This is certainly my experience of goths.

Personally ive never talked to anyone for any length of time that hasnt pointed the finger at some other social group and said: 'im better than them'. Most of the posts in this thread, case in point. Its called human nature.

I dont consider myself goth, but by my tastes, outlook and dress sense Ive often been asked if I was.

I like socially benign sub-cultures ... its like art painted with a social brush. Yes, they are still human and just as stupid and petty as everyone else, but that doesnt mean its not in some way beautiful to see.

Goths?

 

[xcidium]

Some may have seen this before but hey, it always makes me LMAO.

 

[kryalkastleE]

in my personal experience i have always found goths to be some of the nicest people around. a girl at my high school was condemed for being a goth and everyone was scared she was going to bring a gun to school and shoot everybody, just ebcause she wore black and loved marilyn manson. but thats just who she was and once you got to know her she was one of the most sweetest down to earth genrous people i have ever met.
and she wasnt afraid to be herself. i admire people that arent afraid to show who they are on teh outside even if it means society is going to laugh in their face.
i think ravers look pretty stupid sometimes too, but thats just who they are.