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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Gibberings CLXXIV - Cock Piss Partridge

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ScotchMist said:
Im sure owen wont mind me saying this but it wasnt cold, he had an arsenal of diaz, etiz, pregabs, weed and fuck knows what. Would still of been pretty uncomfortable mind and massive respec to him :).. cold it werent though evey...
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Yeah it certainly wasn't bareback that's for sure. It was CT in that I cut the opiates off dead but I was armed to the gills with other meds to deal with the symptoms.
 
And prescribing that kinda dose for 14 months straight, just for a codeine habit? Sounds draconian.
 
Sounds like idiocy on the part of the prescribing doctor to me.

I can understand the value of putting someone on bupe to help kickstart the recovery process from a codeine addiction, but the dosing is all wrong for sure. Some cretin has given Evey a far bigger habit than when she walked in there.

As for timeframe....it's a difficult one. I don't think long term scripts are generally a good idea for anyone if it can be avoided, but if the person is just going to revert to using if you force a reduction on them then it's counter-productive and pointless having them on a script at all really.
 
THECATINTHEHAT said:
As for timeframe....it's a difficult one. I don't think long term scripts are generally a good idea for anyone if it can be avoided, but if the person is just going to revert to using if you force a reduction on them then it's counter-productive and pointless having them on a script at all really.
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There is little point in discussing the specifics of one individual, we clearly cannot be in possession of all the facts, all I see is speculation.

You make an interesting point though, are you suggesting that there is no value in providing people with a stable alternative to illicit opiates unless there is a definite commitment to abstinence ? I'm not entirely clear on the point and position you're taking
 
I don't think it's really for any of us to second guess what anybody's doctors and/or DSP have decided is appropriate. We can never know the full circumstances of anybody's situation and there are particular reasons Suboxone/Subutex is routinely prescribed at that particular level - it's cos that is known to be the sweetspot for a majority of people which more or less blocks cravings thus increasing the chances of avoiding relapsing onto the original DoC and sticking with the maintenance and tapering process all the way through. Same reason it's generally not the best idea to start taking more or less than your daily dose without first agreeing on it with your keyworker or consultant. Obviously there will always be exceptions but this is how it's always been explained to me - I've also been put on 12mg of Subutex for a large codeiene habit at one stage. They bump you up over a few days then hold you at that level until ready to begin the tapering process. At least this is my experience of a somewhat similar situation in the not-so-distant past.
 
No that's not what I'm saying.

I would say that unless people are making a commitment to stick to their script and not use on top then it's pointless really. In the case of people who are using on top then they're most likely going to be engaging in all the activities that are a detriment to society that they were before being on the script and it's not going to be reducing harm to them because they're still using street drugs. Obviously I don't expect everyone to stop using straight away just because they've been put on a script, it might take some time even for those who are commited to getting clean. The flipside of that point of view is that people need to be given a dosage that is enough to keep them good. There will however always be those that will want to use on top no matter how much you script them though.

The issue of long-term scripts is a complicated one that I don't really have any answer to. The whole thing is a complicated issue.

Personally I think diamorphine should be available as a replacement for a start, but only if people can stay clean from other drugs. I think that would be a great incentive for a great many more problematic users to move themselves out of the drug world they live in, which can be a great starting point for many people in the process of changing their life. I'd be happy to see methadone have it's licence removed tbh, it's a filthy opiate.
 
Re: Evey's dosage...she's said herself that she was fucked out of her head for a while when she switched over to the bupe, that should be ringing alarm bells for a kick off.
 
She's also said she was craving codeine until they got her up to 12mg. As you say, it's not a straightforward black and white kinda issue. Treatment needs to be tailored to individual situations and there are often complicating factors.

I was mostly agreeing with you actually - people need to be on a dose which they will stick to cos they feel comfortable on it and don't have the desire to use on the side. What that actual dose (or indeed drug - some will get on better with methadone, other with a form of bupe, others perhaps some other treatment like prescribed DHC or d) other) happens to be in individual cases is really between patient and prescribing doctor.
 
snolly said:
Nope :( I have higher hopes for Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus which I've had on DVD for ages and which I am sure will be brilliant.
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Mega Shark vs 'anything' is quality viewing - Sharknado 1 was so funny but Sharknado 2 just got boring quickly :D
 
parttime crackhead said:
I think there are other circumstances.

I would get told to take a flying fuck to myself if I tried the same, for example.
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Same. Or if I'd really put some pressure on my doc I'd get a few bupes to do a controlled taper with, not a daily script of 12mg for more than a year.

BTW I recently read about "ALKS-5461" a mixture of buprenorphine and samidorphan, developed as antidepressant with really good results so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALKS-5461
 
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As has already being said, that starting dose is overkill, I call bullshit on the 12mg takes away most/all cravings...

No matter the dose, until you get into the swing of it, you're going to crave your drug of choice because while subs are very effective, theyre boring as hell for the 99%... Ive had scripted, 24mg, 12 mg and 8mg as starting doses for all similar sized habits at said time, I dont recall the 24mg being anymore effective than the 8mg..

I was using around .4 or .5 of gear a day prior to my last taper, the occasional days where id just have one, anyways, I started on 4mg of subs and was pretty much ok on the whole..

You're right, we dont know all the variables and reasons but I do feel the same as Owen, based on what we do know, Eveys prescriber has done a number on her.. remember evey, you dont have to just go with whatever they say, if you feel you want reduce, do it, tell them (calmly ;)) that its what you want, as long as you go in there with a well informed argument for your case they should, should respect your wishes.
 
Hang on, I haven't been on 12mg for more than a year. I was on 8mg for five months. I couldn't handle it, I was craving codeine major to the point I was drinking heavily like average a bottle of either gin/vodka/JD or 2-3 bottles of wine. I'd got myself banned from like 6 forums, was taking lots of citalopram and then being left without having strange electric feelings from my head n all sorts. Not even my family know all this part they think I was fine, I was visiting my key worker sobbing most appointments,

I'd even be jealous n resentful of someone in excruciating pain because they were taking codeine how messed up is that? I would literally think, crave and dream codeine - then I started having thoughts of doing Heroin, even went to the Other Drugs sub-forum and asked how I went about using it (which I'm ashamed of now, no disrespect to anyone else doing it) but I was fantasising about getting hold of stronger opiates and getting completely high and just forgetting everything....

I withheld a lot of this from my key worker for about five months and then one day I broke down in a recovery meeting and on my behalf and with my permission, one of the staff there phoned my keyworker and she got me an immediate appointment with my doctor (who's also a Psychologist) and he raised it to 12mg. When I was on that I actually felt a lot more stable - but also had a load of nasty side affects to go with it - but it was NICE, AT LAST to feel stable, not want a drink, not crave codeine.... I could look at codeine, talk to people on it and not care, not crave it, not want it, not feel a need for it - nothing I felt bloody free. And it reflects because when on here I went 4 months without any warnings / infractions...

Everything stopped feeling intense, music has always felt overly-powerful and intense but it feels OK now, I felt confident instead of being this nervous little mouse who was too scared to look anyone in the eye, keep touching my nose etc. It was like a gift from Heaven being on 12 mg.... accept for the bloody side affect.... I even started exercising and losing weight.... If I could always take it, I'd always take it... But I can't unfortunately and I feel like my key worker wants rid of me - so I tried to come off it....

And whilst I feel relieved I decided to go back to 8mg (took 10mg today) I kinda feel like I've failed because I didn't succeed in my mission... but I don't want to go back down that road of self-destruction. For some reason I've an issue and fear of "loss," and I get attached to things or people way to quickly.... Wish I knew why but I don't.... I don't seem to have interests I have obsessions/ addictions.... And I'm wondering if I should really be saying all this for fear that people will no longer want owt to do with me feeling I'm a right nutter :D

WOW I've rambled on like hell there..... Oh it's lovely to feel calm and serene again.... BED!

Evey
 
Also it's really lovely that you all care about Me like this but honestly I'm fine so please don 't get angry with my doctor. He's only trying to help me.

Honestly I've not got a worst habit please don't worry about me, OK?! You don't need to, honest xxxx

Tired sleepies time. Someone tell raas thanks from me, it was nice of him to try give me some advice.
I'm very lucky to have such a nice friend as raas n lucky to have EADD. You're all ace people. I think of us as family; row like ell but next day it's all forgotten n we're laughing over something like nothing happened. So incredibly glad I found BL. I didn't think I'd last here a month now I've almost been here a year.... wow!!!!

Like I said you guys are the best, just ace!... xxxx

Evey
 
So a lot of my Facebook buddies have started to receive this message.. and are understandably a bit spooked. Any of you guys seen this? (I don't really want to stir up all the anti-Facebook rhetoric though.. so be nice. :p)

lzJTXDY.jpg
 
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