• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe |

Fractals and Buddhism

delta 9 (below) is right of course... edit/delete... to quote Ms. Emily Latella:

"Whats all this fuss I hear... well then NEVER MIND!"
(if that's not an extremely pure Buddhist remark I dont know what is, haha!)

EmilyLitella.jpg
 
Last edited:
^I'll try to say this as respectfully as possible, as I like DwayneHoover and his posts very much.

While I certainly dont agree with Ismene's way of thinking, and his battery of insults aimed at various targets in this (and likely other) threads, please be aware that these types of comments are not helping and you're only stooping to his level and adding fuel to the fire.

It may be best to just close this thread and walk away at this point. I personally feel as though we have done a great disservice to the OP and for that I apologize.
 
^I'll try to say this as respectfully as possible, as I like DwayneHoover and his posts very much.

...snip...

I personally feel as though we have done a great disservice to the OP and for that I apologize.

Why thanks, delta_9... I always enjoy reading yours as well.

So far as original poster, I doubt he's very disappointed... I think it was just a sort of random psychedelic musing and conversation starter. I mean, honestly, while the tenets of Buddhism can be seen as vaguely fractal in a very abstract manner insomuch as they are somewhat "self-referential" (it tells your mind to contemplate the nature of mind, and then clear the mind of thoughts... use "mind" to attain a state of "no mind", and the implications thereof, and experiences attained thereby) I don't see any really concrete connections to discuss.

Hence I agree lets stop talking about a certain person who probably enjoys it far too much, and get back to the most important question:

WHERE DID THE GUY'S WIFE ABOVE *BUY* HIS DELICIOUS AND AWESOME GREEN FRACTAL CAULIFLOWER???? I am now officially obsessed with tracking one down and eating it while on psychedelics in order to fully Grok its fractal Buddhist essence!

Or even better GROWING them! HOMEWORK: find the official botanical name for, AND source of seeds for this marvel! That would be so friggin awesome to make gifts of these to all our friends... "Whoa" after "Whoa" and great delight and amazement would ensue to brighten the day of everyone present! =D Spreading Green Fractal Cauliflower joy in this manner would be a truly compassionate and Buddhist thing to do, IMO
 
...That would be so friggin awesome to make gifts of these to all our friends...

Indeed, dāna is central to Buddhism and feeding or otherwise providing service for the Sangha or others would generate much karma (merit) :)

When I get my garden started there will actually be little food left for myself lol, as my main interest is in feeding others.
 
Great post nopipes. Thanks for that. Incidentally I do like Alan Watts, I only pointed out that he died a pathetic, broken alcoholic because he did. It's not because I don't like him. And whenever I hear people quoting him to "Hang up the phone on psychedelics" it always makes me cringe. If he'd stuck to psychedelics perhaps he'd have been able to stop killing himself with whisky.
 
It IS akin to saying that "well, so many Christians back in the medieval ages committed atrocities under the feudal system, thus there is something basic to all Christianity that is evil..."

But there's a problem with this logic, which is that not all Christians commit these acts anymore,

But the question is WHY they don't commit those acts anymore isn't it.

I'll try and explain this again so you understand it. The christians DIDN'T stop committing torture because the teachings of Christianty influenced them to do so. They stopped because democracy and science overwhelmed them and prevented them from carrying on their torture. In countries where religion still holds sway they still torture with impunity. It's NOT the christianity that teaches them to behave, it's other things like democracy, science and non-religous thinking. Don’t for a second think that if the Christians still held power in this country things would be as they are now.

Can you really not see that you are making an observation on people in general rather than the religions they follow?

But the religon was created by people wasn't it? So why are you so convinced that the people involved in 700 year old Buddhist traditions don't have anything to do with Buddhism? Surely the Dala Lama has something to do with Buddhism doesn't he? Or are you saying he knows absolutely nothing about it?

Actually, I think he consulted documented proof of the original teachings of the Buddha

And the Dala Lama didn't I presume.
 
Lol, I just can't fathom how you can't see this very basic distinction here...

and the Dala Lama didn't I presume.

I'm sure he did. And then he decided follow the teachings of Buddha.. and then he did some other bad stuff that wasn't related to the teachings of Buddha. This is a Buddhist making a mistake... not a Buddhist following the teachings of Buddha.
 
Oh my, oh my, what a tread.

While buddha was alive in India, he and his teachings grew in popularity, and was at one time larger than hinduism itself in India.

After Buddha´s death, Hinduist priests began to reclaim their power, by turning people back to hinduism. This was partly done by proclaiming that Buddha had been one of Vishnu´s awaited incarnations (the 6th one I think). And thus bringing the buddhists back in the fold, so to speak. Leading to buddhism almost disappearing from India again.

Thing is, Buddhist monks had traveled in all directions as missionaries. to bring the liberation of truth to other people of the world.

In Tibet, before the buddhist missionaries arrived. The Tibetans had a shamanistic religion, probably animistic aswell, similar to most other shamanistic religions around the world.
Their society was definitely also your standard feudal/tribal hierarchic society. As seen anywere else in the world in this time of the human evolution.

When buddhist missionaries reached Tibet, they did not repress the indigenous culture or religion of Tibet. Like christian missionaries have done around the world. This is because Buddhism is not mutually exclusive, as such. (Just look at Japan and Shintoism/Zen relations)

What happened is that buddhism merged with the indigenous tibetan shamanistic religion, to form something new: Tibetan buddhism.
Hence Tibetan buddhism is filled with superstition, rituals, gods, demons and what not.….…all kinds of blibber blabber.

Buddhism, as thought by the buddha, was very "scientific" and logical.
It is very special in that way, that in it´s original form, it is not so much a religion, but more a philosophy about the truth of reality.

Regarding the Tibetan society, buddhism also just merged into, and became a part, of the already existing hierarchic feudal/tribal society, which definitely was very harsh and ruthless, compared to what we are used to today. Obviously.

I think Tibetan buddhism has been romantisized in the west. This has probably happened because of the brutal invasion and repression caused by the chinese invaders. And because of the Tibetans fantastic pacifistic way of fighting back against the opressors.
Just think of that monk who burned himself alive in protest.
Also Tibet has for a long way up into the 19th century been a very mysterious and untouched land.
Adding to the romantisism even today.

it´s definitely been overly romantisized .

it seems to me that Tibetan buddhism is the strain of buddhism that the most westerners are converting to. Which I find kind of rediculous, as it´s definitely filled with more mumbo jumbo than other “strains” of Buddhism.

but what ever. Who am I to judge......

I do think though, that dalai lama is an amazing person. And I do hope that the Tibetan people will be free one day. I doubt it though.

On the topic of drugs and buddhism.
All kinds of drugs or inebriants are a completely NO NO! if you are a buddhist.

Drugs destroy your concentration in meditation, and clouds your mind from being able to see the truth of reality.

Of cause, lots of buddhists around the world drink alcohol etc. This is because they are laymen.
At some point through all your incarnations you are meant to realise more and more the Necessity of eliminating suffering, by experiencing the truth of reality via meditation. This also demands detaching yourself from the physical world. And abstaining from inebriants, sex etc, and also forsaking worldly goods.
in other words, becoming a monk.

So basicaly a buddhist layman, is just some one who has not realised the Necessity of becoming a monk, but who will realise it, in future reincarnations.

Just want to say that I personaly find talk of drugs and buddhism to make no sense at all. What ever the context.

in buddhism, any drug inebriation is just an illusion.
 
These past few weeks have just been too confusing. My religious beliefs change rapidly and constantly, and ultimately I have decided that I have NO idea what to believe anymore, and I don't think I ever will know. I accept ignorance, because it is the only way my mind will ever have any peace. Maybe at some point, I will be a bit more grounded and be able to make a decision but right now, I need to just take babysteps and focus on my life. I am just going to live my life, trying to be the best person I can be, helping as many people as possible, and hopefully changing the world for the better.
 
These past few weeks have just been too confusing. My religious beliefs change rapidly and constantly, and ultimately I have decided that I have NO idea what to believe anymore, and I don't think I ever will know. I accept ignorance, because it is the only way my mind will ever have any peace. Maybe at some point, I will be a bit more grounded and be able to make a decision but right now, I need to just take babysteps and focus on my life. I am just going to live my life, trying to be the best person I can be, helping as many people as possible, and hopefully changing the world for the better.

This is a good place to be, many people are very attached to their beliefs. Accepting ignorance is much simpler :)
 
^^^ Strongly agree. Just look at all the people who are SURE (as in 100% sure, willing to die [and kill]) for their beliefs. And look at how different all of those beliefs are. They are all clearly deluded, but nevertheless certain about their convictions. If you are confused and you know it, clap your hands: you are least worlds ahead of these people. Stay with your confusion.

For 30 years I was sure of my beliefs. Always thinking, always learning, always trying to be open, but sure that I knew... Then I realized that I didn't know. Ouch.

Stay with it for as long as you can. Keep learning, but never assume that you know.
 
in buddhism, any drug inebriation is just an illusion.

Yeah this is definately what you find from reading that book "Zig zag zen buddhism and psychdelics". The buddhists think psychdelics are a load of shit compared to their own "true" way. Whereas I got the very strong impression that buddhists were full of shit and that psychedelics were much the better path to follow.

I'd like to see how an "enlightened" buddhist actually lives and how enlightened he really is. As Terence Mckenna once said about religion "It's all very well sweeping the ashram for 50 years telling yourself you're becoming enlightened".
 
On the topic of drugs and buddhism.
All kinds of drugs or inebriants are a completely NO NO! if you are a buddhist.

What exactly is inebriation in this sea of illusory relativity? Being on a search for answers and not protocol has led me to believe that my perspective and info on psychoactives are drawn from a much different source than ancient texts.

In middle school I studied Buddhism for a little bit and I would have left it there if it were not for psychedelics. (NO! NO! stop them rule breakers before they figure out that there is more than one way to anything!) Growing up in physical la-la land over here makes life lessons that are based in paradox sound like bullshit when their relevance has been shown barely any to you your entire life. (But seriously, the religios always relics no matter how profound of words are used, existence likes to make a laugh of our terminology for words with time.)


in buddhism, any drug inebriation is just an illusion.


Well, if I recall, this whole thing was taught to seemingly be an illusion. I like the trickery of both, abra-kadabra!

Yeah this is definately what you find from reading that book "Zig zag zen buddhism and psychdelics". The buddhists think psychdelics are a load of shit compared to their own "true" way. Whereas I got the very strong impression that buddhists were full of shit and that psychedelics were much the better path to follow.

I have read plenty of stupid reports on erowid by Buddhists who took psychedelic drugs just to not focus on their effects (hmm, is what they already know influencing this?) and claim how they don't even resemble the same concepts of where they have been brought otherwise.

Hey jackass, if you take that will thing and try to to put it somewhere, even with a great catalyst around... great job proving your point.
 
Last edited:
What exactly is inebriation in this sea of illusory relativity? Being on a search for answers and not protocol has led me to believe that my perspective and info on psychoactives are drawn from a much different source than ancient texts.

In middle school I studied Buddhism for a little bit and I would have left it there if it were not for psychedelics. (NO! NO! stop them rule breakers before they figure out that there is more than one way to anything!) Growing up in physical la-la land over here makes life lessons that are based in paradox sound like bullshit when their relevance has been shown barely any to you your entire life. (But seriously, the religios always relics no matter how profound of words are used, existence likes to make a laugh of our terminology for words with time.)
I´m sorry. but I don´t understand what you are saying. it doesn´t make sense.
are you saying you made your own kind of buddhism with psychedelics?

Well, if I recall, this whole thing was taught to seemingly be an illusion. I like the trickery of both, abra-kadabra!
Yes, concensus reality is an illusion, the true reality buddhists are striving to see/experience is that everything is transient, nothing is permanent. We might all understand this intellectually, (that everything will change) but you need to experience it, which can only be achieved through meditation.
Doing drugs messes with your concentration and makes your meditation weak.
On top of that, what you can experience on psychedelic drugs might resemble the experiences you can have through meditation, but you will never getter wiser or reach enlightenment through drugs. Therefore buddhists see drugs as something you must forsake.
I´m not a buddhist! I just find it funny when drug-crazed hippies dabble in pseudo-buddhism. (no offense ment, if anyone feels hurt)

Edit:Another reason buddhists don´t take drugs is that it leads to bad karma. Being inebriated makes you loose you mental equilibrium, and thus leads to unwholesome actions, which cause bad karma.
 
Last edited:
On days I that I believe Buddhism (enlightenment??) I see fractals.

On days when I close my mind and refuse to believe, I do not see fractals.

Does anyone else experience this?

I find it absolutely mind blowingly wonderful.



Also, is enlightenment the same thing as schizophrenia?

is this a joke or what?!
 
Yeah this is definately what you find from reading that book "Zig zag zen buddhism and psychdelics". The buddhists think psychdelics are a load of shit compared to their own "true" way. Whereas I got the very strong impression that buddhists were full of shit and that psychedelics were much the better path to follow.

I'd like to see how an "enlightened" buddhist actually lives and how enlightened he really is. As Terence Mckenna once said about religion "It's all very well sweeping the ashram for 50 years telling yourself you're becoming enlightened".

LOL! :D

Thanks for the hilarious McKenna quote, Ismene... and I do agree totally that alot people who place themselves and their own "true way" on a big pestal are full of shit, and that you can in fact learn a helluva lot more from one dose of a psychedelic. Then again I'm a hedonistic nymphomanic druggie at heart who believes the universe wants us to experience pleasure, on "its" behalf, that this is at the core why it chose-to/was-caused-to manifest into being out of nothingness, so what the hell do I know? Buddhists seem to tend to be rather "anti-pleasure" because its somehow supposed to be deluding you into liking being "attached" your body and your life too much, instead of wishing you were dead, to which I say :p

Great post.
 
Last edited:
are you saying you made your own kind of buddhism with psychedelics?

I harness protips and ideas that work, I am here to get shit done. I'm not much of a hippie and I am here to help this Earth with what I can learn through states of transience and then work.

When and where some things make sense have matched up with psychedelics pretty damn well and I do have to thank them for it. I'm a fake fool, carry on.

EDIT:

I chase the intangible for a living and hopefully you will see why within my life through its applications. Until then, I just scrapped and raped every religion because I won't agree with what I know is not full by wisdom.

I did not make shit by the way, no copycat machine here. I have decided to dedicate my life from transitioning from a mostly baroque (esque) artist to a polymath (but not just, polyeverything... the knowledge to intuition tubes really are cumulative) and there is some ridiculous sounding shit in between.


I like the way you see things, DwayneHoover


Welcome to the club, I'm here to fix this sometimes incredibly dull looking ___ machine, I am not content just sitting all damn day. (Context!)


I'm not a true anything by most peoples standards, I don't give head for a living.

I´m sorry. but I don´t understand what you are saying. it doesn´t make sense.
are you saying you made your own kind of buddhism with psychedelics?

If Buddha was able to sample Alexander Shulgin's laboratory and live in "the future", I have a feeling he would have done it differently too. I feel that I have been put here for a potential of reason and if not I am here to at least provide some free cookies for everyone. I think I will eat one too.

and I do agree totally that alot people who place themselves and their own "true way" on a big pestal are full of shit

It sure should look like it, as somebody who knows some nuances of this universe exceptionally well I follow success and entropy.


avvy changed, props for visionaries but I feel that naggers don't like that I am not pretending to be somebody who is in my avatar.
 
Last edited:
Top