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getting off methadone? help?

K

klauts

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Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Messages
18
so let me begin by saying that im a 19 y.o male living in canada who recently decided to start drinking alot of poppy tea and smoking opium as a reaction to my doctor telling me i wasnt aloud to smoke pot if i wanted to remain his patient so a couple weeks and a piss test later my doctor decides im a heroin addict and doesnt believe me when i tell him id just been smoking opium and drinking poppy tea so what happens next bam im on methadone maintenance its been almost two months of being on methadone now and the more i read the more afraid i am that i permanently screwed myself over. ive asked my doctor to ween me off of it and he wont so now i want to try and do it myself i was just wondering if anyone has any suggestions to help me kick this stuff like how often can i decrease my dose and what would happen if i tried to quit cold turkey??? im currently on a 40mg daily dose... thanks and best regards,
klauts

my plan so far is to not take my dose every second day(i have to have 1 witnessed ingestion every 2 days) until i have a reasonable amount and then just stop going to the clinic and saying goodbye to that doctor forever and proceeding to use my stock pile to slowly taper myself. i just cant decide wether i should keep playing the doctors game long enough to get weekly carries or if i should just stop now while im ahead... if i even am :(
 
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Your doctor is a fucking moron plain and simple. All i can say is find a doctor that actually knows what they are fucking doing. Ya i know that's not easy to do in Canada these days especially with the archaic way they hand out methadone prescribing licenses to docs but i think you should really try. If you try and do this on your own you could end up withdrawing very fucking badly as methadone is nowhere near as easy to get off as shorter acting opiates like oxycodone, morphine, heroin, etc.

So yeah my advise would be to do it under a doctors supervision if at all possible. Also you could possibly sue this doctor for being such a fucking moron in the first place but make sure your clear of him first.
 
i already looked into finding a different doctor and theirs only one MD licensed to deal with methadone here i would have to move to another town to try and get a doctors help...as for suing him dont think thats possible over here in canada although if i played my cards right it would probably be pretty easy to get him audited but the only thing that would accomplish is leaving alot of other people intown who actually need it without a source for there methadone. but yea this guy definately doesnt know what the fuck hes doing it makes me wonder how many other people he's gotten hooked without any good reason. i mean prior to this i can honestly say i've never been addicted to anything other then cannabis and tobacco. now if anyone were to see me at the clinic or find my bottle at home id instantly look like a junky and to top it off my permanent record now says im an ex heroin addict. the worst part about the whole thing is feeling like i have to hide my useage as if i actually were a junky sorry for the rant i just feel so torn right now :!

i also have a source for tramadol 50mg and 60mg codeine's but i could only afford like 30 50mg pills of tramadol or 40 of the codeine's and im not even sure if it would even help at all...its like im tied down by an invisible ball and chain that noone can see but me
 
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Jesus sorry man that sounds rough :( . That doctor really is a cunt and yes you can sue them if you have cause as i once learned too late from a lawyer. I assume you live in a atleast suburban area where methadone docs are hard to get hell even i only know one where i live :\ . So yeah it's a sorry state of affairs indeedy :|

I don't know much about tapering off methadone except that you should do it very very slowly. I have come off of oxycodone, morphine and dilaudid but Ive never been on methadone so I'm not much help as those are easier to get off then methadone since they are shorter acting. Use the BL search engine as there should be info on this somewhere plus im sure there are plenty of people here who have been in similar situations so they could probably give you some advice.

Keep your head up

Codeine does help withdrawals by the way but methadone is different so i doubt it would help much in your situation but i could be wrong. Tramadol has always sucked for me plus the withdrawals from tramadol can be brutal.
 
thanks for the replies :) im not even sure what opiate withdrawal feels like i think thats the other reason im so freaked out usually when i take a substance i know what im getting myself into this was a completely different story. i'll keep this thread updated on how im doing just because i feel like it might help a bit to have support from others who have gone through this or similiar situations. and who knows maybe this thread will end up helping someone else out one day
 
Ask to cahnge to subutex. Its easier than methadone taper under supervision then a week on Lofexidine. I swear by lofexidine absolutaly no physical withdrawal. Add some benzos for anxiety and your a week away from being clean.

Good luck matey.

may i add i have just completed this detox and feel fantastic now.
 
clubfut said:
Ask to cahnge to subutex. Its easier than methadone taper under supervision then a week on Lofexidine. I swear by lofexidine absolutaly no physical withdrawal. Add some benzos for anxiety and your a week away from being clean.

Good luck matey.

may i add i have just completed this detox and feel fantastic now.
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You may want to remember that noone here is a doctor also you can only get suboxone in Canada not subutex. You can get buprenorphine patches here called buprex but they are new and expensive as fuck and judging by the doses probably not any good for addiction. Plus they are meant to be prescribed for moderate chronic pain not addiction. Lofexidine is not available here as far as i know but it is pretty much the same as clonodine which is used here alot for withdrawal and i myself have used it many times for withdrawal. It helps with some of the symptoms such as hot/cold flashes, sweating, helps somewhat with insomnia and those rushes of blood pressure you get during WD as well. But on it's own i don't find it to ork great so it only helps me mixed with other meds. Also clonodine can create a addiction that can be life threatening due to rebound hypertension so i have never taken it for longer then a few days at a time.

As for benzos i would suggest not adding that addiction to your list. Benzo addiction like WD from all gaba drugs can be far worse and far more dangerous (depending on the habit) then opiate withdrawal so if you have to use them use them sparingly is all i am going to say.
 
yea i didnt think those drugs were available here and id already considered clonidine.... as for the benzo thing i've been taking valium for 3 years 60mg(for major GAD) a day and i can stop taking them cold turkey for days without any withdrawal symptoms at all i know that this is EXTREMELY RARE but i personally havent ever had any of the withdrawal symptoms associated with benzos other then occasional insomnia and the odd panic attack. never any signs of seizures or muscle spasms or psychosis so im not to worried about using benzos to ease withdrawal symptoms if they'll help because their something i know i can deal with.also i was just reading that gabapentin can help with the moodswing and musce pain part of methadone withdrawals and was wondering if anyone had tried gabapentin for withdrawal themselves? i've taken it in the past for my GAD but it caused me to become hyper excitable (talking wayyyy to fast not able to sit still for more then 5 minutes etc...wich in the end led me to stop taking them but if they could help ease the methadone withdrawals it might be worth another try especially since i still have )
 
klauts said:
yea i didnt think those drugs were available here and id already considered clonidine.... as for the benzo thing i've been taking valium for 3 years 60mg(for major GAD) a day and i can stop taking them cold turkey for days without any withdrawal symptoms at all i know that this is EXTREMELY RARE but i personally havent ever had any of the withdrawal symptoms associated with benzos other then occasional insomnia and the odd panic attack. never any signs of seizures or muscle spasms or psychosis so im not to worried about using benzos to ease withdrawal symptoms if they'll help because their something i know i can deal with.also i was just reading that gabapentin can help with the moodswing and musce pain part of methadone withdrawals and was wondering if anyone had tried gabapentin for withdrawal themselves? i've taken it in the past for my GAD but it caused me to become hyper excitable (talking wayyyy to fast not able to sit still for more then 5 minutes etc...wich in the end led me to stop taking them but if they could help ease the methadone withdrawals it might be worth another try especially since i still have )
Click to expand...

Valium has a very long half life that causes it to build up which is why many people can go days with no withdrawal symptoms at all. Often with benzo withdrawals you just get hit out of the blue with bad withdrawal symptoms and you don't want that happening especially at the dose your on. As for gabapentin i take that for neuropathic pain and it does help alot with restless legs and other WD symptoms but like everything else it is by no means a wonder drug.
 
I think the plan you suggested in the original post sounds good. Dosing every other day is legitimate with long-acting opiates like bupe and methadone.

You have two things in your favour: 1) you're only on a low dose and 2) you haven't been taking it for long.

When I reduced from 90mg methadone I cut it by 10mg weekly and that was ok. And it seems to be the case with bupe and methadone generally that people can usually get right down to 2mg bupe/10mg methadone without any problems.

So if I were you I would go:

30mg (1 week)
20mg (1 week)
10mg (1-2 weeks)
5mg (2 -4 weeks)
2.5 or 0

If you struggle you can always slow it down.
 
suessmayr said:
i think the plan you suggested in the original post sounds good. Dosing every other day is legitimate with long-acting opiates like bupe and methadone.

You have two things in your favour: 1) you're only on a low dose and 2) you haven't been taking it for long.

When i reduced from 90mg methadone i cut it by 10mg weekly and that was ok. And it seems to be the case with bupe and methadone generally that people can usually get right down to 2mg bupe/10mg methadone without any problems.

So if i were you i would go:

30mg (1 week)
20mg (1 week)
10mg (1-2 weeks)
5mg (2 -4 weeks)
2.5 or 0

if you struggle you can always slow it down.
Click to expand...

this ^^
 
If I may ask, why did you even take the first dose of methadone? You could've refused to take it, right? From experience, it seems that someone refusing methadone from a doctor would usually make them rather happy!

As for the pharmacist, well, amass as much of the stuff as you can: you'll need to taper off very slowly and preferably by 1mg each time. The amount of time you need depends upon how long you've been on it: a couple of months' time doesn't sound like it'll be that hard, but it could be. It could be a very tough and dangerous process where you'll suffer. A lot.

Anyway, when can a pharmacist force a mentally competent and intelligent individual (like you, OP) to take a prescription? I know that it might've seemed like free opiates and thus a decent--and presumably--ever-lasting supply of free highs, but it's not going to help you at all in the long run. Trust me when I say this, for I've been on methadone for over a year now; I'm only at 100mg and it hurts to wake up! Your life must be scheduled according to your being chained to a pharmacy, regardless of where it is, and your need to visit it each day, every other day, or just twice--perhaps even once if you're lucky--a week. It's... an inconvenience; throw any ideas about holidaying out of the window: the next few months will be hard for you. I'm sorry. :-(

My own problems involve phenobarbital and other occasional sedatives and so my case may not apply to you. The poster mentioning legal action is right, for this ''doctor'' is a quack who refuses to listen to patients. Yes, patients lie--all patients lie, whether it's out of embarrassment, to cover up an affair or various other complicated issues, but people generally, as a whole, lie--and he seems to think that anyone caught with signs of opiate-use in their blood or urine must be an addict.

What if you'd been taking low-dose codeine-based painkillers (the OTC variety!) for a headache or muscular pain, etc? You'd be dead by now with that sort of prescription and diagnosis! I understand that one must be wary and on their guard when dealing with drug addicts, but this is beyond a joke; we're people too, though at times we can act like monsters and foul animals...

Take care and good luck with it all.

EDIT: When I say 1mg, I want to express that I say this purely to err on the side of caution. That schedule for tapering off above you will likely work like a charm, you'll feel minimal discomfort--though some discomfort is likely--and it would take far, far less time than 1mg every 2-4 days. If you're not receiving liquid-form methadone, well, congratulations on NOT having to taste that weird stuff that you grow to enjoy, all sugar-free and determined to destroy your teeth and leave your lips and mouth feeling slightly unpleasant. Yet, if you're getting it in pill-form, you're screwed as far as reliable dosages down to 1mg or less go. I think you can do it regardless! Again, good luck with this! :-)
 
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well i went in and talked to my doctor again today basically demanding to be taken off of the stuff he then told me it was impossible to quit methadone and not go back to harder drugs i once again tried telling him i wasnt doing hard drugs. finally after an hour of basically arguing with him and asking about the possibility of clonidine, bupe, etc.... i was lowered from 40mg to 35mg and givin 300mg pills of gabapentin to take 3 time daily and 30mg mirtazipine to take once daily and he said that if i came in next week and was doing ok he would switch me to subutex (wich is apparently available in canada now). but when i asked if id be able to be tapered off the subs he once again said it was impossible to taper without me going back to hard drugs *WTF?!?!?* he also changed it so i have to go the clinic 3 days a week instead of every second day. sooo i guess im going to have to keep playing his game seeing as i got myself into this mess :/ but hey now ill be able to get more carries in a week and it will be easier to stock up for the withdrawal. as for why i took it in the first place i guess i was curious and just a little pissed off at being called a junky by my doctor bad decision i know but hey the past is the past and theirs not much to be done about it. so i guess the main thing i wanna know is wether subutex is going to cause my teeth to rot out of my face and decay my bones and have all the horrible side effects of methadone or if it is a slightly better opiate in that respect? cause since being put on methadone i've been nauseous 24/7 and it hurts my teeth so bad to eat or drink anything to hot or cold. when i try and take a poo wich i've only been able to do about once a week theirs always blood. i feel like methadone is more poisonous and toxic to my body than any substance ive ever tried. thanks and sorry for the second rant :|
 
Kerrigan said:
If I may ask, why did you even take the first dose of methadone? You could've refused to take it, right? From experience, it seems that someone refusing methadone from a doctor would usually make them rather happy!

As for the pharmacist, well, amass as much of the stuff as you can: you'll need to taper off very slowly and preferably by 1mg each time. The amount of time you need depends upon how long you've been on it: a couple of months' time doesn't sound like it'll be that hard, but it could be. It could be a very tough and dangerous process where you'll suffer. A lot.

Anyway, when can a pharmacist force a mentally competent and intelligent individual (like you, OP) to take a prescription? I know that it might've seemed like free opiates and thus a decent--and presumably--ever-lasting supply of free highs, but it's not going to help you at all in the long run. Trust me when I say this, for I've been on methadone for over a year now; I'm only at 100mg and it hurts to wake up! Your life must be scheduled according to your being chained to a pharmacy, regardless of where it is, and your need to visit it each day, every other day, or just twice--perhaps even once if you're lucky--a week. It's... an inconvenience; throw any ideas about holidaying out of the window: the next few months will be hard for you. I'm sorry. :-(

My own problems involve phenobarbital and other occasional sedatives and so my case may not apply to you. The poster mentioning legal action is right, for this ''doctor'' is a quack who refuses to listen to patients. Yes, patients lie--all patients lie, whether it's out of embarrassment, to cover up an affair or various other complicated issues, but people generally, as a whole, lie--and he seems to think that anyone caught with signs of opiate-use in their blood or urine must be an addict.

What if you'd been taking low-dose codeine-based painkillers (the OTC variety!) for a headache or muscular pain, etc? You'd be dead by now with that sort of prescription and diagnosis! I understand that one must be wary and on their guard when dealing with drug addicts, but this is beyond a joke; we're people too, though at times we can act like monsters and foul animals...

Take care and good luck with it all.

EDIT: When I say 1mg, I want to express that I say this purely to err on the side of caution. That schedule for tapering off above you will likely work like a charm, you'll feel minimal discomfort--though some discomfort is likely--and it would take far, far less time than 1mg every 2-4 days. If you're not receiving liquid-form methadone, well, congratulations on NOT having to taste that weird stuff that you grow to enjoy, all sugar-free and determined to destroy your teeth and leave your lips and mouth feeling slightly unpleasant. Yet, if you're getting it in pill-form, you're screwed as far as reliable dosages down to 1mg or less go. I think you can do it regardless! Again, good luck with this! :-)
Click to expand...

i almost did die the second day on methadone if it werent for my asthma inhaler im pretty sure i would have.
 
I cannot believe what I am hearing. This doctor is a total moron! Do you live in a Western country? If so, there will be a handful of commissions and tribunals that deal with medical complaints. Your doctor seriously misunderstands you and addiction generally. Getting onto methadone for a codeine habit is like getting onto crystal meth for a caffeine habit, it is medically negligent and totally contrary to common sense.

Subutex would be better for someone in your situation than methadone. But even methadone doesn't rot teeth or do anything to your bones - this is a myth, and methadone tinctures are now usually sugar-free.

Why did your doctor put you on gabapentin and mirtazepine? You know these are both anti-depressants? Or at least the latter is. I don't imagine them helping much with physical withdrawal, but as you're only reducing from 40 to 35 you probably won't have WD anyway.

In my opinion, being on either methadone or subutex for codeine (or was it poppy tea?) is not really justifiable unless: 1) the habit was extreme and 2) the patient wants to be on maintenance. It sounds like in your situation neither 1) or 2) applies. In this way, being on subutex could just lengthen and complicate the whole issue.

Why don't you just get some codeine/poppies and use them to taper off the methadone? This seems to be quite a common thing to do - when I quit suboxone by doctor gave me codeine and valium to take for a while.
 
so i quit cold turkey and switched doctors im actually not experiencing any withdrawal symptoms after day 5 i thought i was going to go through hell
 
klauts said:
so i quit cold turkey and switched doctors im actually not experiencing any withdrawal symptoms after day 5 i thought i was going to go through hell
Click to expand...

No withdrawals after day 5? You got ver very lucky then if that's the case.
 
no final solution

Stop now or forever hold your peace. Was on for 22 years and had no issues but a ball and chain and nothing but weed and alcohol to pass a UA (in the states). At least you can smoke and drink if that's your pleasure. We have once a month dosing and seemingly no limit now. When 80mg was the limit, I could make it on a half dose when I was short and go to work and be normal, then 80mg buzzed me right nicely every day after until that day rolled around again. I agree that your Dr. is a moron, but that's mostly what we have here in Texas. Also, it is true, Dr.'s cannot administer methadone for maintenance (can you say DEA). If your clinic is worth its salt, you wont have to go every other day for long. I held three management jobs in IT tech support for 5 years each while on the program, played in a band, and had lots of fun. I stayed on 10mg a day for these past five years because the last 10mg is the hardest to kick and you still get buzzed by adding 5mg every now and then. Have now kicked completely, so I have been doing Oxy, Dilaudid, Norco (did wind up with Hep C but think it was from my previous life) and whatever else I want. Started heroin at 22, methadone clinc at 29, and am now 55. If I were you I would make friends at the clinic then get away and keep the friends. We always had extra for everyone (it'll cost you, but not as much as the clinic charges), and barter is the way to go. I continued to take 10mg off the grid for 5 years, then quit completely (5,4,3,2,...). A good Dr. is hard to find, especially if you are only out for recreation, but if you need pain relief, they are out there. Sorry I know naught about Canada, but hell, I live in Texas.
 
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I'm pretty much like 'liferjones'. I injured my back at work in 2000, had 2 epidurals [which didn't do jackshit], & was sent to a very reputable pain clinic here in NC. My doctor is the coolest & best doc I've ever dealt with. He pretty much told me that I'll be taking methadone [I'm at 100 mgs daily & 1800 mgs of gabapentin] & gabapentin for life [I'm 57 yrs old].
I'm also on 30 mg mirtazapine & 2 mgs clonazepam daily as well. The 1 good thing is I only have to go to the pain clinic every 3 months for refills & hit the pharmacy once a month = 300/10 mg methadone, 90/600 mg gabapentin [Neurontin], 30/30 mgs mirtazapine, & 60/1 mg clonazepam. Luckily, they all refill at the same time & I'm on S.S. Disability/Medicare...which means all my scrips = $5 each.
This isn't a medical MJ State, but my doc knows how much I dig reefer & told me that if this State ever votes for medical MJ & passes, he'll give me a scrip/I.D. card immediately. At least I don't have to deal with the liquid doses on a daily-basis & just pick-up all my pills once-a-month. I know I'm on methadone [or something stronger when these no longer help with my pain = spinal-stenosis] for life, as I figure I have another 25-30 yrs tops. I'm not sure how high of a methadone dose my doc can prescribe me [he's an anisthesiologist], but I wouldn't mind trying Dilaudid or 1 of the oxymorphones or hydromorphones [which 1 is better?].
For the time being, my back is somewhat pain-free...but the initial wake-up is brutal on the old back. 1 day at a time is the only motto I can presently follow...& doc said back surgeries are a crap-shoot & could possibly leave me worse-off than no operation. I'm just gonna leave it be for now, but if I get to the point I'm in excruciating pain, then we'll go from there. WHEW!! I'm beat!! 8(
 
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