GBL/cannabis while recovering from alcoholism

[korjusk]

Hello

I haven't drank for 10 weeks.
But I still use GBL/weed couple of times per month.
These drugs make my sobriety easier but I wonder how harmful they are for healing from alcoholism.

At the moment I have concentration problems. Its hard to focus more than 2 hours/day.
Should I quit doing them and risk for bigger change of relapse or generally a few doses of drugs wont but my healing brain in jeopardy?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Congrats on the 10 weeks.

Be careful. Taking GBL and cannabis may make you relapse on alcohol.

A lot of people have tried the so called "marijuana maintenence" for alcoholism or drug addiction and it just lead to them starting to abuse alcohol or the drugs they were addicted to, or wound up being a substitute addiction for them.

A lot of people get sober in steps or first cut back, or quit certain drugs, and then later quit the drugs they did not have the issues/problems with.

 

[straightrazor]

I'd be particularly cautious with the GBL as it has a very similar mechanism of action to alcohol. I can personally maintain my "sobriety" while just smoking marijuana but GBL and GHB both lower my inhibitions like crazy and I can pretty much guarantee I would end up abusing other drugs if I started dabbling with either of them. All the GABA drugs be it benzos or G or alcohol make me crave other highs. Your mileage may vary but you should definitely be aware of the potential problems.

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

Just to reiterate what the person above is saying, I would really stay away from GBL or any other drugs that work on the GABA receptors like benzos/gabapentin/pregabalin etc

 

[korjusk]

Thank you all!

Iv been using GBL as substitution to alcohol for a long time.
I like it a lot more than alcohol and I dont have trouble to control it use.
Because Im addicted only to alcohol. So when im in situation where its likely that I start drinking again(weddings for example) then I do GBL instead.
And It works.

But I dont know how it changes my brain chemistry and stuff like that.
For example if in total abstinence I would recover from brain fog in 4 months then how quickly I would recover from brain fog when I would use GBL 2 times/month?

 

[THECATINTHEHAT]

The issue is that GHB is extremely similar to alcohol in it's action on the brain. Using a drug that affects the brain in such a similar way to alcohol is going to be a really big risk, despite your assertion that you have no trouble controlling it. That's kind of analogous to me saying I have a problem with heroin but I'm fine using some other sort of strong opiate, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You say yourself that you like it a lot more than alcohol....that should be ringing alarm bells. I'm not being an arse, it's just you should know that what you are doing is playing with fire.

Congratulations on ten weeks off the booze though. Unfortunately I don't know the answer to your question, and really it's going to be very hard to answer it. Not only because I doubt there is much anecdotal or medical evidence surrounding the subject, but because everyone is different in their brain chemistry. Hopefully someone else can shed a little more light on the situation though.

 

[phactor]

To be honest, I would stay away from both. Particularly the GBL. I cannot see Cannabis being enjoyable during this period, I would think that it would make you want to use something to quell the potential anxiety cannabis gives.

 

[korjusk]

To be honest, I would stay away from both. Particularly the GBL. I cannot see Cannabis being enjoyable during this period, I would think that it would make you want to use something to quell the potential anxiety cannabis gives.

Cannabis wont give anxiety to all people.
Some use it to treat insomnia, stress and anxiety.

Why would you stay away from GBL?

 

[phactor]

Because it affects GABA-B, which is also impacted by Alcohol. Its the reason why Baclofen can mitigate alcohol withdrawal symptoms. Its a myth that Alcohol only acts on GABA-A. But by using GHB you are essentially keeping your body addicted. To be honest, you should go see a doctor and talk to them about the issue. Alcohol and GHB withdrawal are extremely serious and can cause seizures.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15545024

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC154371/

And yes, Cannabis can treat all of those things. However, I have found that most who have abused Gabergenics tend to have problems with Cannabis anxiety after getting off of them (for a little while at least). And that isn't even getting into the whole substitution deal. Do what works for you of course.

When was the last time you smoked without alcohol and/or GHB in your system? Withdrawal from both of those substances produced anxiety in me that would only be exacerbated by Cannabis. Ultimately it depends on what your goals are. This is a harm reduction board, so we like to see "any positive change".

 

[korjusk]

Because it affects GABA-B, which is also impacted by Alcohol. Its the reason why Baclofen can mitigate alcohol withdrawal symptoms. Its a myth that Alcohol only acts on GABA-A. But by using GHB you are essentially keeping your body addicted. To be honest, you should go see a doctor and talk to them about the issue. Alcohol and GHB withdrawal are extremely serious and can cause seizures.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15545024

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC154371/

And yes, Cannabis can treat all of those things. However, I have found that most who have abused Gabergenics tend to have problems with Cannabis anxiety after getting off of them (for a little while at least). And that isn't even getting into the whole substitution deal. Do what works for you of course.

When was the last time you smoked without alcohol and/or GHB in your system? Withdrawal from both of those substances produced anxiety in me that would only be exacerbated by Cannabis. Ultimately it depends on what your goals are. This is a harm reduction board, so we like to see "any positive change".

Last sentence from first link:

These results suggest that baclofen may represent a potentially effective medication in the treatment of alcohol-dependent patients.

So It might not be healthy to use it but when "treatment with baclofen was associated with a higher percentage of subjects totally abstinent from alcohol and a higher number of days of total abstinence. " then it still good idea to use it when you are in risk of relapsing?

Unfortunately I didn't understand the content of second link.
(English isnt my main language)


Last time I smoked was 2 weeks ago and there wasn't any GHB/alcohol in my system then.
And I dont get withdrawal symptoms from GHB because Im not addicted to it. I have done it total of 5 times in these last 10 weeks.
I dont crave weed/GHB and recently I dont crave alcohol either.

And goal is to have a better health. Im trying to archive it with non-drinking. And It seems that my goal is almost attained.
Only problem at the moment is that brain fog/unable to concentrate for over 2 hours/day.
Brain fog is common symptom in recovering alcoholics and it usually last 2-6 months after last drink.
And I wanted to know how much longer It would last me If I would use GHB for 2 times per month.

You said that "using GHB you are essentially keeping your body addicted."
Do you have any proof for that?

Thank you.

 

[legalizeall]

To be honest, you should go see a doctor and talk to them about the issue. .

What the hell is a doctor gonna do? The more i get older, and see a doctor more frequently, the more i realize they dont help much. Unless you go to a specialist, all a g.p. doctor is gonna tell you is stuff you already know.

 

[korjusk]

What the hell is a doctor gonna do? The more i get older, and see a doctor more frequently, the more i realize they dont help much. Unless you go to a specialist, all a g.p. doctor is gonna tell you is stuff you already know.

Yeah.
Of course It depend where you live but for as long as I remember I haven't got any good information from doctor.
And about quarter of the time they just give me incorrect information.

 

[njirem]

You want an honoust answer?

Stay away from ANY drug, dont even do paracetmol on instance when you have a headache.

The biggest part in recovery and staying sober its changing your lifestyle and your urge for instant satisfaction or relief.
Its isnt only about the GABA-a receptors, or serotonin, or dopamine.

An addict has a self destructing patern of living and dealing with even the smallest trouble.
That is gonna kick your arse, wheter is is weed, alcohol or paracetamol.

No instant relief, but relief out of chaning your patern. Thats where the paracetamol thing comes in.
First you should look at what the cause is, then try the natural way.
Like take a shower, go for a walk, or talk to somebody when you are stressed.
These small things will make a BIG difference in your future.

10 weeks sobriety means you have the balls and strenght, now add wisdome.

NO MORE DRUGS period!!

 

[phactor]

What the hell is a doctor gonna do? The more i get older, and see a doctor more frequently, the more i realize they dont help much. Unless you go to a specialist, all a g.p. doctor is gonna tell you is stuff you already know.

Prevent you from having a possible seizure that can kill you.

 

[phactor]

Last sentence from first link:

So It might not be healthy to use it but when "treatment with baclofen was associated with a higher percentage of subjects totally abstinent from alcohol and a higher number of days of total abstinence. " then it still good idea to use it when you are in risk of relapsing?

Unfortunately I didn't understand the content of second link. The title for this thread is "GBL/cannabis while recovering from alcoholism". Most alcoholics can not use any drugs successfully, especially ones that hit the same receptors. What you do is up to you. If you don't like the answer I gave then just ignore it I guess.
(English isnt my main language)


Last time I smoked was 2 weeks ago and there wasn't any GHB/alcohol in my system then.
And I dont get withdrawal symptoms from GHB because Im not addicted to it. I have done it total of 5 times in these last 10 weeks.
I dont crave weed/GHB and recently I dont crave alcohol either.

And goal is to have a better health. Im trying to archive it with non-drinking. And It seems that my goal is almost attained.
Only problem at the moment is that brain fog/unable to concentrate for over 2 hours/day.
Brain fog is common symptom in recovering alcoholics and it usually last 2-6 months after last drink.
And I wanted to know how much longer It would last me If I would use GHB for 2 times per month.

You said that "using GHB you are essentially keeping your body addicted."
Do you have any proof for that?

Thank you.

Listen, I am not going to argue. The title of the thread is "GBL/cannabis while recovering from alcoholism". Most addicts cannot use drugs successfully after having addictions. Especially if they effect the same receptors. If you are using as infrequent as you are then I hope you can keep it that rare.

Every time you use GHB you are setting yourself back. The "brain fog" is likely to continue in some form until you give your GABA system time to recalibrate. If you do not want to hear this then so be it.

 

[korjusk]

You want an honoust answer?

Stay away from ANY drug, dont even do paracetmol on instance when you have a headache.

The biggest part in recovery and staying sober its changing your lifestyle and your urge for instant satisfaction or relief.
Its isnt only about the GABA-a receptors, or serotonin, or dopamine.

An addict has a self destructing patern of living and dealing with even the smallest trouble.
That is gonna kick your arse, wheter is is weed, alcohol or paracetamol.

No instant relief, but relief out of chaning your patern. Thats where the paracetamol thing comes in.
First you should look at what the cause is, then try the natural way.
Like take a shower, go for a walk, or talk to somebody when you are stressed.
These small things will make a BIG difference in your future.

10 weeks sobriety means you have the balls and strenght, now add wisdome.

NO MORE DRUGS period!!

Theres seem to be truth in your post but I don't think Im ready to believe it.

Where should I draw the line?
Is fast food/desserts/caffeine/porn/tv shows/movies/books occasionally ok?

Watching favorite tv show is instant satisfaction as well.
Maybe I shouldn't enjoy anything? Then again.. whats the point of living if you don't enjoy it?

I think that when the habit is not addictive and not noticeably bad for your health then its ok to enjoy it.

I believe that cooking myself a meal, smoking pot and watching a movie in the evening with my girlfriend once a month is not bad for me.
But yeah.. Im a addict. so I cant trust myself with that opinion. and I cant blindly trust other as well. Unless they have scientific proof.

But I would love discuss this topic more.

 

[korjusk]

Every time you use GHB you are setting yourself back. The "brain fog" is likely to continue in some form until you give your GABA system time to recalibrate. If you do not want to hear this then so be it.

I understand that you believe it. And I would like to believe it as well.
But for my is really hard to just take someone word for it.
I need proof. Or other peoples experience. Or something.

 

[korjusk]

Most addicts cannot use drugs successfully after having addictions. Especially if they effect the same receptors.

But you gave me a link that concluded:
that baclofen may represent a potentially effective medication in the treatment of alcohol-dependent patients.

And Methadone seem to be good for heroin addicts.

 

[njirem]

Theres seem to be truth in your post but I don't think Im ready to believe it.

Where should I draw the line?
Is fast food/desserts/caffeine/porn/tv shows/movies/books occasionally ok?

Watching favorite tv show is instant satisfaction as well.
Maybe I shouldn't enjoy anything? Then again.. whats the point of living if you don't enjoy it?

I think that when the habit is not addictive and not noticeably bad for your health then its ok to enjoy it.

I believe that cooking myself a meal, smoking pot and watching a movie in the evening with my girlfriend once a month is not bad for me.
But yeah.. Im a addict. so I cant trust myself with that opinion. and I cant blindly trust other as well. Unless they have scientific proof.

But I would love discuss this topic more.

you draw the line when the situations occurs as yours, when you are an alcoholic and therefor changed your brain in a way that it expects instans satisfaction or relief related to substances to avoid psychiatric and physical discomfort.
When ur messing around with weed and gbl, dude, your not in recovery, your
You are just substituting for the alcohol.
So the important thing is when it comes to porn/tv/gaming/sports etc, ask yourself, am i substituting or is what i am doing healthy?
All this related to behaviour, when you keep the pattern of taking a substance for any discomfort (like a paracetamol for headache) you maintain addictive behaviour.
You should be consious of what your thoughts and feelings are before taking a paracetamol, if you deny that step, your just going to continue the in the same circle.

But you gave me a link that concluded:
that baclofen may represent a potentially effective medication in the treatment of alcohol-dependent patients.

And Methadone seem to be good for heroin addicts.

true, but thats for a TAPER to eventually QUIT, making the withdrawl easier to eventually QUIT.
Its not a substitue, its has a medical service.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

You want an honoust answer?

Stay away from ANY drug, dont even do paracetmol on instance when you have a headache.

The biggest part in recovery and staying sober its changing your lifestyle and your urge for instant satisfaction or relief.
Its isnt only about the GABA-a receptors, or serotonin, or dopamine.

An addict has a self destructing patern of living and dealing with even the smallest trouble.
That is gonna kick your arse, wheter is is weed, alcohol or paracetamol.

No instant relief, but relief out of chaning your patern. Thats where the paracetamol thing comes in.
First you should look at what the cause is, then try the natural way.
Like take a shower, go for a walk, or talk to somebody when you are stressed.
These small things will make a BIG difference in your future.

10 weeks sobriety means you have the balls and strenght, now add wisdome.

NO MORE DRUGS period!!

I agree.

I have never used GHB/GBL so I'm not sure what that drug is like, or if there's withdrawal if you quit or stop using it?

But as I wrote in my previous post a lot of addicts wind up quitting drugs in stages/steps. I did this and I know others who have.

Good luck korjusk.