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Gibberings CXV - Documented proof
- Thread starter BlindHelperMonkey
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^^ B'day was quiet and civilised and also perfectly enjoyable thanks, Tek. May have to make up for that "quiet and civilised" bit sometime soon though 
I've never actually been to a 12 Step meself - always refused as I fundamentally disagree with their approach. Most areas have other options though - whether local health authority or independent private or charitable options. I've been going to see my "substance misuse worker" for nearly a decade here (and have had others for the past 20-odd years in other areas I've lived previously) who's part of a big private (I think) drug support place locally. Have also been having meetings with a fella under the peer mentoring scheme this last year which is a bit less "clinical" than going in to see a counsellor regularly. "Peers" can sometimes also be 12 Steppers but not all are. Dunno if they have similar schemes where you are but maybe worth looking into. Can definitely help to chat to people who have similar history of use but maybe have a few extra years of non-use under their belts.
I've never actually been to a 12 Step meself - always refused as I fundamentally disagree with their approach. Most areas have other options though - whether local health authority or independent private or charitable options. I've been going to see my "substance misuse worker" for nearly a decade here (and have had others for the past 20-odd years in other areas I've lived previously) who's part of a big private (I think) drug support place locally. Have also been having meetings with a fella under the peer mentoring scheme this last year which is a bit less "clinical" than going in to see a counsellor regularly. "Peers" can sometimes also be 12 Steppers but not all are. Dunno if they have similar schemes where you are but maybe worth looking into. Can definitely help to chat to people who have similar history of use but maybe have a few extra years of non-use under their belts.
knock
Bluelighter
What creates diversity? An economy dominated by small businesses is indeed a more "diverse" economy, but that's a tautology. Being a small business does not create diversity. It makes the business more susceptible to "market forces" because, by definition, a small business has less capital to sustain it when times are hard.
Makes what more resilient, and in what way? It doesn't make the small business more resilient, how could it? I imagine your line of thought is that, in a sector dominated by many small businesses, the consumer has somewhere else to go if one small business fails. But the same is true of sectors dominated by large businesses. Take book retail, Borders went out of business but Waterstones is still around, and of course so is Amazon. If there is enough demand to sustain a book retail sector then there will no doubt be somewhere where I can buy books. I can't think of an example where a viable economic sector has disappeared because there were too few or too large firms in that sector. Can you? I feel that your reasoning is based on wishful thinking rather than what actually happens.
I agree that small businesses are beneficial to the consumer in that they tend to cater to niche demands, I've already mentioned that, but it's not an economic benefit as such.
Does it really? In my experience, large employers tend to offer better conditions because they can afford it. I've worked for a good dozen or so companies in my working life and the best salaries (and "benefits") have come from the bigger companies.
Being small may lead to innovation, perhaps out of necessity, I'll grant you that.
Not sure what you're getting at here.
I don't think feminism is about "entitlement", except in as far as it's about entitlement to parity, and what's wrong with that?
I suspect you're equating your experience of some women being aggressive with feminism, which I don't think is fair.
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Tekken! Welcome home 
V glad to hear things are going well for you. Dammit though, we could have had a Brizting meet while you were living down here.. Although perhaps a drugs forum meet isn't quite what you need while you're in recovery. Good work on that btw, and the lady! Good times 
Boy's got a nasty tummy bug. Am on sick bucket duty. Bad times
I feel I should get involved in this debate but I'm too cold and others are doing a better job than I could right now. Because I'm a woman, natch.
V glad to hear things are going well for you. Dammit though, we could have had a Brizting meet while you were living down here.. Although perhaps a drugs forum meet isn't quite what you need while you're in recovery. Good work on that btw, and the lady! Good times Boy's got a nasty tummy bug. Am on sick bucket duty. Bad times
I feel I should get involved in this debate but I'm too cold and others are doing a better job than I could right now. Because I'm a woman, natch.
I know of schemes like that in Manchester and Macclesfield, think CRI tend to do those kind of groups. In Leeds I have never been to a meeting, only experience I have with services is the Leeds Addiction Unit and a charity called Barca (which offered me a script and/or counselling the day I went into the residential housing)
I too do not agree with the 12 step approach instinctively, and it certainly does not work for everyone. However after living with and getting to know people who came straight from prison, people who have been in and out most of the lives, and then seeing them turn their lives around by following the programme I will never fully dismiss it. Pretty sure being really desperate has a lot to do with it, but nobody really know why it stops them from doing speedballs and committing armed robbery
personally found living clean with others was an incredible experience, nevermind the 12 step shit. It's just comforting having someone to talk to who isn't a doctor or a trained pro just another druggy McDrugbag
will look into it I'm sure there is something, AA or whatever isn't for me as unless you follow the steps properly and pretty much avoid anyone who uses it all starts crumbling, plus you can't even have half a beer
Anyway nevermind all that, seem to be able to enjoy myself these days! I'm sure the 'quiet and civilised' bit is only temporary too Shambles, otherwise I'm in the wrong EADD
[EDIT]: hey effie! Thanks, it has mostly been happy days. Was there for about 7 months, but even though I was starting to drink a little was still abstaining from BL. Didn't really have internet anyway was in this slightly illegal housing situation, do love briz though, quality town to spend the summer! will let you know next time I'm down thinking of making the trip in March, hope the boy gets it all out
I too do not agree with the 12 step approach instinctively, and it certainly does not work for everyone. However after living with and getting to know people who came straight from prison, people who have been in and out most of the lives, and then seeing them turn their lives around by following the programme I will never fully dismiss it. Pretty sure being really desperate has a lot to do with it, but nobody really know why it stops them from doing speedballs and committing armed robbery
personally found living clean with others was an incredible experience, nevermind the 12 step shit. It's just comforting having someone to talk to who isn't a doctor or a trained pro just another druggy McDrugbag
will look into it I'm sure there is something, AA or whatever isn't for me as unless you follow the steps properly and pretty much avoid anyone who uses it all starts crumbling, plus you can't even have half a beer Anyway nevermind all that, seem to be able to enjoy myself these days! I'm sure the 'quiet and civilised' bit is only temporary too Shambles, otherwise I'm in the wrong EADD
[EDIT]: hey effie! Thanks, it has mostly been happy days. Was there for about 7 months, but even though I was starting to drink a little was still abstaining from BL. Didn't really have internet anyway was in this slightly illegal housing situation, do love briz though, quality town to spend the summer! will let you know next time I'm down thinking of making the trip in March, hope the boy gets it all out
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eh, this is sooo much total nonsense
Women have been (were) PREVENTED (by law) from various attainments in employment, and socially. Male dominance in most roles isn't because they were better at it than women would have been at all.
meh, this line of reasoning is ridiculous
[edit]
eh, don't have time to ramble unfortunately, but Ceres, I think your reasoning has been all over the place and contradicting itself, especially what you were writing about yesterday when you were broadly categorising women and talking about them historically, yet refusing to acknowledge yourself in any category
I fail to see the logic there. In any case, dominance is not what feminism is about.
If you want an insight into contemporary feminism, then The F-Word is a good place to start.
Has anybody suggested that at any point?
Ceres said:
It's about the removal of gender bias, not replacing male hegemony with female hegemony. Why do you seemingly find that so threatening a prospect?
It is if a person feels that they have (or are) being unjustly made to feel inferiour to the female gender, which seems to be what Ceres feels himself and 'men' in general are being forced to feel.
But that's totally subjective to the individual imo, and nothing to do with reality whatsoever
parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
Why is everything male dominated though? Must be a reason for it. Men must simply be better (or were better, back in daaaayzz)
knock
Bluelighter
Yes, either this or he's just parroting something he's heard. I've known men who go on about "fucking feminists" with absolutely no justification except that's what folk say in the pub for a laugh.
@PTCH men are (generally) physically bigger and stronger, which mattered more in the days when physical might was a survival factor, and maiming, beating or killing your enemies was a valid tactic for a person to get their own way. Still is valid for "nation states". But I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious.
Albion
Bluelight Crew
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Better at domination, at any rate.
parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
In general men are bigger, faster, stronger & (possibly) smarter. Men win. Why people think it should all be equal is beyond me. Men & women are not the same. Women's tits are better though.
badandwicked
Bluelighter
Its all about the pill. Women were easily stopped doing anything by getting continually preggers.
Mailmonkey
Bluelighter
knock
Bluelighter
You could keep your knees together, you know. The only reason men let you have the pill is it works in our favour too!
That would be because it simply doesn't work. Look into official AA/NA figures and you'll find they're success rate is actually barely half the success rate of people who just quit with no support whatsoever. The whole "I am helpless to my addiction, only a higher power can save me" victim mentality of 12 Step programmes does nothing to solve any issues. In the short term there is plenty of success. See how many of those faces are still attending meetings a few months down the line. According to AA's own figures you'll find 2% still there. Cold turkey with zero support of any kind? Around 5% of such hardcore bods are still "clean" a year later. Am not a fan of 12 Step programmes aas they actively screw your chances of sobriety. They don't tend to publicise that aspect of their model much though funnily enough 8)
Anyhoo. I'd best leave it there. Suffice to say I think you are wise to be looking to other options to achieve whatever goals you have in controlling your drug use
parttime crackhead
Bluelighter
Na, think I'll have dinner first.
badandwicked
Bluelighter
With greatest respect my esteemed friend, fuck off :D
But does it work in your favour? You get laid, but theres no dinner in the oven when you get home. Is is a fair trade? Depends how good your woman is in the sack/kitchen I guess.
knock
Bluelighter
Interestingly the only "stop smoking" method that I thought was any use, the Allen Carr method, is based on precisely the opposite principle, that the addiction is in fact weak, it just seems to be strong, and becomes weaker with every day you lay off the fags. I seem to remember reading that he thought his method was applicable to other addictions too, including opiates. Not sure of the success rate with heroin though.
Sorry I was just making up for the lack of Spade
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