• 🇬🇧󠁿 🇸🇪 🇿🇦 🇮🇪 🇬🇭 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
    European & African
    Drug Discussion

    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Gibberings CLXII - Animal Facts Fun Time

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jesus fuck that sounds bad

no SS for me thankyou pleasey yes indeedy
 
Last edited:
Shambles said:
Largely by the fact the two things bear no relation to each other, Raas. SS involves unfeasible levels of physical agony and intense delirium. A panic attack involves largely panicking about a thing. SS is not a thing you'd need to question - by the time you were in the grip of it you're incapable of any rational thought or action and anybody present would be dialling 999.
Click to expand...



I was reading on the MDx discussion threads of someone who was diagnosed with serotonin syndrome days AFTER taking mdxx, triggered from smoking weed.


Well I had an awful experience days after MDA, triggered from smoking/eating weed. I've always thought I had a severe panic attack, but now I'm wondering if it's SS as I match up to many of the listed symptoms, and also that person in MDxx discussion's experience is similar to my own.

Can you do me a favour Shambles, have a quick peruse of this and tell me if you think it could have been serotonin syndrome. I actually wrote a trip report about the experience as it was so severe.

Panic attack from hell - Post MDA - cannabis eaten

Sorry to take your time, but this is quite significant for me.

In return i'll erm, listen to all your music links or something
 
I'd have to agree with it being a panic attack - albeit a severe one with added complication of being extremely stoned too. I can see what you mean about there being some similarities to the symptoms of SS on paper but I think that is all it is - on paper the symptoms of SS can look remarkably similar to a whole range of states and conditions but in actuality they are so much more intense and beyond imagining that it's really unmistakable as being the real deal. I would also question how and why cannabis would or could trigger an intense overload of serotonin to the extent of causing SS - cannabis doesn't release serotonin afaik, no specifically anyway. It sounds to me like you took a shitload of MDMA (or possibly MDA or a combination as Mitsubishis did come in various combinations as I recall) and eating cannabis afterwards whilst your brain was still somewhat depleted and recovering triggered an unusually intense panic attack which was intensified and exacerbated by the fact you were also stoned - a bit of a spiral effect with the two feeding off each other and causing the symptoms to become far more pronounced than would perhaps be the case if your brain was fully stocked on brainchems and you were generally fit and well as opposed to recovering from a night of pretty heavy drug use.

To be fair, I only really have my own experience of SS to be going on and what I have read on the subject in general and if I were to write out what happened to me there would be points of similarity - the raised heartrate, the rolling eyes, the distorted perceptions - but I would strongly suspect the degree of symptom would be in a whole other realm to what you describe. For example, one of the most noticeable symptoms is fitting and convulsions (caused by the massively raised body temperature - I do believe what kills you with SS is basically boiling your internal organs to mush... well... along those lines, mush may be a slight exaggeration for effect). I don't think a person would likely be diagnosed with SS without the convulsions as it's a pretty intrinsic cause and effect thing.

Another example where it would be maybe more a matter of degree than complete difference would be the delusional aspects. You describe hearing voices and interacting with a television not realising it was a television - which is pretty delusional behaviour - but it's also not entirely uncommon for somebody who is incredibly stoned (particularly when they're using it orally which is waaaaaaaaaay more psychedelic and intense than smoking ever gets). The delusions I had were completely immersive - there was no sense of confusion or of acting strangely because I had no sense of self or of any other reality to compare my current state to. There was no internal monologue or feelings of panic or confusion or fear or anything - I simply reacted to compulsions, perceptions (however drastically altered they happened to be) and as such spent several hours marching about pissing on stuff (with me being a Storm God and that (at the time) - it's what we do, dontcha know) in between being collapsed on the mattress bent double (backwards) convulsing. Written down our two experiences would perhaps not seem so very different (aside from the more physical aspects perhaps) but I'm fairly sure that would be due to an inability to put into words or truly convey quite how it was in reality because there really are no words that can express the sheer ferocity and overwhelming, all-encompassing nature of symptoms that on paper seem fairly common and generic.

Obviously I'm not a doctor nor an expert on SS so I could never tell you for an absolute fact one way or the other but it really does read to me like a severe panic attack combined with the expected effects of eating cannabis - first time I ate cannabis I was borderline delirious for the best part of three days as I recall... or don't recall much of at all actually. I think people greatly underestimate how much stronger cannabis becomes when taken orally and everything you describe fits perfectly with a person eating cannabis whilst perhaps not at their best physically and mentally. Or just from eating cannabis at any time for that matter.

I'd say as a broad and general rule that if a person asks whether they had SS they didn't almost by definition - it's just not a thing there is ever any doubt over. It's also worth thinking about what it was that could possibly have caused SS in your situation as there was nothing that could conceivably have caused SS involved that I can see. Ecstasy alone doesn't tend to cause SS - in conjunction with certain other drugs, yes, but alone, no - and even if it did it was days later when serotonin levels would likely still be lower than normal rather than raised to life-threatening levels. There is no reason for SS to even be an option that I can see really. It has often been pointed out that the symptoms of SS fit with the symptoms of being intoxicated on just about anything if you just see them listed without the added context of severity - it's not uncommon for people to be convinced they must have had SS (was one fella in ED who was convinced he'd had it "dozens of times") but I really do think that if those people were to witness a case of SS actually happening they'd spot the difference rather easily.
 
My favourite part of that trip report Raas is you saying a prayer and then calling god stupid... lol....

Does sound fuckin awful though, glad ive never had the misfortune of suffering one...
 
SS is not that common - Folley did more damage than good on that point and planted the seed to the fine folk of ED that if you take two pills your going to get SS - FACT etc. People in that section are obsessed with it - they have the idea that a bad comedown = SS and then they start to freak out and over think things etc.
 
Last edited:
I happen to believe that freaking out and over-thinking things is at the root of a good 75% of drug 'psychosis' episodes too. Especially with weed.

A lot of the descriptions I read don't sound remotely like actual psychosis, and instead sound a lot like what used to simply be called 'the fear' when I were a lad. Similar to how the incidence of bad LSD trips hit a massive spike following the first press propaganda stories.

But hey, what do I know? It's not like I actually have a good idea of what I'm talking about or anything.
 
Shambles said:
I'd have to agree with it being a panic attack - albeit a severe one with added complication of being extremely stoned too. I can see what you mean about there being some similarities to the symptoms of SS on paper but I think that is all it is - on paper the symptoms of SS can look remarkably similar to a whole range of states and conditions but in actuality they are so much more intense and beyond imagining that it's really unmistakable as being the real deal. I would also question how and why cannabis would or could trigger an intense overload of serotonin to the extent of causing SS - cannabis doesn't release serotonin afaik, no specifically anyway. It sounds to me like you took a shitload of MDMA (or possibly MDA or a combination as Mitsubishis did come in various combinations as I recall) and eating cannabis afterwards whilst your brain was still somewhat depleted and recovering triggered an unusually intense panic attack which was intensified and exacerbated by the fact you were also stoned - a bit of a spiral effect with the two feeding off each other and causing the symptoms to become far more pronounced than would perhaps be the case if your brain was fully stocked on brainchems and you were generally fit and well as opposed to recovering from a night of pretty heavy drug use.

To be fair, I only really have my own experience of SS to be going on and what I have read on the subject in general and if I were to write out what happened to me there would be points of similarity - the raised heartrate, the rolling eyes, the distorted perceptions - but I would strongly suspect the degree of symptom would be in a whole other realm to what you describe. For example, one of the most noticeable symptoms is fitting and convulsions (caused by the massively raised body temperature - I do believe what kills you with SS is basically boiling your internal organs to mush... well... along those lines, mush may be a slight exaggeration for effect). I don't think a person would likely be diagnosed with SS without the convulsions as it's a pretty intrinsic cause and effect thing.

Another example where it would be maybe more a matter of degree than complete difference would be the delusional aspects. You describe hearing voices and interacting with a television not realising it was a television - which is pretty delusional behaviour - but it's also not entirely uncommon for somebody who is incredibly stoned (particularly when they're using it orally which is waaaaaaaaaay more psychedelic and intense than smoking ever gets). The delusions I had were completely immersive - there was no sense of confusion or of acting strangely because I had no sense of self or of any other reality to compare my current state to. There was no internal monologue or feelings of panic or confusion or fear or anything - I simply reacted to compulsions, perceptions (however drastically altered they happened to be) and as such spent several hours marching about pissing on stuff (with me being a Storm God and that (at the time) - it's what we do, dontcha know) in between being collapsed on the mattress bent double (backwards) convulsing. Written down our two experiences would perhaps not seem so very different (aside from the more physical aspects perhaps) but I'm fairly sure that would be due to an inability to put into words or truly convey quite how it was in reality because there really are no words that can express the sheer ferocity and overwhelming, all-encompassing nature of symptoms that on paper seem fairly common and generic.

Obviously I'm not a doctor nor an expert on SS so I could never tell you for an absolute fact one way or the other but it really does read to me like a severe panic attack combined with the expected effects of eating cannabis - first time I ate cannabis I was borderline delirious for the best part of three days as I recall... or don't recall much of at all actually. I think people greatly underestimate how much stronger cannabis becomes when taken orally and everything you describe fits perfectly with a person eating cannabis whilst perhaps not at their best physically and mentally. Or just from eating cannabis at any time for that matter.

I'd say as a broad and general rule that if a person asks whether they had SS they didn't almost by definition - it's just not a thing there is ever any doubt over. It's also worth thinking about what it was that could possibly have caused SS in your situation as there was nothing that could conceivably have caused SS involved that I can see. Ecstasy alone doesn't tend to cause SS - in conjunction with certain other drugs, yes, but alone, no - and even if it did it was days later when serotonin levels would likely still be lower than normal rather than raised to life-threatening levels. There is no reason for SS to even be an option that I can see really. It has often been pointed out that the symptoms of SS fit with the symptoms of being intoxicated on just about anything if you just see them listed without the added context of severity - it's not uncommon for people to be convinced they must have had SS (was one fella in ED who was convinced he'd had it "dozens of times") but I really do think that if those people were to witness a case of SS actually happening they'd spot the difference rather easily.
Click to expand...

Hey, I really appreciate the reply. Never expected you to take such consideration. Brilliant post.

It's worth noting that the marijuana I ingested was very minimal. Not enough to even feel high and the panic attack occurred 3 hours after consumption.

Shambles said:
as there was nothing that could conceivably have caused SS involved that I can see. Ecstasy alone doesn't tend to cause SS - in conjunction with certain other drugs, yes, but alone, no - and even if it did it was days later when serotonin levels would likely still be lower than normal rather than raised to life-threatening levels. There is no reason for SS to even be an option that I can see really. It has often been pointed out that the symptoms of SS fit with the symptoms of being intoxicated on just about anything if you just see them listed without the added context of severity - it's not uncommon for people to be convinced they must have had SS
Click to expand...

This is what I thought also. The reason my mind has changed, is because the poster in ED who was actually diagnosed with serotonin syndrome had it 3 days after taking a lot of MDxx, not while under the influence....it was also triggered from weed.

I too had the belief that you would need more than one serotonergic drugs in the system to produce it, but in light of aforementioned case made me reconsider. My case was so severe and physical I always suspected it was SS, (this is why I first came to BL) but posters told me it was a panic attack. I accepted this but have always been suspicious.


Shambles said:
and as such spent several hours marching about pissing on stuff (with me being a Storm God and that (at the time) - it's what we do, dontcha know)
Click to expand...

I shouldn't laugh but.... =D

I didn't experience any delusions like this, or have convulsions. Tough I claimed my stomach was hurting and couldn't feel hands and feet.


Shambles said:
You describe hearing voices and interacting with a television not realising it was a television - which is pretty delusional behaviour - but it's also not entirely uncommon for somebody who is incredibly stoned
Click to expand...

No this was actually a sheer coincidence, the TV was on in the next room and there was a advert playing aloud saying "Now that you have died, what are your golden memories" and similar words. Freaked me right out.
 
^ + 1 Yes that's the one. But 5-htp is not a drug.

It's more of a a naturally occurring amino acid and chemical precursor as well as a metabolic intermediate in the biosynthesis of the neurotransmitters serotonin and melatonin from tryptophan.

I sooo didn't paste that from wiki
 
Very good. =D

See - there's yer culprit. 5-HTP. Misguided Yank 'pre-loads' himself into serotonin syndrome. Or experiences a panic attack, tells the doctor what he's been taking and is diagnosed with serotonin syndrome. Probably took somebody's advice from ED, too. 8)

It's something I'm interested in, as I'm prescribed a drug which makes me prone to serotonin mishaps, yet I've never been told not to smoke weed with it. Almost the opposite, save for the fact that doctors can't explicitly recommend weed.
 
5-HTP is known to be a risk factor in causing SS in conjunction with drugs like MDMA I do believe.

That's a good article that Third Eye posted up there and well worth a read. In recent years the definition of SS has been widened and has started to go under a different name (Serotonin Toxicity (Syndrome) at the moment I think - the 'Syndrome' bit seems to come and go). I think what was previously considered to be SS would now be thought of as simply the most severe form of a wider collection of symptoms associated with excess of serotonin.
 
Can we get an extra custom title for Shambles that reads 'Storm God'? =D
 
I dreamt that i took heroin for the first time last night. I got pleasantly high in my dream, it's the first time i can recall this happening. I hope i get more dreams like this, its quite pleasant to get high in your dreams. As i have no intention of ever touching the stuff this will probably be the closest i ever get to it.
 
Afternoon Ben :) Hope you're good.

BL Ambassador ay, havent seen any. Do they get little flags at the front of their mouse do you think? No longer have to adhere to the BLUA??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top