Misc GHB dopamine rebound

[Supeudol]

Hey does anyone else notice that their body tends to get really hot (especially my face kind of goes flushed as well as I get some weird chill sensations and goosebumps sometimes). Especially after repeated dosing ever 4 hours, about 2.5 - 3grams 4 or 5 times a day?

 

[Supeudol]

Also, anyone know how long roughly dopamine rebound lasts from GHB?

I guess it can vary depending on how much is built up, but typically what is the norm/average?

 

[rickolasnice]

I think the dopamine rebound theory is widely accepted as being untrue..

1 theory is that GHB agonists are actually stimulating.. but GHB also binds to GABAb receptors, which is what puts you to sleep at higher doses.. then the GHB flushes from your system the GABAb receptors get freed up first, because GHB has lower binding affinity for them.. then you're left with action going on only at GHB receptor sites..

Sorry.. i didn't explain that very well..

I don't really believe this either.. because even small doses of GHB for me COULD put me to sleep if i tried.. it just feels too nice to waste xP Also, i find phenibut to be quite stimulating, although as with GHB.. it makes it easier to sleep on it if i tried.. and as far as i know.. that acts primarily on GABAb receptor sites..

 

[rickolasnice]

Oh yeah..

Another theory which makes loads more sense is that the GHB and GABAb receptors down regulate for a while.. which will be what causes the stimulated feeling.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

i definetly felt the rebound when i was using gbl. i had about 150ml of it and just used it several times a day for about 2 weeks. when i was done i actually started to fall asleep one night and felt like i was having a heart attack. i felt my heart actually stop and it scared the shit out of me. i was on paxil too, so my anxiety was under control for the most part. i do attribute this event to a rebound from the ghb (converted to in my body).

 

[Supeudol]

Interesting.. I wonder if tapering down would help this a bit. I have only been using G for the past 3 days pretty steady so it shouldn't be too big of a problem.

 

[Jamshyd]

Oh yeah..

Another theory which makes loads more sense is that the GHB and GABAb receptors down regulate for a while.. which will be what causes the stimulated feeling.

That is likely true. My experience with GHB is that the longer it is used chronically, the worse its after-effects become. Basically after a couple of weeks of continuous use, I notice that you're basically in withdrawal as soon as the effects wear off.

 

[Supeudol]

Well, I'm kind of scared and don't want to get into another bind with addiction, a 5 year benzo addiction was enough for me.

I'd like to be able to use this NaGHB powder just recreationally and instead of having a few drinks with friends, use some G instead because I find G way more euphoric and safer than booze IMO.

So I just got out of rehab about 2 months ago from a heavy benzo habit and oxycodone habit.

The past 3 days I have been hitting G pretty heavy, like 2.5 - 4 grams every 4-6 hours. I notice when it wears off now I am getting some tachycardia, pretty anxious, edgy, and sensitive to external stimuli.

I don't have any benzo's (nor do I want to fucking go there again really). All I have is some 50mg Lyrica capsules I am prescribed (but haven't been taking them lately). and 10mg Paxil, as well as 100mg Trazodone.

Any suggestions for me to ease up some of these symptoms? What if I tapered down my use of G if I could, would this help? I don't think I should need to see a doctor after a small 3 day bender on G.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Jamshyd]

^ If you think benzo withdrawal is bad, wait till you see GHB withdrawal. Like I said in many other places on BL, I have experienced Heroin, Amphetamine, Bezo, and GHB withdrawals, and I can say that GHB is worse than all the others combined.

If you are using heavily now, you WILL NOT be able to "tame" it. It ONLY gets worse form here on. I successfully tapered Benzos and Heroin, but GHB seems to be completely immune to tapering. I will advise you flush your GHB down the toilet and insult your source so that you can't get anymore.

GHB is the worst and most under-reported addiction that I know of. My last dose of GBL was more than 2.5 years ago, yet I STILL feel that something never got back to where it used to be before GBL/GHB.

As for easing the symptoms.... apparently there aren't many things that would help. Some people say that taking anti-cholinergics like diphenhydramine (benadryl) helps, but I learnt this after I was done with the withdrawal so I cannot attest.

The only thing you can do is stop now before it gets MUCH worse.

 

[Supeudol]

^ Actually I have been through GHB withdrawal before, and no IMO it is not NEAR as bad as benzodiazepine withdrawal. I had a heavy benzo habit, and the thing with benzo withdrawal as it can last years or more, whereas GHB withdrawal - most symptoms subside within 21 days.

 

[hydrochron]

Benzo withdrawal is only as bad is you want to make it. A slow taper with valium and some positive thinking can get you along way.

 

[amanitadine]

Oh yeah..

Another theory which makes loads more sense is that the GHB and GABAb receptors down regulate for a while.. which will be what causes the stimulated feeling.

this is true, but there is more to the picture. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, having profound effects on dopamine, serotonin, acteylcholine, glutamate, etc. So when the elevated GABA levels return to normal, these formerly inhibited neurotransmitters start acting with a vengeance. And yes, the GHB receptors are surmised to be more stimulating than inhibitory.

As far as OTC, nothing comes close to phenibut in providing relief. A few grams tapered over a couple days will stop withdrawal completely in its tracks and you can be back to "normal" in a matter of days. If you can source it Baclofen ,(p-chloro phenibut) is even more effective, with much less peripheral side effects. 60-80 mg will abate most of the withdrawal symptoms from a 30ml a day GBL habit or 50 grams of NaGHB. GHB withdrawal is *really* nasty but almost all agree it is less severe, of shorter duration, and with no lasting side effects, unlike the protracted agony and seeming brain damage of long term Benzo use. But, as Jamshyd has experienced, some beg to differ. It really varies in how it effects people. I know people that use 24/7 for months and months and have virually no withdrawal and others, like myself, who even after years of abstinence one 24 hr session will induce nasty withdrawal. YMMV. :D

 

[Jamshyd]

^ I enjoyed GHB more than most people do (it basically felt orgasmic to me all the time), and I suffered from it more than most people do.

That said, as hydrocarbon mentioned, a slow taper makes benzo withdrawal bearable. GHB, on the other hand, seems to be impossible to taper. The extreme anhedonia after the withdrawal lasted for more than a year.

 

[amanitadine]

^^^ yeah, i enjoy it more than most too. It was just a perfect *fit*. Like NMDA antagonists, . I usually get pretty severe anhedonia for about a month, and then mostly back to normal, with some residual sleep disturbances. One lasting effect, which seems to take a few months to go away, is that my sex drive is greatly reduced after a lengthy binge. Like, reduced to the point where even the concept is yucky :D which is in stark contrast to the hypersexualised inhibition free maniac geebee turns me into!! And yeah, tapering NEVER worked out for me. There are a couple of diehards over in EADD that swear by it but most have no luck......

 

[Jamshyd]

You know what you're talking about (particularly the comment about NMDA antagonists)

For me, the broken sex drive remained for more than a year, and I can say that I STILL have very imbalanced sexual impulses. But I don't know what the scope of your habit is, for me I was taking huge doses of GBL rectally, every 2 hours, for about 2 months non-stop.

As for the withdrawal, it resembeled what I read about Delerium Tremens (full with voices in my head..etc) and probably the only reason I didn't have seizures was because I was on gigantic doses of benzos (which didn't do much else).

Never again.

 

[Supeudol]

So guys i'm in a little bit of bind here and I have no benzo's.. but hopefully my Phenibut will be here this week. I have been on a 5 day NaGHB bender, dosing approximately 3 grams every 4-6 hours. When my dose wears off, I just feel pretty anxious, and have some tachycardia that comes in waves.. I don't have any benzo's at all. I am hoping I will be okay, just quitting C/T. Phenibut would help I imagine but I don't know for sure if it will be here in time.

I don't really want to seek a doctor because my family doc knows about my addiction history and will not script any benzo's or opiates for me.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[amanitadine]

Supeudol - With the scope of yr habit you should be really be alright. The withdrawal is gonna come on strong but peak quite quickly and be over (the major part) soon. I know the first symptoms are really disconcerting (tachycardia, sounds inflicting physical pain, sweaty, high blood pressure) but it is possible to ride it out at the doses and frequency you are at. When it really kicks up to intolerable most people are redosing at minimum every 1-2 hrs. The phenibut would provide the easiest way out but is not an absolute necessity. It is available retail OTC if you look around hard enough as well. And yeah, you are already ahead of the game concerning most docs and their knowledge of ghb, and most are pretty unwilling to hand out benzos to a geebee addict sight unseen due to liabilty. Some find relief with small doses of diphenhydramine (benadryl) due to its anticholinergenic action. Just keep it small (50 mg or so) because higher doses really add to the unreal psychotic nature of GHB withdrawal. And, for what it is worth, most find the withdrawal symptoms from NaGHB far less severe than that of GBL. Just keep well hydrated and the worst shall be over in around 24 hours. my heart goes out to you

jamshyd - yeah i dont miss the WD either, although I oft pine for certain aspects of the high. I mercifully I haven't had to go thru with it in a long time. My never again actually seems to be holding water this time! My habit had reached epic proportions since the late nineties (on the first crest of the GHB frenzy) and the worst time was in 2003 when my nefarious psychedelic activities led to my arrest....i must say cold turkey GBL withdrawal while staring down the barrel of a couple year prison sentence was the most unpleasant experience of my life. And yes, rectal administration was by the best ROA :D My withdrawals too were amazingly psychedelic.....full on hallucinations, bizarre thought looping and hell fantasies, etc. And as far as NMDA antagonists go, I see you too have some experience with the 3 Meo subbed varieties...have you tried the 3 MeO PCE? Last night was sublime....such a weird manic joke!

On a related note, I just spoke to a friend who is in the midst of a series of flights to Peru. This friend has a multiple month 24/7 GBL habit. He brought some in his carry on baggage but the bulk of his supply was in his checked bags. One of his flights was delayed 24 hrs and he is now stranded in some god forsaken airport without his checked bags undergoing severe withdrawal. Uggghhh. My heart goes out to him as well.

You will be ok, hang in there!!

 

[Jamshyd]

^ That sounds like a horrible experience! And yes, one of the main anti-addictive measures I have is that my passion for travel (or at least, the ability thereof) outweighs my passion for drugs - though I suppose I am lucky that I don't have hookups for Heroin or other powerful opioids. Therefore I am unable to remain addicted. The strangest experience I had was withdrawal from high doses of Tramadol after a year-long habit: I popped it like candy since it is available in bulk OTC in Thailand, but when I went to India, I decided I better quit there because it would be ugly coming back to Canada. The withdrawal lasted 2 weeks, almost exactly the duration of my stay. Thankfully, they also have Ketamine OTC in India .

Re: 3-MeO-PCE, nope. The propyl analoge, though, I did not like. I much prefer K to all other dissociatives.

 

[Jamshyd]

So guys i'm in a little bit of bind here and I have no benzo's.. but hopefully my Phenibut will be here this week. I have been on a 5 day NaGHB bender, dosing approximately 3 grams every 4-6 hours. When my dose wears off, I just feel pretty anxious, and have some tachycardia that comes in waves.. I don't have any benzo's at all. I am hoping I will be okay, just quitting C/T. Phenibut would help I imagine but I don't know for sure if it will be here in time.

I don't really want to seek a doctor because my family doc knows about my addiction history and will not script any benzo's or opiates for me.

Any help would be appreciated.

Several people have told me that a normal dose of diphenhydramine (50mg?) worked wonders for GHB withdrawal. You may wanna give it a try. If you do, please let us know how it works out.

 

[Supeudol]

I will give the diphenhydramine a try when I get to the store, for now I am just using Phenibut, and so far seems to be working okay.

Hmm one of these side effects/symptoms that kind of is annoying and bothersome is "dilated pupils" - I don't know if it has to do with GHB withdrawal as well, but even when I use heavy doses of G, my pupils tend to dilate. Do all GABA-B Agonists dilate the pupils? Anyone else get this?