G & Whiz

[D&AWg]

I'd be interested to see some discussion about the effects of combining GHB with amphetamines, methamphetamines and MDMA/MDA etc.
As G is an anaesthetic-type compound and amphetamine drugs are stimulants, they might perhaps tend to cancel each other out to some extent - or perhaps not. Perhaps the combination would give effects not ascribed to either on its own? For example, if someone has overdosed on G and is on the point of collapse, would a bump of speed bring them round, or would it make them feel sicker? Or would they be both wired and nauseous?
And if this is seen as a good or fun combination for whatever reason, in what order and quantities are they being combined?
It would be particularly interesting if anyone responding to this could offer some pharmacological explanations for their opinions. Not so much along the lines of "yeah well my mate did that and it was awesome"!
Thanks.

 

[superbabydoc]

There was a recent discussion on this:

someone has overdosed on G and is on the point of collapse, would a bump of speed bring them round, or would it make them feel sicker? See: Can the effect's of GHB be countered?.
It is acknowledged that using stimulants with G increases your tolerance for G, see erowid, story 5.

 

[glory_glamour]

Ok.. in regards to giving people speed if they've had to much G:
When i was first learning about G and all that goes along with it. I was informed that if someone is having a g-nap, or you feel like your about to go into one, to have some speed and it will help to bring you back.
I've never had a g-nap before so i've never had this theory tested on me, but i know this worked for others.
There was a night where i'd had a fair amount of speed and needed a higher dose than usual of G.
umm.. yeah.. sorry no pharmacological explaination.

 

[Tarsarlan]

I wouldn't want to condone the use of dugs, especially the combination of drugs which could have unpredictable results, but geewhizz I would if I could
...Sorry, couldn't help it...
Is this topic separate enough from the one babydoc_vic provided a link to to warrant its own thread? ...I think so, but its not my call...
I can't provide any medical info, but from personal experience I can say that the combination is quite an enjoyable one, and while you might think a CNS depressant and a stimulant would cancel each other out, they don't... Its the closest thing I'd ever seen to mdma (when you get the dosages right)... The effects of one or the other are masked to some extent, but they don't cancel each other out...
On the point of counteracting nauseousness, yes it can be effective, however if you're about to fall unconscious then I wouldn't advise using speed to stop yourself, because it may not work, and if it does, large amounts of G and speed combined is not an enjoyable experience from what I've seen... This is only in the case of a large amount of G being consumed however... If you're just at the point of g-ing out, but haven't consumed a much larger amount of G than normal, then a bit of whizz may help... Regardless, you shouldn't be at the point of g-ing out in the first place...
Both G and whizz act relatively fast, so taking them both at once is most effective, a standard dose (whatever is a good dose for you, be careful when figuring out what your perfect dose is tho...) and a standard line (again, whatever you'd normally have)
As always, be careful when combining drugs... The speed/meth can fool you into believing the G hasn't worked, so if your usual dose doesn't kick in, don't immediately dose again, otherwise when both doses kick in fully you'll find yourself quickly falling unconscious...
[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: Tarsarlan ]

 

[D&AWg]

These are excellent comments, thanks a lot everyone. Just running out of time right now, but I'm going to check out that thread babydoc mentioned. Meanwhile, more input/opinions gratefully received!

 

[D&AWg]

OK, checked that out and it's really useful info. One point I find puzzling is the belief that stimulant use increases tolerance to G. Erowid story 5 is as follows:

Story #5
One interesting case was a friend who had been taking GHB on weekends in combination with ecstasy or speed. They found their tolerance for GHB rose quite quickly until they were taking 10-15 grams at a time for the desired effects. One day they decided to do GHB alone and ingested about 10 grams. This led to waking up in the hospital, tied down, with tubes and catheters and a $2500 bill. Obviously the tolerance they had built up to GHB was only when done in combination with a strong stimulant.
I would suggest that their tolerance for G was increasing as a direct result of regular G use and not because of the combined stimulant use. However, the stimulants were masking or counteracting the depressant effects of G. Hence, when they used G without the stimulants they got whacked with the full depressant effects of the G and passed out.
Just my theory, what do other people think?
Also Tarsalan, your comments were really interesting. Would you mind elaborating on

large amounts of G and speed combined is not an enjoyable experience from what I've seen...
Hmmph... I might just add that I was not impressed to see on the other thread that my G Whiz pun is not original at all... serves me right for trying to be clever.

 

[BigTrancer]

Perhaps the continued use of stimulants with GHB caused them to take higher-than-normal doses of GHB on a chronic basis which led to development of a tolerance faster than would otherwise be usual?
BigTrancer

 

[D&AWg]

BT: Yes, that sounds about spot-on!

 

[Maxi]

from my experience, moderate users of meth need LESS Na-GHB for the same effect of non->small users of meth.
probally due to the fact that a moderate meth user would have less dopamine... therefore they wouldn't need as much G to restrict its release.
M

 

[Miss Peks]

G Wizz yes please!!! Sorry I don't really condone it either, but it rhymes.
From what *I* know about it, it's a very good combo if you want something fairly simular to clean MD powder (in my past experience anyway), being that you feel loved up, but you still have lots of energy to do stuff like dance, and not be soooo "off guts" that you're rolling around on the floor hugging the nearest person there!
This is probably one of the best drug combo's around that there is if it's done right!

 

[sass]

i know someone who did 1,4B and e last wed night, did usuall dose of 1,4 and one e then got carried away and did even more 1,4. seemed to bring down the effects of e but lessened the bad effects of the 1,4.
he thought he was fairly straight that night until he woke up the next morning and remembered all the shit that went on.
so it was an okay combo, maybe a bit of a waste of e but just remember, even though you feel straight your not!
1,4b and speed on the other hand my friend finds to be a very enjoyable combo, dont need much speed either.

 

[D&AWg]

I guess one of the dilemmas for me is that it really ruins everyone's night when someone g's out. So do you or don't you encourage them to have some speed at that point, in the hope it will bring them round? As some of you wisely point out, we shouldn't encourage people to use uncertain combinations. Especially as at that point they will be unclear as to dosages and forget to mention that they also had six beers and a bump of K...
However, the paramedics won't be administering any restorative medication. Could a little whiz prevent a medical emergency?

 

[BigTrancer]

Suggestion: Call the ambulance first, THEN try to figure out ways to fix the situation.
Preventing the medical emergency can be accomplished by one easy step: taking only enough G/1,4b to have an effect, and not redosing or combining with depressants. If a person knows their dose, and sticks to it without becoming too ambitious or caught up in the 'heat of the moment' then they should never fall asleep on the substance.
Fixing the situation in the case of someone actually dropping to sleep on G/1,4b is another matter. If the unconscious person can breath easily, is lying in a position where if they vomit they will not respirate the liquid, and is in no immediate danger, then call an ambulance immediately and think about trying to avert the need for an ambulance later.
Leave administering MORE drugs to the professionals who are trained to do so. To add more illicit drugs to an unknown synergy in an unconscious person will only complicate issues for the ambulance medicos.
BigTrancer

 

[D&AWg]

Quite agree with above comments. It would be very dangerous to administer anything to an unconscious person and I would be the first to call the ambulance when I thought a person was at risk.
However, perhaps I phrased the question badly. People out there *are* overdosing on G/1,4B, whether they know the dangers or not - and there are plenty of ignorant or silly people. I'm curious as to whether speed would prevent them from becoming unconscious once they realise they've had too much but before they drop.
I certainly won't be doing the administering, but I do know some people who continue to take silly risks, and they spoil the fun for themselves and others. I am wondering whether it would be a good harm-reduction idea to suggest to them that they try their own speed as an antidote if in the future they feel they have had too much G and want to prevent that medical emergency.

 

[Soma]

I would feel uncomfortable endorsing giving someone who is in a G sleep speed.
As a rule, mixing stimulants and depressants is generally not a good idea. Your body gets mixed signals about what to do and how fast to do it. Mind you, mixing just stimulants or just depressants is never really good either!
It is a major crime to give illicit drugs to people unknowingly. If push came to shove you may find yourself on the floor with a bang.
In Real Life, administering speed to someone out on G should only be done under the direction of medical staff. That means the guy on the end of 000. Things would have to be pretty critical at this point. In Real Life, you should only be calling 000 if the person has taken a truely heroic amount (like accidently taking concentrate like it was diluted), mixed G with other depressants and gone down, or if they are found by someone and no one knows the amount that was consumed (eg there is an empty bottle next to them, or they were unfamiliar user). The ambulance would have to be a long long way away before you should consider using speed, and you should be asking the advice of the 000 man.
You have to use your common sense here. If they have double dosed, they are not going to die unless they vomit and choke or are in a position where they are not breathing. If they are sleeping happily then good - make sure they are in a place where they are easily checked up upon. You should not need speed.

 

[anfalicious]

Originally posted by BigTrancer:
If the unconscious person can breath easily, is lying in a position where if they vomit they will not respirate the liquid, and is in no immediate danger, then call an ambulance immediately and think about trying to avert the need for an ambulance later.
BT: how much danger would someone who was breathing fine, in a good position and with someone looking after them be? I wouldn't have thought at this point it would be necessary to call an ambo... I've treated too much 1,4 similar to the way I treat too much alcohol (although, I haven't come across a situation where someone has had several times the amount they should have). Is there something I am missing here? This has happened to me quite a few times now, and everytime I've looked after the person and they've been fine.