From Buprenorphine (Subutex) to Oxycodone

[d3Xo-fan]

Hi,

I managed to convince my doctor to put me on a full agonist with a short halflife so the withdrawals would be over quicker eventually. We ended up deciding on Oxycodone as it is not THAT potent and has a conveniently short halflife.

Currently I take about 6-8mg buprenorphine each day. How much Oxycodone would you say I should take daily to combat withdrawals? Please note that I'm not chasing a high here. This is a part of a tapering process me and my doc is working on.

I know of opioid conversion charts, but I'd rather listen to some of your opnions / experiences.

P.s. please don't reply with answers like 'you should stay on subutex' or 'this is a bad idea; your tolerance will increase...' and so forth. I have done my homework. Really, I just want to know what dosage of oxycodone you would recommend to someone taking 6-8mg buprenorphine daily.

Thanks a bunch in advance

 

[sekio]

The two are non-equivalent, apples and oranges. Start with 10mg oxycodone. Stop when you don't feel sick. Remember that by switching to strong full agonists you are actually moving backwards in terms of recovery. This calculator suggests 75-150mg of opxycodone is equivalent to 6mg of bupe, but I don't believe that for a second. You'd get sick as shit if you took 150mg oxycodone, I bet.

We ended up deciding on Oxycodone as it is not THAT potent

Uh-huh. Hydrocodone would have been a better choice, or codeine, or DHC. Even Kratom. Low potency is the key. Oxycodone is basically equipotent with morphine.

The issue here is that buprenorphine is only a partial activator of the opioid receptors; it doesn't activate them 100% like endorphins or "full agonist" opiates. Therefore there's no direct conversion from buprenorphine to full agonists because it's going to be very dependent on the person and their physiology.

 

[d3Xo-fan]

Thanks for your post. You explained well why I'd rather hear from someone with experience than use an opioid chart. I thought about codeine and hydrocodone aswell, but one of the main factors is the keep the psychological cravings away, and for that I need something stronger.

 

[d3Xo-fan]

But you do agree that being on Oxycodone for a while is better than being on Methadone (which I've been on and off several times), right? Methadone being more potent and having a way longer halflife. And Buprenorphine, partial agonist or not, is still way more potent than Oxycodone and the halflife is even longer than that of Methadone.

 

[sekio]

You are confusing dose in milligrams with true potency. Buprenorphine does not activate your opioid receptors fyully. Oxycodone on the other hand does. This means that there comes a certain point where no amount of bupe will ever produce the same effects as a moderate oxycodone dose. Funnily enough low doses of buprenorphine may be more effective than big doses because more of the dose is proportionally converted to norbuprenorphine, which is a full agonist.

Methadone is much stronger than buprenorphine because it too is a full agonist that produces around 100% activation of your receptors. It is more suited for long-term maintenance and tapering therapy where the goal is to slowly reduce blood levels of the drug over weeks to months. Ironically oxycodone may be worse as a maintenance medication because it will cause much more intense peaks and valleys due to the need for redosing due to the short half life. I'm no addiction counsellor though and heroin has been used as a maintenance med just fine in Europe, so maybe I'm just reciting the popular belief.

 

[Coolwhip]

suggests 75-150mg of opxycodone is equivalent to 6mg of bupe, but I don't believe that for a second. You'd get sick as shit if you took 150mg oxycodone, I bet.

As you mentioned later in your post, there is no simple conversion because they don't do the same thing. But I bet as far as the number of receptors occupied that that number is about right. Judging from how bad the WD's from bupe can be at 6mg. And also the fact that I have seen numerous people(not addicts like me) but friends who can handle 30-40 mg of oxycodone get sick as fuck from snorting 1mg or 2mg of bupe.

 

[d3Xo-fan]

Actually in my country (Denmark) they offer heroin for maintenance, but you have to IV it (in a few months/years you may smoke it aswell, yay!). What about OxyContin then? An agonist weaker than methadone but one that you only have to take once every 24 hours or however long they last. The main issue is not how intense the withdrawals will be or how potent the agonist is or how high it's affinity for my receptors is. The one and only issue is how long the withdrawals will last, and that's why I'm looking at Oxycodone. Believe it or not, but before oxycodone I actually considered hydromorphone. Obviously I've denied hydromorphone as an options now.