Fucking Australians have ruined cricket

[Infinite Jest]

^
Good comments in post #12. Not sure I agree with you, but your argument makes sense. (Certainly, I think we could all learn something from the aggressive Aussie attitude).

I'm also not sure what your lot have done to 'ruin cricket'. I personally enjoy watching Australia play (although this constant beating of teams I support HAS TO STOP ).

Fully agree about the sledging and insulting race, etc: I've been very disappointed to see some of the banners/chants at NZ-Aus games (a fair amount of homophobic abuse for the Aussies; for no apparent reason). A shame, as the recent games here have been absolute crackers and some of the best sporting events I've ever attended (never forget NZ nearly chasing down 320 odd to win, Lee visibly going to pieces as the crowd got on his back, the Aussies winning it in the last over by a couple of runs...).

 

[swifty]

I think the Chappell - Hadlee series is turning into a great trans-Tasman contest, and I'm happy to see NZ and Aus extend it to a 5 match series this year, 3 is too few, hopefully it will become a 7 match series in the future with the ability to play a game in each capital and territory in australia, and well, several games in the major centres of NZ...

 

[duck_racer]

Just a quick note on this, I think it is RIDICULOUSLY unfair to criticise Ponting about "whining" in this situation, when the ICC Code of Conduct stipulates that if there is any racist comment made, that the captain of the team that the comment was made to/about has to IMMEDIATELY report it to the umpires, then also, at the next available opportunity - for example the end of an over, to report it to the match referee.

So basically, Ponting was doing EXACTLY what was required of him in the case of a racist comment being made. I'm not saying that a comment was made or it wasn't, but it was alleged, and in that situation, Ponting did EXACTLY the right thing, so any criticism about whinging or whining here is completely redundant and ridiculous.

CB.

Firstly, Ponting didn't hear the ALLEGED comment and reported the issue immediately instead of, say, asking Harbhajan if he actually did say anything. And in turn the Umpires have banned the player for an incident for which there is NO PROOF FOR except for an Australian player *heaing* something. I'm nt saying he didn't hear anything but there are possibilities it could have been that Hrbhajan said something else, or that the comment was misheard/misconstrued. It seems crazy to me to go the full hog and report (and then ban) someone based on absolutely no evidence.

Swifty - Perhaps in cultures other than your own insulting someones family, or their mother, or their flag, or their turban or their hair or whatever is equally as important to them as the colour of their skin.

I fucking hate sledging, both when I played cricket as a junior and watching now, as it totally detracts from the game. Having some banter with each other is completely different to "doing everything to win but always playing hard but far... blah blah blah"and if test nations (and again, Australia are known to be the worst for this) can't understand the difference then it should just be outlawed..

Shame nobody commented on the OP which was from a column by Johnathan Agnew, a man with decades of test cricket and broadcasting experience. He's got it spot on IMO - pity he doesn't work for the ICC :-\

 

[B9]

silly mid off what on earth is that?

In the danger zone!

although this constant beating of teams I support HAS TO STOP

Absolutely, no matter what it takes!

 

[swifty]

Swifty - Perhaps in cultures other than your own insulting someones family, or their mother, or their flag, or their turban or their hair or whatever is equally as important to them as the colour of their skin.

From what I've gathered, Australian sledging rarely, if at all refers to mothers or families, and furthermore I'm pretty sure insulting a flag or a turban is indeed racial or cultural, which is unacceptable.

I fucking hate sledging, both when I played cricket as a junior and watching now, as it totally detracts from the game. Having some banter with each other is completely different to "doing everything to win but always playing hard but far... blah blah blah"and if test nations (and again, Australia are known to be the worst for this) can't understand the difference then it should just be outlawed..

1st, if australia are the worst for slegding, then other teams should be prepared for it and infact it should actually lessen the effect of the sledge because it's apparently so commonplace here

2nd, The west inidies, south africa, india and england are just at bad for sledging as australia.

3rd, Most of the sledges are about the batsmen's performance ie: brett lee telling him how close he was to edging it, or shane warne asking him which way is it going to spin, or clarke telling him to have crack at the next one etc etc, what's so bad about that.

Shame nobody commented on the OP which was from a column by Johnathan Agnew, a man with decades of test cricket and broadcasting experience. He's got it spot on IMO - pity he doesn't work for the ICC :-\

Aggers played 3 tests and 3 ODI's it's hardly decades of international playing experience and his entire first class career was played for Leicestershire, now I'm not really up to speed on my country cricket, but from what I understand they were prety mediocre until the early 90's so his main experience with top flight cricket was 2 division county cricket, hardly a boiling point of international cricket...

In addition, he claims Australia "conned the umpire" coming from a bowler, that's a little hard to swallow, he's essentially claiming that not one of his 800 First class and list a wickets came dubiously...

In a perfect world, umpires wouldn't make mistakes and batsmend would walk and no-one would be nasty to each other but it's not a perfect world.

Now you still haven't pointed out how australia have ruined cricket...

 

[8L4YN3]

Yes, exactly how have we aussies ruined the game?

 

[B9]

^ Read duck racers analysis of the situation. :D

 

[Chaos Butterfly]

Firstly, Ponting didn't hear the ALLEGED comment and reported the issue immediately instead of, say, asking Harbhajan if he actually did say anything. And in turn the Umpires have banned the player for an incident for which there is NO PROOF FOR except for an Australian player *heaing* something. I'm nt saying he didn't hear anything but there are possibilities it could have been that Hrbhajan said something else, or that the comment was misheard/misconstrued. It seems crazy to me to go the full hog and report (and then ban) someone based on absolutely no evidence.

Swifty - Perhaps in cultures other than your own insulting someones family, or their mother, or their flag, or their turban or their hair or whatever is equally as important to them as the colour of their skin.

I fucking hate sledging, both when I played cricket as a junior and watching now, as it totally detracts from the game. Having some banter with each other is completely different to "doing everything to win but always playing hard but far... blah blah blah"and if test nations (and again, Australia are known to be the worst for this) can't understand the difference then it should just be outlawed..

Shame nobody commented on the OP which was from a column by Johnathan Agnew, a man with decades of test cricket and broadcasting experience. He's got it spot on IMO - pity he doesn't work for the ICC :-\

i don't think it matters whether Ponting himself heard the comment... Ponting did what he was meant to do in the situation. That however has nothing to do with the decision reached by the Match Referee... Watching the coverage, you could see Umpire Mark Benson covering his hand while asking Harbajhan some questions, and Harbajhan repeatedly saying: no, no, no. So he is denying it there, and well hey, that's fair enough.

I don't know if he said it or not. If he did, then fair cop, sit out 3 matches. If not, then clear him, and lets get back to the awesome cricket we've been watching. My point is that Ponting did absolutely nothing wrong by taking the actions that he took. I suppose that most of my issues come with the ridiculous amounts of negative press over here, especially the ones calling for sacking Ponting.

I always hate the whole he says, she says, or in this case he says, he says sort of litigation, because ultimately the response has to swing one way or the other, and I just don't have the faith in the legal profession (or in the case, just the match referee) to make the right decision, and I know that I personally will very forthrightly defend myself if I feel that I have been accused of something that I haven't done, in fact I will not stand for it at ALL, so I know how Harbajhan feels, if in fact he didn't make the alleged comment.

I just want the whole fiasco to be put behind everyone, and we get back to what has been a top series, and watch some more Tendulkar magic in what is likely his last tour to Australia, as well as some more batting heroics by Huss and Hayden (and hopefully Punter if he can last more than 1 ball against Harbajhan )

CB

 

[duck_racer]

Yeah it's a delight watching Tendulkar, a player who backs up his considerable talent with decorum, humility and fair play, something Ponting and a good few of the Australian team could learn a thing or two from.

my point about the alleged comment was Ponting immediately running to teacher when he allegedly 'heard' something whereas dishing out all kinds of crap from Glchrist, Hayden, Ponting etc for years is deemed acceptable because it is insulting your country, what you look like, clothes, family, etc.

But it's okay because they don't mention race.

Prat.

 

[duck_racer]

^Meant Ponting not CB

 

[duck_racer]

Now you still haven't pointed out how australia have ruined cricket...

I have, as did Aggers in his article, however you failed to spot it.

Take out the fair play and humility and you're left with...

football.

 

[duck_racer]

Okay it's easier to tackle this point by point..

From what I've gathered, Australian sledging rarely, if at all refers to mothers or families, and furthermore I'm pretty sure insulting a flag or a turban is indeed racial or cultural, which is unacceptable.


1st, if australia are the worst for slegding, then other teams should be prepared for it and infact it should actually lessen the effect of the sledge because it's apparently so commonplace here

Eh? So on one hand you claim the sledging is all fair and okay and not insulting at all then on the other teams should just be prepared anyway, whatever is said? Contradiction, non?

2nd, The west inidies, south africa, india and england are just at bad for sledging as australia.

Having read articles by Aggers, Gus Fraser and even Richie Benaud they all claim Australia are the worst (and most famous) perpetrators..

3rd, Most of the sledges are about the batsmen's performance ie: brett lee telling him how close he was to edging it, or shane warne asking him which way is it going to spin, or clarke telling him to have crack at the next one etc etc, what's so bad about that.

Agreed, most are. It's the 1% of others that cause all the problems

Aggers played 3 tests and 3 ODI's it's hardly decades of international playing experience and his entire first class career was played for Leicestershire, now I'm not really up to speed on my country cricket, but from what I understand they were prety mediocre until the early 90's so his main experience with top flight cricket was 2 division county cricket, hardly a boiling point of international cricket...

I'll forgive you for here because I'm guessing your Australian. Agnew is probably the most respected cricket broadcaster in England. He's intelligent (posh school type of cricketer that only us Brits produce ), erudite and has written in respected nationals/broadcast on the bbc for 15 odd years. His understanding of the game, especially at the broader scope of the ICC and how it reflects to the public, are second to none. I respect his opinion even if you don't. And certainly more than someone like Ponting who looks more at home in the Zoo than making claims on the nuances of cricketing law.

In addition, he claims Australia "conned the umpire" coming from a bowler, that's a little hard to swallow, he's essentially claiming that not one of his 800 First class and list a wickets came dubiously...

In a perfect world, umpires wouldn't make mistakes and batsmend would walk and no-one would be nasty to each other but it's not a perfect world.

I think perhaps you're right with your final point. It's not a perfect world and international cricket, like any other sport, is driven by money. Umpires will be put under more and more pressure because winning means more money for the players and teams as a whole, the game will slowly lose its identity and the days of fair play and understanding between teams will be lost to the mists of time.

 

[duck_racer]

Athough it's not going to make much sense to non-Brits have a read of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_Match_Special#Light-hearted_style

And this is what I love about cricket. Sure, it's nice when England win (miracles do happen) but listening to cricket on the radio, NEVER telly, enjoying what is actually good about the game.

The middle class Britishness of it all.

 

[swifty]

This is great little argument...

Eh? So on one hand you claim the sledging is all fair and okay and not insulting at all then on the other teams should just be prepared anyway, whatever is said? Contradiction, non?

Eh? Eh? Nice try, that's hardly contradiction...

Having read articles by Aggers, Gus Fraser and even Richie Benaud they all claim Australia are the worst (and most famous) perpetrators..

That's really a point for contention, they only teams I've never heard sledging are the Bangla's and Sir Lanka

Agreed, most are. It's the 1% of others that cause all the problems

like Bhaji's comment. non???

I'll forgive you for here because I'm guessing your Australian. Agnew is probably the most respected cricket broadcaster in England. He's intelligent (posh school type of cricketer that only us Brits produce ), erudite and has written in respected nationals/broadcast on the bbc for 15 odd years. His understanding of the game, especially at the broader scope of the ICC and how it reflects to the public, are second to none. I respect his opinion even if you don't. And certainly more than someone like Ponting who looks more at home in the Zoo than making claims on the nuances of cricketing law.

How can I ever thank enough for taking into account my poor colonial upbringing? Your cross cultural understanding and patience is only complimented by your gamesmanship and good looks. I've met aggers, he broadcasts frenquently on ABC 720 over here. He comes across as a nice guy. Far to pompous for my likings, give me a Ponting any day, you know 30 odd centuries, match winner, someone who can cut it at the top without having to crawl back to his second rate county side because interntational cricket is too hard, the kind of cricketer only australia can produce.

Perfect example of and Aussie sledge, see no reference to mum's, hair or turban's, just how piss weak someone's performance is...

I think perhaps you're right with your final point. It's not a perfect world and international cricket, like any other sport, is driven by money. Umpires will be put under more and more pressure because winning means more money for the players and teams as a whole, the game will slowly lose its identity and the days of fair play and understanding between teams will be lost to the mists of time.

The problem with aggers, and you is you live in bygone era's, it's so easy to get nostalgic, shit, I used to long watching Dennis Bergkamp smash strikes from 5 yards out of the penalty box, and watch mark waugh carve swashbuckling centuries and watch Peter Matera run down the wings of subiaco, but they've all retired now, life moves on, cricket too.

Interestingly, not one batsmen in the English side is a know walker.

And if anyone ruined the gentleman's aspect of cricket it was the Pom's with their bodyline bowling 70 years ago because, guess what, they couldn't win with getnlemanly tactics.

 

[duck_racer]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree.

How brilliant you brought up colonialism, I was waiting that old chestnut! Chip on your shoulder, swifty?

As for English batsmen not being known walkers - we don't get a chance to walk we're generally out before then!

See I can make a joke about it and being crap and it's still actually funny. Something Australians really struggle at. You keep your Pontings and I'll keep Aggers, Blofeld, English cricket on a Sunday etc and everyone is happy.



(and for the record yeah I couldn't agree with you more about Harbhajans comment except, well, nobody actually has any proof anything was said but hey, the other guy was black so he must get a ban)

 

[swifty]

I'll keep Aggers,

I wish you would, but he keeps popping up on our radio stations

I'll forgive you for here because I'm guessing your Australian

Unfounded superiority complex much?? 8)


Interestingly, India are the worst offenders under ICC conduct charges followed by pakistan, west indies, enlgand then australia

 

[duck_racer]

Unfounded superiority complex much?? 8)

Oh come on re-read the passage I meant your lack of understanding for who Agnew actually is (in broadcasting, TMS etc terms anyway).

Touchy touchy, lets hold hands and cricket bats.

 

[B9]

but listening to cricket on the radio, NEVER telly, enjoying what is actually good about the game.

I quite like to watch the telly ( with the sound turned off) & listen to test match special at the same time.

 

[Infinite Jest]

Well, the last test was very exciting, from what I saw of it. A good riposte by both teams to the nonsense of the past few weeks.

I'll add that I don't think Aussies have ruined cricket; if anything, they've helped test cricket evolve (notably through the much more aggressive approach taken to batting). And right now I'd frankly rather watch a good series involving Aus (like v India, especially in India; or the 2005 Ashes) than watch my own country play: much more drama in the first instance.

 

[swifty]

I was at the game yesterday, I applauded India they played well.

Stunning partnership between Clark and Johnson.

But, you gotta love the tall poppy syndrome the Australian press have, we lose one test in 26 months and suddenly it spells the end for Australian cricket as we know it.

Mindless Drivel from Peter english