Getting off methadone use and a previous 1yr bupe addiction - wut to expect???

[celsior]

Hi guys.

I dunno where to start. Its been 2 yrs now since I moved over from codeine/tramadol to ms contins/subutes/methadone.

I have a great job, which I love. Early dec I had an appifany and I saw that i was getting so thin n weak that my body told my; GET OUT, NOW, before the job and apt is gone - and then yourself...

So I went to my doctor, told him everything. He was, to say it mildly, shocked of course. My history: It all started in 2011 with a badass neck. When I recovered from neckinjury I started to do opiods recreationally. It started with codeine, then trams and then burpenorphine, morph and now methadone. Since about summer of '12 I did the HUGE mistake of doing it everyday, that was on bupe. Not much, about a 1mg a day. Went on vacations with me, took it to work... In oct '13 i switched to methadone, about 10-15mg EOD, plus of course the "weekendwarrior"/party 30-35mg fri+sat every weekend. I did the swith (in oct '13) between bupe-methadone b/c suddenly one october monday, my body wouldnt tolerate the switch from the weekend methadone binge to the everyday buprenorphine (mon to fri) anymore. I am stunned the whole scheme worked for so long when I think abt it... Jesus f***in christ, how could I be so f***in dumb.

Anyway. I know I fucked up badly. But hey, its been a blast, Ive felt the most wonderful euphoria - over n over again. And now it has to stop. I see I will never advance in my job or get a better place to live if I keep on doing this. Not to speak of what I am doing to my body.

So my doctor is now prescibing atarax (hydroxizin) for the "nice" time I will start to experience as of from friday 10th. I have taken 2 weeks off, nxt week plus another one. My doc says that I am in for one hell of a ride, and I know that. But I am a little curious as to how long before those worst WDs will subside? I know it could take a month, heck I dunno, maybe more? But for the love of god, please give me your input 'cus god knows I need it. As far as I can see them worst physical ones will be day 2-3-4 and from there on farily bad but bearable until day 10, and then it will subside. Am I right or wrong in my researching?

I will be visiting my doc and a clinic during withdrawing, tho I dunno how often (I will know tomorrow, I have my last appoint. with the doc before WDing). I am already getting mentally prepared and I am currently down to 6mg every 12 hrs, will taper down even more, if I can. But I have to function at work tomorrow and friday so I can not go too low. I am thinking of another approx 5 mg before bedtime tonite plus 1mg valium.

This has to work - or else I will be so f*** screwed. I can not do just a lil bit of methadone every day anymore, it has to stop. The good thing is that I have had my limits even in the weekends: Never over 100mg ms contin at once, never over 35mg methadone at once, dosing usually just once every 24 hrs. This is weekendwise. In work days, max 10-20mg methadone (mon-fri). And I have been on EOD with the methadone for just those 3,5 months... But keep in mind before that a full year with bupe EOD, low dose 0,5 to 1 mg EOD. Who knows, maybe I can live through this?

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey celsior. I kicked methadone and roxy and xanax at the same time. Yeah kicking methadones going to be a ride. nut if I can do it so can you and I kinked 150 mgpd and that was just the methadone. It took about two and a half weeks for me to start to feel better.. and then I felt just a sliver better everyday until I felt pretty ok around 8 weeks.. then the second miracle happened when my opiate receptors shut down finally around month five. Its rough but you can do it.. if I can then so can anybody.. just have to accept the fact that your going to feel pretty rough for awhile. Since you told your doctor whats up you will likely find a huge amount of relief in these medications..

The medications I would explore the use of for detox would be:
>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE<
OR >Lyrica<
OR >phenibut<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol

you can do this

 

[celsior]

Hi dearest neversickanymore

Ok. So I spoke to my doc and the clinic. My doc said, lets just go for the atarax - take up to 4(!) tablets at once if you need 3x a day. Holy moly. If they dont help me sufficiently, then he or the clinics' doc will prescribe clonidine. Now for the valium, which I in fact have, he wasnt very positive about it, other than to be very, very careful with it. But I have valium if things turn really nasty at nite, in which it prolly will. There is even a shrink at the clinic which said he will call me if he and another specialist will come up with something else to add to my anti-WD arsenal. I'll call him tomorrow about that.

I took 9mg this morning just to get me up. I am guessing I'll go for 25mg morphine and 2mg valium for tonite.
For my last dose, tomorrow morning, just to get me through work, I am going too of course dose as low as possible. But I am guessing I'll be able to go as low as 6 or 7 mg methadone. Hopefully this 'sort-off' rapid tapering, will help me somewhat. The shit will hit the fan on sat/sun/mon/tue and then maybe it'll get a little easier...

This is a lil scary to ask about, but, are you completely sober, nsickagain? You've never gone back, say just for one weekend once a while..?

 

[herbavore]

Celsior, congratulations on your honesty with your doctor and cliniic--that took courage. You know that you can't "go back" for just one weekend. It didn't work like that the first time and it won't work like that any time. What you are going to go through is hard because it is an addiction for both your body and your mind. It may have felt like a choice you made to take it, but other than the first few times, it wasn't. It called the shots. Don't undermine your courage and resolve which are strong right now with thoughts of some future where you can occasionally use. In a way, each thought like that is a door you have to go through to get into the next passageway. See it as a thought that is addiction speaking--not you--and open the door and leave it behind. I admire your honesty.

 

[neversickanymore]

Your kicking methadone.. sorry but IMO your doctor is not doing any where near the best thing for you.. please see another one and get the right medications. The neurontin will be your best medication and clonidine will help greatly. I would nicely call your doctor and tell them that you want this to be success and as you will already be miserable enough there is no need for you to be more miserable because of their incompetence.. or maybe something a little more tactful. If this doesn't work then go see another doctor who is more intelligent. If you do not get these medications then you are going to feel really rough. I do not know anything about the medication he is having you use but I would love if you would report its findings.

restless legs and neuropathic pain will likely be your worst syptoms and the especially with the nerve pain and restless legs associated with opiate with drawls the use of a GABA and really positive effects is undeniable at this point.. some doctors are not current with the times and need to be educated as to the amazing weapon these are in opiate detox.

Restless legs syndrome and related disorders

Restless Legs Syndrome

"More recently, gabapentin (Neurontin) has been found to have some benefit in treating restless legs syndrome" Source Above

"In chemical structure, phenibut is a phenyl derivative of GABA. Although the calming action is similar to other GABA agonists, phenibut binds to the GABAB metabotropic receptor, the same site responsible for the sedative effects of baclofen (the para-chloro derivative of phenibut) and γ-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), although GHB also acts at the GHB receptor." phenibut

Gabapentin
"Gabapentin (Neurontin) is a pharmaceutical drug, specifically a GABA analog. It was originally developed to treat epilepsy, and currently is also used to relieve neuropathic pain."

Pregabalin
"Pregabalin appears to be as effective as gabapentin for neuropathic pain; however costs more"

"Certain epilepsy medications, such as gabapentin (Neurontin) and gabapentin enacarbil (Horizant), may work for some people with RLS." >source<

"An antiseizure agent, gabapentin enacarbil (Horizant), was approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 2011 for moderate-to-severe RLS. Common side effects included mild sleepiness and dizziness."

Source: Restless legs syndrome and related disorders | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/repor...-syndrome-and-related-disorders#ixzz2o2I850Zd
University of Maryland Medical Center

NSM- How long you think I can take Gabapentin for? I took 1200MG on Wednesday evening, 1800MG on Thursday evening and 3000 MG total yesterday afternoon/evening. Yesterday was the first time I finally got some relief, finally all seemed to kick in around 4 hours after first dose. I think the Gaba is part of why I feel so good today and may end up dosing again. Do you think they're would be WD after 5/6 days use. I'm taken Ambien the first 5 nights and nothing else besides 5MG of Xanax over the first 36 hours. (other than supplements, of course)

I know everyone is different. But you seem to be a big proponent of the GABA, and are the reason I have tried. And fuck, for anyone paying attention, shit is a miracle drug for opiate withdrawal. Anyone, can you at least ball park it? A week? A few days? When you're recommending, what's the time frame?

gabapentin is very effective, and more so than it is its sister drug pregabalin, or lyrica. you should have no problem getting off them after a few weeks use. the problem though with using them, especially when you find the correct dose, is that withdrawals become so easy that using again becomes all the more tempting.

usually, everytime i'm in withdrawal i think to myself "fuck, i wish i had a taste of this feeling before i used again". but when you go down the gabapentin route, you ask yourself that question much less. in either case, they're extremely effective and can erase almost all of the withdrawal symptoms. they also help manage the symptoms that drive us to use after the withdrawals are over, or as NSA mentioned the post-acute phase.

Please read through the links there. You can and will do this

EDIT: just take the benzos at night because you will be in withdrawal long enough to possibly develop a physical dependence on these and that can be a really bad thing. But if you only take them at night and get off as soon as you can you will be fire. Also the use of the GABAs can also become physically dependence so please exit off those as soon as you are able to as well. With the use of them to just get you through the physical withdraws of the methadone and then tapering those and stopping them you have little chance of developing an issue with them.. you can do this!!!

also please look through this before you get sick as it good to kinda know whats coming and plan a recovery that allows you to live the most peaceful and happy life while pushing through all this..
Why We Don’t Get Better Immediately: Post-acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS)
Post Acute Withdrawal (PAW) Excerpted From “Staying Sober” By: Terence T. Gorski
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome Wiki

 

[celsior]

nsickanymore: OMG. The worst thing is that it looks like you're right. My closest native language speaking forum (flashback.org) is confirming what you are saying; clonidine and gabapentin will take most of the WDs away.

Atarax is the northern european version of Vistaril! But it'll work somewhat, yes..?

I'll call my contact at the clinic, this shrink guy, to get me in contact with their specialist doctor and ask politely if they can prescribe me some neurontin (gaba) and catapresan (clonidine). I just hope that work, heck I think ill just visit them.

Which days will be worst - is it obviously day 2-3-4-5..?

Herbavore: Courage, yes that may be, but Ive seen the light. I realize now that I am simply fighting for my life here. I have an 11 yr old son, a beautiful GF, great job. Have to quit now - before it'll be all gone. Christsake, when I cant even go on vacation anymore b/c I am afraid I will loose my meds or I'll be sick for some other reason and the hopital wont now wjat to do, 10000miles away from home, then what could happen. Lol I am rambling. Talk abt being scared straight.

I'll talk to the clinic tomorrow. Thank you so much for your advice!

PS: How often do i take the neurontin and the clonidine? 2x, 3x a day, should I ask for 400mg capsules or what?

 

[celsior]

A specialist called me from the clinic. YES!!! It is confirmed they've been using GABA the last 6 months against opiod WDs here in Scandinavia. My own doctor has been contacted about it, i will most likely get it!

The specialist said; 600mg or so dosed 3x a day for 10 days, then taper down, say a 100mg thru every dosing

It might even work so well that i'll be able to even go to work! Wow!

 

[celsior]

Ok. Here's wut Ive got:

A shitload of: Valiums, GABA 300s, clonidines, Vistarils.

Its been 15 hrs since my very last methadone dosage, which was just a puny 5mgs. So of course I got mild WDs abt an hr ago or so. Well, I called the clinic to ask them when to start taking all of this - and in which order. The nurse on duty and I agreed upon 1 25mcg clonidine and 1 25mg Vistaril (hydroxyzine). When the nervepain starts to show up by tomorrow, then I can start to take the GABAs. When I wanna sleep, just go for half a Valium.

So now I feel A-ok after dosing one clonidine and one Vistaril, in fact I kinda feel a lil stoned

 

[neversickanymore]

Thats great news.. this is going to be uncomfortable but you are going to make it through. Do you have anything planned to keep your mind off the withdrawal? Nice work so far, way to take an really active approach!!!

 

[celsior]

Pushing through day 2 now. Lethargy pretty bad, can bearly walk. Vistaril/Valium taken together working ok enough for the anxiety. Very light pain/RLS, took tylenol and 1x 300mg GABA, doesnt work to good tho, no change. Ill post more later, pretty exhausted.

Thx for advice and support!

 

[neversickanymore]

Hang in there you doing great.. tomorrow is when its really going to start.. I think your goi9ng to have to give the GABA a little time to work.. what is the dosing they have set up for you on that. Please remember that these medications will help but you are still going to be detoxing. The fatigue was really bad for me as well but getting up and moving around can help.. hot showers can help as well.. your doing it.. keep it up.. you can do this

 

[neversickanymore]

How are you doing C.. hanging in there.. you can do this.. remember that its not permanent.. just make the descion that no matter what your not going to use and your going to power through. Mastebation can help as well relive some of the restless legs. If you are having some trouble with bowl movements then a stool softener in the begining if you have hard stool can help.. Docusate Sodium is what I would recommend as a stool softener.

YOU CAN AND WILL DO THIS.. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT.. FIGHT TILL YOU MAKE IT OUT OF THE WOODS!!!

 

[celsior]

Hi nsickanymore.

Ending day 3; cold n hot flashes, mild RLS. Today was not worse than day 2. Fought WDs with alot of valium, some vistarils, 1 imodium and 2x300mg GABAs. I am doing fine. It seems like as of tonite, approaching day 4, that WD symptoms are getting less profound.

I can now see that I will make it. I even did 2 sets of pushups earlier this afternoon. I am planing on hitting the gym on tuesday. Benchpresses. It has been 2 yrs since I did anything like that.

Thk u so much for the GABA and clonidine advice, it meant everything!!! However, the Vistaril i suspect actually made things worse, especially when waking up, due to it being an histamine. And we all know what histamines do - they produce hangover symptoms ike lethargy. I guess it's a small price to pay since they do calm me down. I want off that crap asap, but at the same time I dont want another addiction, benzos (diazepam).

Im ok

 

[neversickanymore]

Thats awesome news celior.. I think your ideas on getting off the bezos, Gaba, and Lope as soon as you are able to do so is the very best approach. The other thing I would recommend is that you keep your workouts really light until after the acutes have subsided. The reason I suggest you think about this is that heavy workout actually can increase the adrenals, the very reason you are taking the clonidine is to try and limit the adrenal response. Im so glad you are doing well!

Keep pushing!!!

 

[celsior]

Hi. Approaching day 6; Vistarils and valium do not work for proper sleep, maybe I am not taking enough... So tired. Slept 4 hrs day before and maybe 2,5 hrs last nite. Other than that; yeah ya guessed it, lethargy! I sure hope it'll let up soon. Been out every day, today visited turkish bath, steam sauna, did 1 set of pushups - it was all i could muster today. And tried to repair one of our cars in a f****in snowstorm, yea, we're now getting what the US had a couple of weeks ago. Nice. Result, constant cold feet.

 

[herbavore]

Stay warm, celsior--soup and tea!

 

[celsior]

I will, thk u herb

Got leave of absence till feb 13th feb. Just ordered ticket to someplace warm Screw this chilly place, plus I need to get some change into my daily life, instead of hanging around in this one bedroom apt. I could go crazy ya know.

The worst is over, tho the insomnia is still there. It'll be interesting to see how the body will react to trying to sleep tonite. I do not want to dose another valium.

 

[neversickanymore]

Your doing great celsior.. good move on getting out.. no reason to sit around.. get up and get moving.. just try to accept the fact that your not going to sleep good for awhile.. I didn't sleep for over four hours for five months.. I made it and so will you.. once you come off the detox meds you will wake up after four hours and feel pretty good.. your doing amazing C.. fight fight fight.. your doing it celsior!!!!!

 

[celsior]

Day 7: Got back on the neurontin b/c of RLS. Did not take any Vistaril nor valium last nite - took just 1 GABA which actually knocked me the f*** out at around 12am. Slept 6 hrs. But it wasn't enough b/c I feel exhausted. Gonna leave on monday. But overall, I'll survive And I'll keep posting.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Good luck with your detox. Thinking of you