Forgiveness

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Most people reading this will probably agree that learning to forgive people who've done you wrong in the past is generally healthier and more justified than holding onto grudges, for the most part. (I'm sure there are exceptions. Will our one or two token Satanists, who believe that vengeance is a good thing and forgiveness is for the weak, please stand up and be counted?)

At the same time, excesses of anything tend not to be good, forgiveness included. Being too quick to let anything slide would make someone an easy target for exploitation, for sure.

So where does this boundary lie? From your own experience, what generally has to happen before you can feel truly forgiving about something? What are the circumstances or criteria that tend, at least for you personally, to qualify an incident as forgivable?

Are there are any things that have been done to you that you're fairly certain you'll never forgive? Speaking hypothetically, what would need to happen for you to be able to forgive these offenses?

Does anyone know any good thought exercises or general life attitudes that are good for cultivating forgiveness?

 

[The_Winner]

I believe holding onto grudges is never positive. It's a negative bunch of thoughts, which create more negative thoughts & emotions.

One can be all-forgiving, but that doesn't mean one can't avoid exploitation.

I think describing my personal ability of forgiveness won't help you understand it any more, since it's just a personal state of mind, which is different for all of us. At times I could be more forgiving, than others, but what I'm striving for would be full acceptance of everything.

I do believe, that the more one can stay mindful, the more kind, forgiving and understanding one will be.
So yeah, I would suggest practicing meditation, especially loving-kindness meditation.

 

[getreal]

So where does this boundary lie? From your own experience, what generally has to happen before you can feel truly forgiving about something?

I would LOVE to be able to do this- I now its the right thing and since I believe in God, its also the way he would want it.
BUT, I cant do it. NO matter how much time has gone by- no matter how much I have improved my life.
Now, I'm speaking about people vs people forgiveness. I was wronged x2, in two different situations. One was 5 years ago and the other was 2 years ago. I cant bring myself to forgive either of them. I don't hold the rage anymore, nor does it effect my everyday life, but I still hold a grudge.
Maybe I can learn something from this thread too.

 

[Zulkifar]

Funny this post started at this time. As I'm in a state of mind where a sense of rage I was in for the past 6 months has subsided and I've been pondering the subject of forgiveness.

I'm feeling good right now. The grudge has gone but I'm not sure it qualifies as 'forgiveness'. It's more about 'forgetting'. As when I think about the person I don't feel angry or hateful, just uncomfortable and an urge to be in the 'present'.

I guess to me forgiveness is maybe where you'd have no problem associating with the person like nothing happened? I guess in that Eckhart Tolle (I generally don't like this guy mind you) sense of being 'present' with that person and sensing no history.

Presently I don't really understand trying to 'exercise' forgiveness or trying to force yourself into it. It makes me feel worse. Time always helps with me.

 

[Unbreakable]

Why hold a grudge.... Just ignore them

 

[Jamshyd]

I never "believed" in forgiveness, because that had seemed the rational (if not sensible) way to go about doing things - it was perfectly natural and a "given" to me.

But experience has shown me that this very attitude can allow the right people to teach you exactly what an extreme desire for vengeance feels like.

I'll have more to say later, maybe.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I forgive almost instantly but I never forget.

 

[Knolij]

I find forgiveness a very hard thing indeed. Mainly because of the ways people have harmed me in the past. I find it difficult to trust anything anybody says or does who has wronged me before; once a 'trust bond' has been broken, it can never be repaired in my eyes as the feeling that they could always be plotting against you is always at the forefront of my mind.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I believe that once someone has tarnished themselves, you must treat them in the safest possible manner regarding your own interests.

In short, over personnel things: I give no second chances.

 

[Zulkifar]

Why hold a grudge.... Just ignore them

I was able to for the most part. But was so disturbed by seeing the dark side of a person who didn't seem to have ANY and the feeling of betrayal and being used and taken for granted was on a pretty serious level.

It's lucky I have the experience and age to deal with it better these days...

 

[Jamshyd]

As I am in a slightly better state of mind, I think I can elaborate better.

For me, forgiveness comes naturally - so much so that it is passive and it actually takes conscious activity on my part NOT to forgive. If I were to put it into words, I can sum it up as such: as everything is subject to mortality, so are grudges. What is the point of dying with a grudge?

When you're on your deathbed, are you even going to have the energy to consider all the grudges you dragged around with you?

But...

This sort of naiveté is, at least to me, part of a childlike character. When I feel that my forgiveness has been abused, I implode, tantrums start running around in my head and, at a few point of my life, I had gotten in a sort of trance-like state with my eyes glazed and unnaturally wide open, when I'd spout out all kinds of curses (as in, wishes of ill-will), usually in Arabic. I do not know what these are, but I eventually come down off them and all my curses evaporate.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I think I get ya, Jam. Forgiveness isn't deserved. It's just what makes sense to do.

 

[Raw Evil]

I forgive almost instantly but I never forget.

Same here. I hold on to the memory on an intellectual level, but try to keep it out of emotional thought.

 

[Chimeric]

Most of the time I forgive when I feel ready to do it. And this is regardless of whether or not I have received an apology.

I imagine it possible for me to never feel like forgiving one who has harmed me gravely, like if the trespasser causes me too much pain.

Forgiveness or the opposite of that... I choose whichever helps me get on with my life. Usually it's the former.

 

[MrM]

So where does this boundary lie? From your own experience, what generally has to happen before you can feel truly forgiving about something? What are the circumstances or criteria that tend, at least for you personally, to qualify an incident as forgivable?

I'm no expert on forgiveness, but personally i find forgiveness comes most easily with understanding.

For example, i didn't get on with my dad very well when i was a teenager. No need to go into details - nothing that unusual, just your average angry father / son relationship.

At the time i found it made me very angry and i found it difficult if not impossible to forgive him. Now i am older i can understand why things went the way they did and forgive him and even appreciate the relationship we have now.

If i hadn't talked to him about it and gained more understanding (and vice versa) forgiveness would have been harder.

Smaller anoyances between friends are most easily forgiven, usually because they don't last very long, but then i pick my friends carefully.

 

[The_Winner]

I'm no expert on forgiveness, but personally i find forgiveness comes most easily with understanding.

Exactly. It's not like someone harms you just for no reason. It's not in human nature to harm others.

Often the reasons of an act are so deep and people are at a very low level of mindfulness, that they don't understand them themselves.
I think most of the time, if not all the time people have this illusion that the harmful act will somehow help them. They even might get some twisted temporary pleasure out of it, but in the long run it's never really fulfilling, but the opposite.

Basically it means often people don't understand what they are doing. Some people call it insanity and I agree with them. Not saying I'm not one of them insane ones, tho. =P

For example when someone attacks you (mentally or physically), the mind will think that attacking back would be reasonable to solve the situation. But actually that's just the ego and it will only make the situation worse for both of you.

 

[MrM]

Exactly. It's not like someone harms you just for no reason. It's not in human nature to harm others.

For example when someone attacks you (mentally or physically), the mind will think that attacking back would be reasonable to solve the situation. But actually that's just the ego and it will only make the situation worse for both of you.

I think both of these things are generally true but not always the case.

I think there are some people out there who care so little for others and so much for themselves that they just don't care about hurting others to benefit themselves rather than are mistaken into thinking they are acting reasonably and not hurting others.

If someone attacked me physically and i couldn't run away for some reason i suspect there would be occasions when attacking them back would be the least bad thing to do, regardless of why they were attacking me. Fortunately this hasn't ever happened to me.

Having said that, the tendancy to attack back when someone attacks you emotionally is usually the wrong thing to do as it creates a viscious circle that is hard to break. This is especially true if what you perceived as their attack was a mistake on their part where they thought they were being reasonable but weren't - then it just seems to them like you are being difficult for no good reason.

 

[The_Winner]

I think there are some people out there who care so little for others and so much for themselves that they just don't care about hurting others to benefit themselves rather than are mistaken into thinking they are acting reasonably and not hurting others.

I agree. They believe that their benefit is more important, than others. But that still means they think they are acting reasonably. Just another variation of the same thing, imho.

If someone attacked me physically and i couldn't run away for some reason i suspect there would be occasions when attacking them back would be the least bad thing to do, regardless of why they were attacking me. Fortunately this hasn't ever happened to me.

Of course it's fine to defend yourself from harm, but there's a very thin line between defending and attacking. When someone punches you in the face, your ego will make you think that you need to punch back (and maybe several times) in order to regain/defend your honor/pride. That's not really defending yourself anymore, but defending your ego.
This goes exactly the same for verbal attacks - thin line between defending (explaining) your arguments and defending your ego.

 

[Mafioso]

forgiving a wrong that was never made right is weak minded. its allowing a problem to go unaddressed by just ignoring it and saying 'oh its ok ill get over it'. forgiving someone for scamming/taking advantage of you is also weak minded imo. not all things are forgiveable. someone that is untrustworthy doesnt need to be forgiven they need to gtfo of my life.

now when someone genuinely fucks up and makes effort to make right, thats when forgiveness should take place. like plenty of times me and my friends get a little out of control, do something stupid and someone gets pissed, bla blah blah. ill usually try and let it go that night then hash it out later on or the next day. a simple 'yo man i was out of line' is enough in my book, long as its genuine.

so basically, i forgive friends that fuck up, and forget about fucked up friends- or peolpe who decided to be schemers instead of friends.

 

[The_Winner]

forgiving a wrong that was never made right is weak minded. its allowing a problem to go unaddressed by just ignoring it and saying 'oh its ok ill get over it'. forgiving someone for scamming/taking advantage of you is also weak minded imo. not all things are forgiveable. someone that is untrustworthy doesnt need to be forgiven they need to gtfo of my life.

Forgiving doesn't mean you have to ignore the wrong-doing. You can forgive, but at the same time do everything you can do to avoid the same situation in the future as you would have done, if you didn't forgive.
Forgiving doesn't mean you will let yourself to be exploited. It's just a form of understanding and not keeping the negative baggage with you.

 

[moonyham]

Its on a case by case basis.

Some peoples actions deserve forgiveness, some dont.

Im not one to hold grudges... i can forgive(and have) basically anybody. Most of the time a grudge only exists out of miscommunication, and neither party really hates the other.

Exceptions do exist though, and there definitely is just plain, strait up assholes that dont deserve forgiveness.