Television Game of Thrones

[Mandark]

The final episode was not really exciting. The grandness of the last scene seemed really forced.

I'm glad Jon Snow got what he deserved, though.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

Asha has a new storyline.

 

[L2R]

for all three seasons ends, khaleesi seems to be on a rinse repeat cycle. her storyline is too separate from everything else. it has to build to something really amazing for the journey to be warranted.

/my only gripe.

i really love seeing the journey of that group, but it might as well be a different series, the separation is so great.

 

[Kenickie]

can we talk about how problematic it is that the whitest person ever is being worshipped by a horde of slaves/brown people?

because even though i was shitfaced that scene still upset me

dany, don't get stuck in white savior mode pls

 

[L2R]

Oh indeed. I had the same thought, Keni. Felt a bit that way since the start of season 2, she's been leading "brown people" for that long.

Still, she's been attacking people of various shades, hasn't shown her followers anything but respect/care, and being the mother of dragons has far more to do with her god mode than her skin colour. See how her bro got pwmed (I love that scene).

We're reading too much into it. It isn't what our intuitions worry about.

 

[Belisarius]

I wasn't worried about the whole "white" aspect of it; not only did it more or less follow the books, I don't find it more offensive than the other ideas/ tropes that GoT takes in stride, like Dany growing to love someone she was basically sold to, or that that the only black people in the GoT universe are from the Summer Isles (and minor characters, all), or that there doesn't seem to be a female in Westeros who isn't highborn who can't walk to the privy without worrying about getting raped.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

I wasn't worried about the whole "white" aspect of it; not only did it more or less follow the books, I don't find it more offensive than the other ideas/ tropes that GoT takes in stride, like Dany growing to love someone she was basically sold to, or that that the only black people in the GoT universe are from the Summer Isles (and minor characters, all), or that there doesn't seem to be a female in Westeros who isn't highborn who can't walk to the privy without worrying about getting raped.

Well, medieval Europe, which the series is essentially based off of, was primarily white. Marin is being generous by including any brown people at all in the books. The show has already gone out of its way to make certain white characters black, such as the dude from Qarth whose name escapes me.

I didn't even think about any "white savior" type stuff with Dany because skin color plays a smaller role in Martin's world than in ours. It's really a non-factor.


Additionally, Arya isn't really worryied about being raped by anybody. She might be the only one, though.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

can we talk about how problematic it is that the whitest person ever is being worshipped by a horde of slaves/brown people?

What, you dislike white Jesus Dany's storyline?

 

[Kenickie]

We're reading too much into it. It isn't what our intuitions worry about.

this is the only thing i remember about the whole episode. i don't even remember what my favourite character did. that's how much this bothered me. representations of POC in the media drastically shapes what i consume, and this is the only show i watch that is made by/written by americans. for some reason the british have less qualms putting POC in main roles that aren't made to be fridged or vile stereotypes. and they even have less of us over there.

Well, medieval Europe, which the series is essentially based off of, was primarily white. Marin is being generous by including any brown people at all in the books. The show has already gone out of its way to make certain white characters black, such as the dude from Qarth whose name escapes me.

I didn't even think about any "white savior" type stuff with Dany because skin color plays a smaller role in Martin's world than in ours. It's really a non-factor.


Additionally, Arya isn't really worryied about being raped by anybody. She might be the only one, though.

xaro xhoan daxos.

all that is an easy out and kind of rude. is he also being generous is giving us some female characters that aren't just rape pillows? think about the implications of that before you say anything. what about the desert people in dorne who eat spicy foods and have a thing for snakes? where are they from in medieval europe? i hear this argument all the time. "there are no brown people in europe! EVER!" this is a world that has dragons and shapeshifters and skinwalkers and all kinds of shit. how many of those were there in medieval europe? is it really that hard to be non white in a world with dragons? they totally wrote Chataya & Jalabhar out, although she wasn't a big character, but at least gives us a vague idea that there are negroes out there. (Summer Isles, here we come?) Perhaps we'll see Jalabhar when

NSFW:

cersei has an arrest warrant sent out for him after accusing him of being Margarey's lover. maybe not.

so far my count is

Chataya & her daughter Alyaylaya
Grey Worm
Syrio Florel
Khal Drogo & the Dothraki horde
Missandei
The Martells
Kojja Mo and her father Quhuru Mo
Jalabhar Xho
the Lamb Men

i also have a feeling that Asha Greyjoy and Alysane Mormont aren't worried about getting raped all the time. as far as non highborn girls go, i highly doubt tv!Shae has much to worry about. or really any of the other tv!prostitutes.

What, you dislike white Jesus Dany's storyline?

i literally lol'ed.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

lol "generous" was a terrible word to use. Sorry about that. Too lazy right now to rephrase the post.



And I believe Asha was at one point worried about being raped:

NSFW:

When she is captive in Stannis's camp outside Winterfell in ADWD. Alysane Mormont too, I believe.

A more pertinent question might be: How many dudes are there in the series who don't like to rape after combat? All we ever seem to hear about when characters are explaining the battle rush is just how good it feels to rape a woman afterwards.

The Starks are probably the only ones who would both not participate in this behavior and forbid their troops from doing it as well. I think the women have a right to feel vulnerable.

 

[23536]

I don't remember seeing a single rape in this series (Brienne's and Sansa's were stopped). I'm guessing the books are full of rape, and that these scenes are beaucoup for HBO's audience?

Actually I remember seeing two rapes: Gendry by Melisandre and Theon by Ramsey's girls. If it is indeed possible for a straight man to be raped by beautiful women.

 

[malakaix]

So i just found this lol.. Game of Thrones Rap Battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg

On topic: Im with L2R.. i really want to see more progression of Daenery's storyline; the separation between her and everything else thats going on is massive. Im eagerly awaiting the moment she joins in with everyone else.. but apart from that i'm enjoying the show immensely.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

I don't remember seeing a single rape in this series (Brienne's and Sansa's were stopped). I'm guessing the books are full of rape, and that these scenes are beaucoup for HBO's audience?

Actually I remember seeing two rapes: Gendry by Melisandre and Theon by Ramsey's girls. If it is indeed possible for a straight man to be raped by beautiful women.

The main characters generally seem to narrowly escape, but there are an abundance of side characters who are not so lucky, and a million conversations by soldier types like the Hound recalling brutal rape scenes. It is a constant threat.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

So i just found this lol.. Game of Thrones Rap Battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg

On topic: Im with L2R.. i really want to see more progression of Daenery's storyline; the separation between her and everything else thats going on is massive. Im eagerly awaiting the moment she joins in with everyone else.. but apart from that i'm enjoying the show immensely.

Major spoilers:

NSFW:

lol

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

I don't remember seeing a single rape in this series (Brienne's and Sansa's were stopped). I'm guessing the books are full of rape, and that these scenes are beaucoup for HBO's audience?

There's some rape in the books - the Dothraki rape, and there's a rape of a [SPOIL]slow-witted royal woman[/SPOIL]. The former happens in a scene, and I think the latter does as well.

Rape happens off-scene as well. [SPOIL]Euron and Victarion[/SPOIL]'s wife, for example. There's also past rape - the [SPOIL]Mountain rapes Elia of Dorne while his hands are covered with the blood of her child[/SPOIL]. Also, both the [SPOIL]Drowned Priest[/SPOIL] and [SPOIL]Tommen [/SPOIL]make veiled or interrupted references to what some consider to be sexual abuse by an older child.

But this probably makes rape sound more prevalent in the books than it really is.

 

[psood0nym]

I really don’t think race is a concern of Game of Thrones. Like most fantasy, it’s based largely off of the culture and history of Medieval Europe. There’s no cop out that’s just what it is. Game of Thrones is concerned with how men gain and maintain power in such an environment, and that’s by sowing fear and respect through the exercise of cruelty, deception, betrayal, and nihilistic opportunism. Women often were rape pillows because brute physical force ruled the day, and such conditions favor the dominance of strong male psychopaths. That’s why there are to this day warlords destroying attempts to create infrastructure – to keep the civilizations they lord over at a level of development where tactics like rape and terror campaigns represent effective means of maintaining power (otherwise they’d have to go to business school to get what they want). Much of human history reflects clans trying to kill off and breed out others for genetic dominance and social influence. Exploring the nature of power at a particular place and time in history in a fantasy novel isn’t an endeavor that pays deference to any demographic, it’s just an effort at artistically portraying whatever history indicates worked (and then tossing in magic and dragons).

 

[marissaaaaaa]

omg, really with the race thing? look at that scene again, there were TONS of different shades of people. it wasn't only "brown" people clowns.
and in the book many of the slaves are described as brown skinned/many of the people from the sandy area. the people to the east and also dorne are either (in my opinion) based off of Mediterranean and Egyptian peoples.

i see two people there that are definitely "black"
the others could be any range from spanish to italian to slavic to middle eastern to Mediterranean IMO. that guy on the left looks like my dad if he was skinny (italian, irish, some albanian) and also like my roommtes dad (100% albanian). not everyone in there is a POC.
so before making any sweeping generalizations about the possible racial agenda of a show why don't you find out the nationality and race of each and every extra in that scene, and maybe re-watch it and get your facts straight because CLEARLY it's not all POC.

those reaching arms seem to be various shades to me.

you'll find any excuse i swear.

 

[alasdairm]

the fight for racial equality's loss is the fight for gender equality's gain.



alasdair

 

[poledriver]

I think I see some Australians in there too

 

[marissaaaaaa]

also on the topic of race in fiction. people write what they know. look inside every white person's head and their images of average people and whatnot are going to be white. look into any other race's head, i'm sure that the images of people will be moreso their own race.

look at the writers of these fantasies that are accused of white-washing. they're all white. a fantasy with all black characters is going to happen when it's written by a black writer IMO. and from what i've seen in modern fantasy/fiction, there's been quite a lot of racial mixing in the series. but then when a POC shows up in a white person's fiction, you all complain their a tolken character or whatever. but if they're absent then it's racist too. pick one.

you write the next fantasy series kenick and fill it with all the colors you want like a bag of skittles.

a white dude isn't going to write a book about all black people. people's brains just aren't programmed like that. even if you look at babies, before people can TALK there's been studies shown that babies respond more to people of their own race. it's not a racist thing, it's a biological thing. evolutionairy psychology is real folks as much as we like to pretend it's not.

open up kenickie's head i'm sure it's filled with black people just like if you open mine it's full of white people and that's not racist that's just the fact that we are of different ethnicities. i'm sure we can both write stuff that includes people of other races than our own, but a majority of our characters would be our own, because fiction reflects the mind of the writer and the mind of the writer is going to be programmed to imagine more things regarding their own race.

i'm tired, so i'm not sourcing anything and i'm probably not typing this out in the most grammatically correct way, but this whole debate annoys me to no end. if i read a great fiction that had a majority of people from another race i wouldn't get mad, because chances are the author is of that race that IS the majority and i would understand that their mind works in that way to create stories that focus on people of their own race since that is what they are and most likely their family and community. (which guess what we all do because i don't see any fucking sandy dornishmen in this thread) and (HELLO SEE HARRY POTTER I DIDN'T SEE ANY AMERICANS IN THAT AND I WASN'T FUCKING COMPLAINING. AND THE ONLY IRISH DUDE WAS SEAMUS FUCKING FINNIGAN THAT CLOWN AND ALL THE DRUNKEN RETARDS AT THE WORLD QUIDDITCH CUP. AND HOW RACIST THAT THEIR MASCOT WAS LEPRECHAUNS THAT GIVE YOU FAKE GOLD. O YEA WE'RE ALL DRUNK AND CHEAP AND SCHEMEY HUH?)
see. see how stupid it looks when i complain there weren't any americans in harry potter and that irish people were stereotyped and brit-washed or whatever the fucking term is? just because my skin is white and there's is doesn't mean that it represents ME. and that's what POC don't get. they think all us white people are sitting here in whiteness all like O YEA I'M SO REPRESNTED without looking into all the different cultures and races within "white". i don't identify with some brunette frenchie any more than i identify with a black girl. but i find something to identify with in characters because that's what you do, you don't complain that they don't look like you.


/endrant.