Giving Up On Squats

auhsoJ

auhsoJ

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So I've been squatting reasonable numbers for awhile. Yes, Voxcide - before touching testosterone. I gained roughly 50lbs to my squat from my first cycle. Everything has been dandy up until three weeks ago.

I find myself unable to squat a measly 315lb for 10. I have no idea why. To do 10 I have to rack the weight sometimes twice for a breather before going again. I spent the time post cycle with lower weights and slow/high reps. No science to it but I was basically trying to give my body a break.

I've also noticed strength decreases in chest movements while back/delts have been almost consistent with my time on the sauce. I noticed this strength decrease happened around the time I got two ear infections (been on Augmentin for several weeks) while simultaneously going out of my way to improve my lipid profile.

Today I experimented with doing leg presses first (instead of squats) - to get the blood flowing - following squats. I could feel the quads a bit more but my strength was crap. (Leg press strength is great)

Typical leg day : squats, leg press, stiff-legged deadlift, leg extensions.

I also changed my split.

Chest/Biceps
Abs
Off
Back/Triceps
Abs
Off
Delts/Traps
Abs
Off
Quads/Hams
Abs
Off

(Takes two weeks to get through)

Normally I've always thrown abs at the end of every other workout but started giving them a day unto themselves. I thought that working my abs more intensely is causing my core to become weak on leg day. My deadlifts haven't suffered.

Also, I bike a fixed gear bicycle everywhere in my hilly city.

My theories for squat suckage:

-Working out abs too much making my core weak.
-Immune system down from two ear infections and antibiotics
-Taking great efforts to lower lipids has caused strength to suffer.
-Biking makes me too tired to maximize my strength (doubt this as I have been at it for 4+ years)

This may or may not matter but I just started a second cycle last week.

Currently taking:

test c 600mg/week

supps:
garlic/cayenne extract pill (with each meal)
fish oil
multi
ala
biotin

previously taking niacin for lipids.

Cleaned up my diet even more. Dropped all "heavy carbs" like pasta and replaced with overly fiberous low carb breads. Started eating heavy carbs again during cycle.

Thanks for reading. I will look forwards to all your lovely comments.
 
Im no genius but could you mention whether or not your #s have dropped or have stayed the same? And whether or not you are eating above maintenance?

If you are upset about a plateau, sometimes these takes months or years to bust through. If your #s have dropped and you don't know why, you might be overtraining. When was your last "down" week?

I know I squatted regularly when I lifted weights and I never got past a[n estimated] 2x bodyweight 1RM. We all got different genetics.
 
Honestly I've never counted marcos. Sure - if I were super serious I might but I know what foods to eat and not to eat. I eat about the same frequency and body of meals a day. I virtually replaced all carb sources (oatmeal, gatorade, occasional thai food cheat excluded) with super low carb high fiber sprouted bread. It could be that eating healthier was limiting my energy.

I just started eating higher carb meals so something might change. I'm just tired of lifting low on squats and feeling shitty because of it. It literally makes no sense. I was doing 275 yesterday and that seemed awkward. I also seem to have a problem with the bar wanting to slip off my back. This never was a problem before.

On the plus side I've leaned out a bit.

I don't think I'm over-training because it takes me two weeks to hit every body part.

Numbers:

The highest I've successfully squatted was 405. I managed to do that for 5 on two separate occasions.

Maybe I'll try front squatting again. I hated how awkward that felt.
 
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Damn near pissed my pants when I read the thread title.

First off, that is way too much fucking ab work. I don't think all of that is making your core weak per say, but it just makes you look like a wannabe summer beach bro with all those crunches. Cut it the fuck out, for god's sake. Abs get blasted enough when doing good squats and deads.


If you don't think you're developing any injuries from squatting, then stopping may very well be the worst idea I've ever heard. If your gains haven't been good thus far, I would really like to see them after you cut sqauts out completely. Decreasing lipids has nothing to do with it, unless your idea of fixing your lipid profile was eating carrots and smoking pot all day. Antibiotics and the infections may very well be the cause in the strength decrease. Oh well. The infection is gone. Time to start pushing it hard. Ease in with some hyperextensions and leg presses if you don't want to get back into it too quickly. Everybody's leg press strength is great, don't worry. Alternate leg press and squats in your leg days. You can't rely on squats alone for glutes and hams. Bottom line: Do not stop squatting. I could care less if you can only do 185 for 10. You are out of your mind if you eliminate such a rudimentary exercise from your routine, especially while on cycle, jesus. If you're mad that your squat isn't where you want it to be, not doing it anymore is no fucking way to fix it. Don't think about how weak your getting. Your strength is in your own hands. I'll be honest, 405 isn't too shabby for your physique. Oh, and I sure as fuck HOPE that you do your squats ATG.


edit: Now waiting for Boragay to come in here with his coconut milk.
 
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Voxide said:
Damn near pissed my pants when I read the thread title.

First off, that is way too much fucking ab work. I don't think all of that is making your core weak per say, but it just makes you look like a wannabe summer beach bro with all those crunches. Cut it the fuck out, for god's sake. Abs get blasted enough when doing good squats and deads.


If you don't think you're developing any injuries from squatting, then stopping may very well be the worst idea I've ever heard. If your gains haven't been good thus far, I would really like to see them after you cut sqauts out completely. Decreasing lipids has nothing to do with it, unless your idea of fixing your lipid profile was eating carrots and smoking pot all day. Antibiotics and the infections may very well be the cause in the strength decrease. Oh well. The infection is gone. Time to start pushing it hard. Ease in with some hyperextensions and leg presses if you don't want to get back into it too quickly. Everybody's leg press strength is great, don't worry. Alternate leg press and squats in your leg days. You can't rely on squats alone for glutes and hams. Bottom line: Do not stop squatting. I could care less if you can only do 185 for 10. You are out of your mind if you eliminate such a rudimentary exercise from your routine, especially while on cycle, jesus. If you're mad that your squat isn't where you want it to be, not doing it anymore is no fucking way to fix it. Don't think about how weak your getting. Your strength is in your own hands. I'll be honest, 405 isn't too shabby for your physique. Oh, and I sure as fuck HOPE that you do your squats ATG.


edit: Now waiting for Boragay to come in here with his coconut milk.
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I've mentioned several times how I was improving my lipids. Niacin, fiber, cutting out fat heavy and heavy carb foods. Eating carrots and smoking pot all day were not in the agenda.

I got the ab idea from bodybuilding.com - it's not how I normally train but I've been trying it out. I'll throw in traps or other parts I didn't have time for before.

I've been squatting all throughout the pain of feeling depressed over squauckage. All through the infections/antibiotics too.

I do squats AND leg presses on the same day. Squats first, then leg press. I'm 99% likely not going to give up on squats but the crap strength is killing me.

To make up for my strength I've been doing them slow, trying my hardest to pause in the hole for a few. I haven't gotten smaller and I still have a hard time walking after but the strength is bad. Also excessive sweating causing the bar to nearly slip off my back. (With a shirt)

I actually enjoy reading your responses, Vox but I constantly feel like you're being condescending. As in we're all (on this forum) a bunch of undisciplined, wannabes with mediocre builds.
 
auhsoJ said:
I've mentioned several times how I was improving my lipids. Niacin, fiber, cutting out fat heavy and heavy carb foods. Eating carrots and smoking pot all day were not in the agenda.

I've been squatting all throughout the pain of feeling depressed over squauckage. All through the infections/antibiotics too.

I do squats AND leg presses on the same day. Squats first, then leg press. I'm 99% likely not going to give up on squats but the crap strength is killing me.

To make up for my strength I've been doing them slow, trying my hardest to pause in the hole for a few. I haven't gotten smaller and I still have a hard time walking after but the strength is bad. Also excessive sweating causing the bar to nearly slip off my back. (With a shirt)

I actually enjoy reading your responses, Vox but I constantly feel like you're being condescending. As in we're all (on this forum) a bunch of undisciplined, wannabes with mediocre builds.
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In that case, fixing lipids definitely wouldn't be the cause as long as you continued lifting regularly.

At any rate, the only thing that comes to mind is a simple plateau. Not getting stronger sucks, but it should only be more motivation to push it harder. In fact, I would replace leg presses with walking lunges. Leg presses are a joke and complete ego lift, especially when when someone who has never even stepped into a weight room can manage 3 plates. Seen it with my own 2 eyes. As far as actually hitting the muscles it's supposed to, it does a horrible job. Just push through and stick with it. You will get stronger, or you definitely should if you're on cycle. Honestly, this goes back to what I was saying about starting gear too early. If you could manage 405x1 naturally, and THEN hopped on test, I doubt you would have this problem. It's not a personal attack at you or anyone else. You are far from the only one. We just have too many people in here who think gear is a rec drug that you can just use and forget about. It's definitely a bigger deal than a dimebag or even a few lines. People who think PH's are just as good as gear, people who think coconut milk will make you live to be 100, the list goes on.

I can definitely see how you would get this impression, but the bottom line is, the only kind of motivation that works is hard motivation. All that optimistic shit makes people feel all bubbly for 15 minutes, without ever completing their goal. Are there guys with good lifts in this forum? Absolutely. Are they abundant? No. Then you have people like boracay who are at borderline intellectual functioning, despite actually having decent numbers. Whatever you decide to do, just please, fix that ab routine.
 
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I may have started gear a little early. Maybe. When I was natural I was scared to do anything over 365. Nothing worse than failing and having everyone in the gym simultaneously make a shit-eating grin. Not that it's about pleasing others. That's actually happened. You just pick up the weights and try again.

I'm also from a family of short long-distance runners with tiny slivers of muscle. I have an uncle who ran in the Munich olympics. Runners can't lift but they can run.

I'll try lunges for awhile. I thought having a structure method of working abs (besides throwing them in after you're already tired) would be great. Should probably just cut a day off or so.
 
auhsoJ said:
I may have started gear a little early. Maybe. When I was natural I was scared to do anything over 365. Nothing worse than failing and having everyone in the gym simultaneously make a shit-eating grin. Not that it's about pleasing others. That's actually happened. You just pick up the weights and try again.

I'm also from a family of short long-distance runners with tiny slivers of muscle. I have an uncle who ran in the Munich olympics. Runners can't lift but they can run.

I'll try lunges for awhile. I thought having a structure method of working abs (besides throwing them in after you're already tired) would be great. Should probably just cut a day off or so.
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Short, intense sprints can work in your favor. Take advantage of this.

Lunges are the hardest, most demanding excercise by far. If your gym has racquetball courts, go into one of them and do it. It's a rush. No outside influence at all. Complete silence, it's like you're on another planet.

Having a structure for abdominal training is to throw it in with another body part. I don't know anyone who has a day for abs only. You're just doing them too much. Abs are a once per week muscle. They are the easiest to develop by far. Doing that much ab work makes it seem like your ideal physique is brad pitt/abercrombie model, if that's the case, there is no need for anabolics at all, though there's rumors that brad pitt hopped on a mild cycle for fight club. I don't know if that's true or not. That physique is horrible if he actually did use steroids. I could look like that simply by not eating any food and ceasing all masculine physical activity.
 
Haha. I thought Brad Pitt looked pretty badass when I was a teen. I literally was just trying it out. I'm only three weeks into this excessive abs thing. I noticed they seem to "pop" more. That and my squat now sucks.

I'd like to look lean and mean at 190-200lb without loads of fat. Maybe if I get good enough I'd like to compete sometime. I'd probably need friends in the biz for that though.

Thanks.
 
auhsoJ said:
Haha. I thought Brad Pitt looked pretty badass when I was a teen. I literally was just trying it out. I'm only three weeks into this excessive abs thing. I noticed they seem to "pop" more. That and my squat now sucks.

I'd like to look lean and mean at 190-200lb without loads of fat. Maybe if I get good enough I'd like to compete sometime. I'd probably need friends in the biz for that though.

Thanks.
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Whether they're visible or not ultimately depends on your BF%. There are plenty of kids with ripped abs who don't even work out. If I were to give them a 2 plates to squat, the bar would crush their brittle mass immediately. If you're going to do abs, make sure you're going heavy. In the end, I'd rather have a strong, somewhat defined core rather than a shredded and rippled 6 pack that can't make any power. I have found abs respond way better in the 5 rep heavy range if you're doing that ab machine that you hold onto and crunch. Always use plates for any sit-up.
 
I've constantly had problems with having visible abs. I've tried low carb, no carb, working them less, working them more, various exercises. Always just had a 4-pack. It's more of a distorted drum of mass than a ripped tween boy. Deadlifts and squats make a big belly, I guess.

Real bodybuilders have a small waist. The V. I guess.
 
auhsoJ said:
I've constantly had problems with having visible abs. I've tried low carb, no carb, working them less, working them more, various exercises. Always just had a 4-pack. It's more of a distorted drum of mass than a ripped tween boy. Deadlifts and squats make a big belly, I guess.

Real bodybuilders have a small waist. The V. I guess.
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It will come in time, don't worry. Actual bone structures and waist to shoulder ratio is more genetic than anything else, regardless of how much muscle you have. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be busting your ass anyway, though.

4vdt3kg.jpg


That one is a classic. I cringe when I see builds like that.
 
auhsoJ said:
His gut looks like it's own entity. Hard work.
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I was meaning to show how wide his waist is. That pic was taken from the BB forums, titled worst physiques lol. Either way, those abdominals aren't too good, mainly because of the waist they're on. The distended gut is one thing, but that's controllable to a certain extent.
 
I get it. So you're telling me that some people aren't genetically made to have bodybuilder worthy figures. I'm sure that frame took that guy several years to achieve. Stuff happens.
 
my guess is your weakness is from the augmentin...a few days of levaquin or any strong antibiotic brings me back to sqaure one after one week
 
I'm really hoping that's what it is. Seemed to happened right before the ear infections and after. I don't even understand why I get ear infections. I haven't been a swimmer in forever.

I had my last dose of augmentin last night.
 
Well I don't see what the reason to give up squats is just because you are not happy with your strength. It doesn't sound like you are trying to compete or anything so the #s shouldn't matter, what matters is your health and longevity. Unless you want to die young???

You just had an ear infection so of course your #s are going to take a dive. I'm just getting over 6-7 months of a terrible back injury, I pretty much fried the muscles due to a number of things not related to lifting but all my lifts have suffered over the duration. It's not fun but quitting is not my style, I just let up on the weight and did what I could until I started to heal. There were many days I left the gym pissed because I couldn't deadlift or squat or had to give up on them early due to the pain.

Maybe you need to switch up your routine. You should stop doing leg press, it sucks. Leg extension is a waste too. Add new exercises in. Jump squat and overhead squat are two excellent squat lifts a lot of people don't do because "they are too hard." Box jumps.

I prioritize olympic lifting. It is the way to go if you want your body to look good. An hour of various style power cleans will slice the fat off your stomach.

I also looked at your split, I don't really understand it. Ab only days every other workout and many days off? I usually do 4 or 5 straight days of lifting and cardio then take 1-2 days off. I am 5'11'' 180 lbs. Some personal best lifts are 265 lbs power clean, 230 clean & press, 445 deadlift (can't do that right now), 335 maybe 345 squat (can't do that now either cuz the injury, haven't touched 225+ since last summer), 225 lb jump squat X 8 reps (no way injury). I don't do bench anymore either to preserve my wrists for power lifting.

Day 1: Mile run, chest/abs, light arm stuff
Day 2: Mile run, chest/abs
*Note: chest is usually a mix of sets of push ups to failure, 1 arm push ups, machine work light and heavy, sometimes light dumbells, never barbell though. Abs is usually 4-8 sets of various floor exercises all until failure. I always do an (unweighted) ab set to failure.
Day 3: Olympic lift day, power clean, snatch, clean & press, light weight supersets of barbell lifts, 1 arm dumbell snatch... maybe 1 or 2 others I mix it up each time. Maybe a set or two of abs in between the lifts if I need something light to do for a few minutes while the rest of me rests.
Day 4: Deadlifts and squats, including squat variations - jump squat, overhead, lunges, etc. Sometimes barbell row.
*Note: on days 3 and 4 I usually spend an hour at the power rack, so we're talking lots and lots of sets.
day off probably
Day 5: Mile run or maybe 1/8 mile then box jumps, jump rope, very light chest, arm stuff, easy dumbell shoulder stuff, abs
day off

Sometimes I might switch day 4 and 5 or 2 and 3. I always do a mile run day after days off though because I find I am weaker at the power lifts directly after a rest day/s.

Generally I try to mix up the days off. For 5 days lifting I do 2 days off probably on average, but it depends on each week... how busy I am, how my body feels each day, if I am doing drugs on the weekend (I always lift superhard before a drug binge night), etc. You never want to get in a continuous routine when the lifts are more or less the same. Sometimes I will switch the order but I always have either power lifting or intense cardio as a core to each day (I have asthma so I am shit for distance running). Train yourself to be flexible but consistent. If you put down the olympic lifts every week and aren't eating total shit, your abs will be fucking ripped in no time.

If you are biking a lot you probably don't have room for cardio at the gym, but I would stick to doing abs as cool down or "in between major, harder lifts as rest time" for all of your workouts except days when you are doing deadlift or lots of squats in which case you probably don't want to do abs at all or maybe just sneak a single set or two of something in. Well I hope something I put up helps you get back on track.

And of course, stretch like a motherfucker.
 
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Oh yea I'd also suggest not using juice and trying GHRH (ie mod GRF) instead, if you want chemical assistance. I've never done juice but GHRH is not nearly as risky to your health as long as you don't overdo it, and quite effective at promoting fat loss. The strength and weight gains are not going to be as huge but as long as you are not trying to be the goon in the photo I think it is a better, safer choice.
 
Thanks for the reply. I'm definitely not giving up on squats. I never did and I still haven't. My strength just went way down - almost randomly. Last year I stopped working my legs all together - save for deadlifts. It was a four month no squat cycle. I had moved 5 miles away from everything so I was biking more. I thought that doing squats and biking up and down hills was nearly the same. (Not strength wise but for visual appearance) The only thing I've cut out and not experienced any negative consequences was calf work. (Trying to bike home after calf work is brutal. I'm on a fixed gear and I forgo brakes because it's super cool.)

I'm cutting out the ab stuff for now. Going back to how I used to train them. I don't use a belt for deads or squats so my core isn't super weak. I'll try front squats and lunges next leg day. I'll still do my leg press, though. I always feel like I'm not good enough but I'd like to think I train like I compete. :\ I'm not into going Olympic style. I go for over-all hormonal output. Last last back day I tested myself in doing 20 deads at 315 (after warming up). Then went into a normal workout.

Not that hormones are for everyone but since going that way I've been forced to become waaay more serious than I was before. Trying to maximize gains, minimize sides and prevent serious damage to my health.
 
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