RCs Freebasing MDPV?

[yeppuni]

Absolutely no. Sodium bicarbonate is only weak alkali as high as pH 8.4 even in saturated solution. It's not enough to deprive proton of HCl salt of tertiary amines, like MDPV. You'd better to use something which pH is over 11 at least, such as Ammonium hydroxide or Sodium carbonate solution, or Sodium hydroxide solution if you have the permission to deal with.
Or, firstly solute Sodium bicarbonate in hot water over 60 degrees Celsius, and then cool it, then you'll get the solution of Sodium carbonate but not saturated, so you have to add Sodium bicarbonate and repeat this process.
Occasionally you'll get the saturated solution of Sodium Carbonate, which pH is about 12.6. It's enough to prepare freebase of tertiary amines.

 

[yeppuni]

^ That's cos there are no differences in effects between freebase and HCl form of peevee. The effects are basically identical - freebase is just a pain in the arse to do, very unstable and a total waste of effort. The salt vapes at extremely low temperature so is not a problem to vape - freebase can literallly evaporate in front of your eyes before you can even get it on the pipe sometimes it's so feckin' unstable. Not advisable for any but the most experienced users, but the salt is also very easy to prep for IV - just add water, nothing else required.

The Stuffmonger Technique posted above looks very intriguing indeed. If he really has cracked the recipe for reproducing genuine tan peevee (not the crap sold as tan since which is generally just had a colouring added to plain ol' white peevee HCl to make it seem more interesting) then he will be worshipped as a god by many. Hopefully get to try some produced by that method sometime soon. Other than that, just use the white/not-really-tan-but-tinted-tan stuff as is for all ROA

Certainly, it seems that HCl salt vapes at extremely low temperature, but in fact, it's not correct. HCl salt does not vape instead of decomposing. And, in this process bring many decomposed substances of MDPV which are harmful to cardiovascular system due to its adrenergic effects.
And, if you feel HCl salt is better than freebase, it may actually not freebase that the substance you have. It must be some kinds of decomposition residue of MDPV HCl, which are not only very nasty but also dangerous to your health. Attention please.

 

[Diia]

After thoroughly researching the week for better ways to smoke, or at least a better salt, I agree. Leave it as it is. 1mg of mdpv should not make someone trip like they were on phenylalanines. But it damn sure can after being broken down, decomposed, and changed God knows what from hydrophilic properties.

It is no longer mdpv. It something similar in makeup, but nothing similar in makeup is similar to mdpv.

 

[Dr.BurningBunny]

OH WOW, so much ignorance on this forum. Hasn't any of your taken a chemistry class?

Even before I was a biochemistry major, I looked shit up and knew what I was doing. I have no sympathy for ignorance, there's no excuse.

I will tell you all how to freebase, but first, let me dispel some myths:

1. The boiling point of the salt is so close to the combustion point, that your not going to likly vaporize the salt, unlike meth. You are burning it. Most people say that they are smoking meth, when they are really vaporizing it, well in this case, you say your smoking mdpv, thinking that your vaporizing it, but actually you are correct and are indeed smoking it.

2. You do not want to shoot the freebase. Whats wrong with the salt? Not hardcore enough for you? Need the element of possible sudden death to really feel like your living? The freebase oil would just float around in there as one big glob of oil... not good.

3. In this method, yes you can substitute isopropyl alcohol, IF its 90% or greater. I just wouldn't recommend using anything i wouldn't want to inhale or ingest. Everclear would be much safer. That and you can get drunk while you wait for the evap...

4. Leaving freebase out is not going to magically make 'tan' mdpv. The tan mdpv was probably produced by someone who doesn't understand molarity and wasn't fully salted, leaving some freebase in the powder. That or the cold water extraction of the pyrrolidine from the mdpv in an ethereal solution was omitted. MMMM...


MDPV is sold at the hydrochloride salt ONLY.
If its white, and its a powder its a salt, most likely the hydrochloride salt. Ive never seen any other salts, but it can come in other forms, such as a hydrobromide, or acetate.

Its salted by adding HCl acid to the base while under solution.

This makes MDPV:
-More stable. Wont go to shit in 24 hours.
-Heavier and less potent because of high molecular weight.
-A solid instead of a liquid. Higher boiling temperature.
-Forms a crystalline structure, hence a salt.
-More easily adsorbed in the GI tract and by mucus membranes in the nose.


Free base MDPV exists as a dirty yellow, viscous oil with a strong odor. It will turn waxy at a bit below room temperature. Even though its boiling point is well above room temperature, it will still slowly evaporate over night, leaving your home smelling like a cross between a meth lab and dirty gym socks.
The freebase oil is also highly unstable, it breaks down readily in the presence of heat, light, oxygen or moisture but will evaporate away in a matter of hours first, leaving behind an oily residue.

Thats why you wont be sold MDPV freebase. If someone does try and sell you yellow MDPV freebase oil, smack them upside the head for trying to sell you piss. Even if it was real mdpv freebase, it will be piss by now.

In the lab MDPV freebase will always be stored as the salt, even Even if the freebase is needed again in 4 hours, it only takes minutes to salt it and freebase it back again, where as the synthesis calls for a 60 hours reaction process, at slightly above room temperature. With reaction times like that, you cant afford to have half your product breakdown overnight because you were to lazy to spend 5 minutes acidifying a solution.

Not only is it unstable, but its a very irritating molecule. If you do decide to vape it, try to limit yourself to two times that day. When you wake up in the morning, you'll understand why. You will feel like you have been kicked in the lungs by a horse--the MDPV horse. Also, its hell on your gums. One night of smoking is equal to a weeks worth of tweeking with dry mouth and total neglect. Try it if you don't believe me. Watch your gum lines recede away along with your hopes of not growing old alone. Although this probably has more to do with dry mouth and vascular constriction than the actual chemical attacking your gums.

Also the freebase is dangerously potent. MDPV is already potent, being active on the level of mere milligrams, and the freebase, being a smaller molecule, is going to require even less weight, and inhalation is a more efficient route of administration so the risk of overdose is very likely and vaporizing the freebase is not recommended.
Because its very easy to inhale a lethal dose of vapor in one hit and not even realize it until its too late, and given how fast freebase evaporates and breaks down, my recommendation is to freebase an amount of powder no larger than what you would comfortable sniff in one sitting, and base it each time you want a hit. If you freebase a whole gram, not only are you likely to inhale 250mg in a single hit, but if your not planning on using a whole gram in a few hours, you'll need an air tight bottle to store the excess in, and even then, it will spoil.

I done spent so damn much time on the intro, Im going to have to half ass the actual freebasing. Too much illicit coffee got me rambling...

QUICK!

1. Stir in baking soda into near boiling water in a glass till no more baking soda will dissolve, then add more hot water to get the last of the bicarbonate in solution.
2. Put in your pipe an amount of powder NO MORE THAN what you would sniff in one sitting. Then remove a slight amount.
3. By drop-wise addition, add just enough Everclear to dissolve all your mdpv. Add 1-2 extra drops to account for evaporation.
4. Put ONLY on drop of baking soda water into your everclear solution with the mdpv. You will see the solution cloud then immediately clear again.
5. Now, slowly evaporate off the everclear using mild heat. Stop when the solvent is almost gone and let any latent heat in the glass and solution to evap the rest and bring the vessel down to a cool room temperature. (takes some practice) As the alcohol gets almost gone, you should see the yellow freebase oil 'running' from the alcohol, and sticking to the sides of the glass. When done, you should be left with a yellow, stinky oil. This is your freebase. Vaporize it but try not to take too much, and don't feed it to the cat or dog or neighbor children.


Dr. BurningBunny

 

[Dedbeet]

Not only is it unstable, but its a very irritating molecule. If you do decide to vape it, try to limit yourself to two times that day. When you wake up in the morning, you'll understand why. You will feel like you have been kicked in the lungs by a horse--the MDPV horse.

Well then smoking the salt is a lot safer, would ya say? Cuz it doesn't feel like being kicked in the chest by a horse the next day... I've gotten some minor wheezing, but otherwise it's fine, not even particularly irritating to smoke IMO.

 

[indicameds]

Damn good first post Dr.

 

[Vitamin Airplane]

Can someone explain the procedure for smoking it to me? I'm either missing the hit or not doing it right. I'm using a test tube and a propane torch at its lowest flame with a sprinkle of baking soda and a drop or two of water, which seems to boil off too quickly and then I think I just wasted it. It's the vapor fumes you want, right? This is really tricky to get right. I've read too many methods, and the simplest was add some baking soda to your hit, and a dot of water. That was kind of the end of the half ass explanation. he said you can base while you smoke it that way, but I tried and failed that way. I don't have everclear. Will vodka or just 99% iso work?

Oops, sorry. Didn't catch that obvious tip on the iso the first time. Ok, here I probably go wasting a little more when I fuck it up.

Well, it almost kind of worked...nothing impressive though. Maybe I need a good glass pipe. They always seem to get too hot and crack though. Do they make pyrex glass pipes? Nobody seems to be too specific about the powder amounts, How much baking soda in how much water? Maybe that's what's wrong. I still get more of a buzz snorting it, so I must be missing something?

 

[Dedbeet]

^ If you wanna just smoke it (rather than vaporize it), drop 5mg onto a piece of foil or into a glass pipe and proceed. If the Dr. above is right about how irritating the freebase vape is, you're better off smoking the HCl salt than vaporizing the freebase.

 

[Vitamin Airplane]

Are pyrovalerones stable as the free base? IIRC some of the beta ketones don't like being in the free base form. I know MDPV degrades in aqueous solution (as the salt)

And yeah, dissolve it in water, basify the water, and then hope you can get the base out by warming it like you can with cocaine, otherwise extract with a non-polar solvent and evap the solvent to get your product. You want to use as concentrated a solution as possible, and add the base as a solution (otherwise you get unreacted whatever-base in your product because it gets covered with drug freebase).

It would seem that for IV purposes, you want it to dissolve in water easily. Nothing leaves the water, you just have to draw and shoot really fast. I injected some water that I had tried to freebase with in a test tube. I actually cracked a Kimax test tube trying to get it back into at least something I could see, but there must be an exact temp it becomes a bit more stable at. Has anyone just stuck a good thermometer into a test tube and held it in boiling water to slowly heat and find the crucial point. I think I must've done something right. Not sure what, but I'm a strange kind of high, and kind of jittery feeling. I haven't eaten anything since yesterday though. I think my stomach is mad. I sure don't feel like I want to eat anything, but I feel empty inside. This is bizarre. It's the only marginally impressive and possibly worrisome effect I got out of the whole 500mg's. I think it's because I shot the water I shot into the test tube and then filtered and injected. It did appear to have some tiny specs of light brown oil in it, but so small you could barely see it. I think I made something powerful out of this crap, finally. I'm kind of amazed at the way it's coming on now. I hope it doesn't continue to get beyond a good time. It's a bit scary how my heart is thumping, but it always did that when I tripped all those years. I think it's handled worse by far, but then I am just sitting here doing nothing to exert myself and sweating a bit like I always did on Ritalin. I think I detect a small similarity in this buzz. I definitely feel the MD...my jaw is doing it's thing and I clench my teeth a bit. Not sure I'm enjoying this yet, and wondering if I can act normal around family.

AAAHHHH!!! Finally, something resembling euphoria! WOOHOOOO!!! I think I'm tripping balls without any visuals at the moment. Not like any high I've obtained before. This shit just spooks me. I think every other pack could be weak or strong, or maybe just a few grains throughout the 500mg has MDPV in it? I think I just found the potential "could be too powerful in an hour" slight worry of a new buzz! New to me anyway. It certainly took a lot more than just a tiny bump. Those weren't doing shit unless I snorted them, and then I just barely felt strange and slightly energetic and a bit anxious, but I'm always anxious, even when I just smoke pot now. It doesn't seem to do the same thing to me as it used to. I was forced to quit almost completely when the doc was piss testing me, but I never passed anyway. They finally looked at all the results from the whole two years and I had the right drugs in my system only once out of who knows how many fucking tests. I finally just quit seeing my pain doc, because it's a long drive, and he had me coming weekly and gave me dated prescription so I could only get two days dosage at a time, which was still enough to get high, but my arms look like hell, and he wouldn't let me go travel to another friend, so I had to stay home and go through severe withdrawals for about a month. Clonodine and Hydroxyzine helped with the WD symptoms a bit. I was just tired as hell, but I believe I'm done with shooting pills anyway.

Sorry, I'm in a weird mode and just rambling on now, aren't I? I'll try to report back later. I may have a new way to use this, if you're not afraid of a needle. The test tube was blackened on the bottom walls and I think that water absorbed something pretty fucking potent. Damn! So unpredictable! I sure hope I'm not awake for days. Just trying to figure out the best way to get it to work is kind of a mystery. I don't think I've seen anyone recommend this way. If there was a little of the oils in the largest bump I tried yet, after failing pretty miserably on the many varying basing techniques I've read here. None really worked more than snorting it. I did not want to just sprinkle it on a bowl and try to smoke just the powder. What do you call that? Smoking salt? That doesn't sound good at all. In fact, it may be somewhat unique but dangerously unpredictable for most people. I can see how anyone who hasn't at least tripped a few times and is able to handle the tension of a slight OD trip might panic a bit right now.
I simply don't care if I keel in the name of scientific mental exploration. I just hope although I'm no longer trying to rush it either. I just need a break from boring old reality as it is every so often, ya know? It didn't degrade this time, but I'm not sure if it was just the right amount, or the stuff that melted in the water that I injected a small filtered shot. I have more! Probably about 5 more. I banged that first I think, then after awhile didn't feel anything so got a little braver thinking it's weak as hell, which it is! You have to change something I think. I think it's pretty safe to IV if you filter the small bit of oil floating around in the previously heated to much and craked a pretty tough test tube. I had to do something with the water before it started leaking, I figured, so poured it into a small pan for IV solutions...actually just the bottom of a coke can, polished with acetone of course, to remove the ink and whatever else. Has anyone tried extracting this shit with acetone? It evaporates quickly and doesn't leave behind anything harmful. I've used it to make my own Salvia extracts. I had to stop playing with that shit. It's interesting, but I don't like tripping alone and whomever is taking a hit becomes the entertainment for everyone else sitting around, right? One of my best friends almost jumped up and wanted to kick my ass the first time he took a toke. He didn't believe me and took a big old toke on top of some weed which I had no idea, but it can increase the effect like tenfold. He broke on through on his first toke, and it kind of put him on another planet. When he came back he jumped up and I had to grab him and remind him that it was only a minute and it'll be over in another minute or two. He later explained that (FUCK! I'm beginning a book!) his entire world turned into another dimension of what looked like picket fences that didn't follow the dimensions we comprehend. Although, I'm sure I've seen just about everything that can make you think you really fucked up this time and you're never going to stop tripping.
Remeber when you ran away and I got on my knees and begged you not to leave because I'd go berserk?
Well, you left me annniehow and then the days got worse and worse and now you see I've gone completely out of my mind, and
They're coming to take me away! HA HAAAA!!!
They're coming to take me away Ho! Ho! Hee! Hee! Ha! Ha!
To the happy home with flowers and trees and chirping birds!
They're coming to take me away! Ha Ha!
Ho Ho Hee Hee Ha Ha to the funny farm where life is beautful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're coming to take me away! Ha ha
(Everyone join in now...you should know the words! It's a classic. Sorry it just came to me and I can't seem to stop the song in my head. It's not too long and if you don't have a clue this will be a special treat when you look it up and listen to it.
You thought it was a joke and so you laughed, YOU LAUGHED! when I has said that losing you would make me flip my lid, RIGHT?!
You know you laughed. I HEARD you laugh.
You laughed and laughed and laughed and then you left and now you see I'm utterly mad.

AND!!!

They're coming to take me away! HA!HA!
They're coming to take me away Ho! Ho! Hee! Hee! HA!!!HAAA
to the funny farm with basket weavers who sit and twidle their toes and thumbs...
THEY'RE COMING TO TAKE ME AWAY HA!!HAAAAAAAAA!!!
I cooked your food, I cleaned your house, and this is how you pay me back
For all my kind unselfish loving deeds? HUH?!?!?
Well you just wait, they'll find you yet and when they do they'll put you in the ASPCA you mangy mutt

AND...

Man, that helped some. It's calmed down a bit now. I was sort of peaking, I guess. Good thing it didn't get much worse eh? You probably all think I'm strange now, but that's ok because no one remembers your name.

Ok, I must stop typing random, crazy shit! (but possibly cool under the right circumstances)

I'm wired and bored now, and I can't seem to stop my run-away misfiring neurotransmitters in my brain. Molecules are all over, but I can't really see them up close, and I have some strays that wander in and out of my ears and make me think nonstop. That is why I'm crazy, I guess. I can't stop analyzing everything, and crticizing the ignorant masses.

Dust lying under the bed of unlawful couples
Eyes in their nipples

Whoa, did I type that out loud? Sorry, got Doors in my head opening when they should stay closed and closing when they should be open. I'm just an intelligent individual who has a unique thought process. People tend to love me, hate me, or just totally back away with a strange look of disbelief or disapproval...mostly authority figures and past employers. Fuck them all!!! They just can't deal with an overanalytical mind. It was good for troubleshooting almost anything for a long time, but certain people just couldn't stand little things I thought so trivial it was ridiculous. LOL

I got fired for wearing my coat in a building once, and I didn't even work there. I was a kind of an outsourced IT tech for them. I worked wherever I had to go. Of course, I stopped getting fucked up during work hours when I was young anyway. If I got stoned, especially in the morning, it was always hard fight that inevitable and involuntary nap feeling by the time afternoon rolled around, twenty weeks later. Or maybe it just felt that slow. I had become a professional, or so I fooled them into believing that at first.

Ok, I'm signing out. I hope you've enjoyed my random thoughts for today. Someone was right, this made me get musical and I had to listen to The Doors as soon as I thought of them. Absolutely Live is my favorite Doors album. It's one of the few albums that was more intense and than the studio, and it just makes you feel the strangeness of what it would be like to hear them at one their craziest live performances. When I first heard it, I was hooked. I listened to that album over and over again until I knew every word and I could sing it lke Jim. Then I bought every album they created and listened to them each the same way.

Alright, the Klonopin took the edge off a bit, I think. I ate one earlier to see what it would do. Xanax does nothing when you're on this stuff!

So, which drugs work with this nicely? I can't tell if taking a toke earlier did anything or not. It sure didn't at the time. 8( Alright, I think I'm going to go flip my brain over now. I think I smell something burning.

If this is annoying or became too off topic, just delete it or something if it bothers anyone.

Haha!!! That was interesting and rather fun. I may need another one. Nice to meet you all. Welcome to my brain on legal drugs. I'll bet you'd all better stock up before it's all illegal. I just purchased 2G . I hope it's insanely potent, so it lasts a long time. Something has definitely been changed since so many people told of their carelessness and disrespect for potentially too powerful of a substance at the time. It sound like most were just impatient and took too much man, they took too much and if they tried to fight it they'd get brain bubbles. Been there, done that. But now I have to admit, I wonder what it feels like to take too much? Is it just kind of like a too much acid kind of scary? Because I kind of like skating the edge of reality occasionally. (There is no reality really. It's just some rather funny concept some people invented.)

 

[orange floyd]

anyone notice freebasing monkeydust (as we've come to call MDPV in my parts) smells kinda like.. semen? two of my boys freebased some off foil in my car and thats what it reeeeeeeeeeked of lmao

 

[Dedbeet]

^^ Friend of mine says it smells like chlorine to him. I s'pose such associations are entirely subjective. Fwiw, I'd go more with chlorine for the smoke, but PV dissolved in liquid can smell semen-like at times (then again, so can chlorine... LOL).

P.S. to Vitamin_Airplane... fwiw I enjoy reading (and writing) MDPV-fuelled rants, please continue as desired . Might be joining ya as of tomorrow, too.

 

[Vitamin Airplane]

Glad I could be of some entertainment. I felt like I could write an entire very disorganized, totally random, insane book. Anyone know if you can play guitar on this stuff? It would be cool if it influences me like acid or something. Some of my best original songs, eeriest rhythms, and leads have been the direct influence of LSD. It taught me how to play leads. Like the discovery of the DNA helix, I doubt I ever would've taught myself how to play leads if I'd never looked at it from that perspective.
Any musicians tried playing on it? It totally slipped my mind until now. I should've blasted away some clouds for awhile just to see if it enhances or confuses my creativity. The problem with playing on psychedelics is I don't remember what I did that was such a breakthrough unless I record it or play a riff over and over until it burns permanently into my brain. I started way too late though. I wish someone would've gave me a guitar when I was just a kid. I just picked it up when I was around 20 or so when people read some of my poetry and everyone said I should learn to play guitar, because they're so lyrical. I used to spend long nights coming down and just writing cryptic things quite a few became songs. If I'd started when I was like 12, I would've been very famous or dead by now, I think. I never planned on living past 27 anyway. I think I'm going to try to figure out exactly what I did right here. I know I'll pay for it later. Do you think 2mg Kpins can break through it. I think it did calm me a bit after awhile. Or it just wore off? I'm thinking 6 of them would knock anyone out. These are the ones that turn my 200+ lb friend into a blithering, falling idiot if he takes even one. People who have no tolerance can't handle the big 2's.

I taste kind of a dusty flavor, but nothing too bad. You always taste some weird kind of flavor when you shoot most drugs. At least I do. I can't think of anything it reminds me of.

 

[Dedbeet]

When I had sleep deprivation bigtime last week (between the 7th and the 20th) all I could smell was this sickening marshmallow-y perfume smell everywhere toward the end of it. Glad I managed to end that one, it was getting ugly w/only two full nights sleep in almost two weeks. Hint -- don't even try it, it's freakin' disabling.

 

[orange floyd]

^^ Friend of mine says it smells like chlorine to him. I s'pose such associations are entirely subjective. Fwiw, I'd go more with chlorine for the smoke, but PV dissolved in liquid can smell semen-like at times (then again, so can chlorine... LOL).

P.S. to Vitamin_Airplane... fwiw I enjoy reading (and writing) MDPV-fuelled rants, please continue as desired . Might be joining ya as of tomorrow, too.

yeaaa that chlorine smell man, and my window was the only one open so the smell all went right toward me. my boy said it was muchhh stronger than smoked crack which he had tried once

 

[Dedbeet]

yeaaa that chlorine smell man, and my window was the only one open so the smell all went right toward me. my boy said it was muchhh stronger than smoked crack which he had tried once

It is, altho crack has a unique smell too (kinda perfumy, hard to describe).

 

[Vitamin Airplane]

Crack had a weird, but strangely addictive flavor to me. I just never felt high enough on that crap until I smoked in with some weed. It then gave me way more than I ever expected. It's like it increased the high way beyond what I though possible. Is that normal, or did I just get a really pure piece that time, because if that's the way it works, I don't see why anyone would ever smoke it any other way.

Man, does this stuff turn your arms yellow everywhere you inject it? My arms look worse than ever now. Damn, I'm going to have to wear sleeves until this shit clears up. I don't think I've ever looked like such a junkie. Does coloration go away pretty quickly? I think I have too many fucked viens. I used to have huge arm veins. I didn't even need to tie off before all my biggest veins kind of collapsed. They heal eventually, right? I know it takes a long time. At first, this stuff wasn't leaving any bad looking shit, but now it looks like I've been on a month binge. I think it mainly happens when I can't find a good vein and have to poke around a bit.

 

[Dr.BurningBunny]

Man, does this stuff turn your arms yellow everywhere you inject it? My arms look worse than ever now.

Are you shooting the freebase? I wouldn't shoot the freebase, you want to inject something water soluble, like the salt.

The freebase is an oil and wont adsorb very well...



~The Good Dr.

 

[indicameds]

Yea there is no need to do anything to it if your getting it from a decent vendor. It ships in salt form and Ive never had a problem fitting 10mg in 30units of water. Ive had to use a touch of heat with a couple batches but not even close to boiling. And even when I tried to smoke it, it chased fine on foil without doing anything to it. I guess Im still just not understanding why you'd want to go through all the hassle to make it less stable. Maybe Im missing something though.

 

[Vitamin Airplane]

Actually, if you heat it ever so slightly before shooting, just until it starts to bubble, then WOW!!! It gives you a rush like you can't get any other way....and it clears up too. There are no salty looking chunks left unfiltered after drawing it up.

My arms are actually fine since I started doing it that way. It was before I figured that out they were turning yellowish.

 

[Vitamin Airplane]

I am done with it, unless someone discovers a way to reduce the ridiculously long sleep problem/half-life, or changes the chemistry it so it doesn't do that. I can't stay awake for days like that, unless I have something really fun to do until it's over (like a 3 day music festival or something!), and a place to crash hard when it's over.

You know what used to be a fun legal, prescription, antidepressant like no other? Serzone! But they yanked it, at least that brand name. I want to get the generic version (Nefazodone) of that. It's still available as a generic, apparently, but I'd have to go to a shrink and get physicals all the time. Man, even my friends loved that stuff. LOL It's the only antidepressant I ever really felt good on, and it never caused me any health problems or real side effects. I think 2 people got it banned because they had liver problems. I think 1 or 2 died and that was it! They yanked it all! WTF? That's not fair! Every drug has some small minority that doesn't react well to it! What about those millions who were feeling better than ever? I believe it was only one brand that caused any deaths or problems, and there are a few brands. (or were anyway.)

ONLY 1 in every 250,000-350,000 per year? That's nothing! Other currently approved antidepressants cause people to commit suicide all the freaking time! 8)

Nefazodone (Serzone, Nefadar) is an antidepressant marketed by Bristol-Myers Squibb. Its sale was discontinued in 2003 in some countries due to the rare incidence of hepatotoxicity (liver damage), which could lead to the need for a liver transplant, or even death. The incidence of severe liver damage is approximately 1 in every 250,000 to 300,000 patient-years.