Forgetting the Term, "I lost the magic" and just letting go

[severely etarded]

Rolling doesn't feel the same to me if I don't wait 3 months or so between rolls. Maybe I've been through too many periods of abuse, but I need breaks in between or the roll sucks. Point blank. It can still be enjoyable, but the experience is very dull in comparison to when I take breaks, and doesn't last nearly as long.

 

[bhamster]

Rolling doesn't feel the same to me if I don't wait 3 months or so between rolls. Maybe I've been through too many periods of abuse, but I need breaks in between or the roll sucks. Point blank. It can still be enjoyable, but the experience is very dull in comparison to when I take breaks, and doesn't last nearly as long.

I think there may be something with the quality of ecstasy that is being distributed today as compared to years ago. It seems as though there are so many pills with adulterants in them today (BZP, TFMPP and other piperazines, etc.)

My experience of rolling regularly (3x/week) happened back in 2005/6 in Ireland and the pills were consistently good. Sure, we'd get the occasional dud, but relatively speaking, you'd get the same euphoric, loved up high on back to back days, week after week.

This tolerance and "magic" problem seems to be a new thing, which suggests that perhaps the quality of the drug has changed over the years.

 

[bhamster]

Thanks for your reply. I knew it was only a matter of time before the demand for evidence was trotted out. As far as evidence demands go, it's certainly a fair request. One of the challenges with MDMA usage is that there is relatively little published research on the subject, so a general attitude of "prove it otherwise" exists which can be completely independent of the reality on the ground, for or against.

For anecdotal evidence I refer you to Anne Shulgin's experience with regular MDMA use, bluelight.ru, erowoid.org and dancesafe.org. Anecdotal evidence tells us nothing in concrete terms, so I will be researching and in short order posting the literature I have run across that supports that frequent and high dose MDMA usage leads to the set or subset of the phenomenon that is commonly termed "loss of magic". Conservatively speaking, perhaps only people who experience problems with MDMA frequent these websites with those who have no problems never frequenting them is a plausible yet unlikely possibility, so in a world where we must error on the side of conservatism I cede that point to you.

By the way, I think you are completely on track with the statements that eventually and regularly are relative terms. I took MDMA regularly for 10 years before I eventually burned out. What constitutes regularly and eventually are completely subjective to the individual. It would be just as fool hardy for me to say that every individual who uses MDMA on the same basis I did would reach the same conclusion at the same length of time, just as it would be equally foolish to assert that every individual who uses MDMA on your weekly frequency for indefinite periods of time would suffer no ill effects.

I awish for studies that demonstrate, on average, a person can use MDMA weekly for indefinite lengths of time with no deleterious effects experienced as loss of magic. In that case I would become an unfortunate outlier in the data set. In the absence of that evidence we must go on concensus and subjective experience which is that people report a diminishment in the experience and a loss of magic with long-term use, especially abuse - relatively speaking. We both know, or at least I know, what common experiential consensus on safe MDMA usage is at this time.

For what it's worth - I want you to be right. In my perfect world - the majority of MDMA users can use MDMA on a weekly (or daily) basis for an indefinite period, be that decades or score of years, and never suffer any subjective deleterious effects, regardless of real or imagined loss of magic. It would suck for me and anyone else who found that regular, long-term use (relatively speaking) leads to loss of magic to be the exception to the rule, but it would be a great stride for MDMA. Unfortunately, I don't see that message born out in anecdotal experience or both literature for or against MDMA (not to be confused with studies that show MDMA causes no long-term damage).

Stay tuned for links and sources....

I wonder if there will ever be an objective way to measure it? In the same way that some people can use alcohol recreationally every weekend, have a good time and still lead happy, productive lives whilst others become sad 'victims' of the same alcohol; so our reactions and responses to MDMA will vary. Human beings are funny like that. We have complex physiological and psychological systems.

Bottom line, if a person thinks that their use of drugs (or alcohol) is interfering with their quality of life in any way, they should probably consider changing their behavior.

Perhaps those of us who still get "high" on drugs every time we do them do so because we get "high" on life whether drugs are involved or not. When we look exclusively to drugs for the "magic" in life, we will soon become very disappointed. The same is true when we become too dependent on anything.

 

[MasterSplinter]

Bottom line, if a person thinks that their use of drugs (or alcohol) is interfering with their quality of life in any way, they should probably consider changing their behavior.

Loss of Magic is simply the American raver term for Serotonin Down regulation which occurs when ecstasy is abused or used in too frequent a manner.

I dont see what the big problem is in calling it 'loss of magic'. If you dont abuse, you wont lose it.

 

[Bearlove]

Loss of Magic is simply the American raver term for Serotonin Down regulation which occurs when ecstasy is abused or used in too frequent a manner.

I dont see what the big problem is in calling it 'loss of magic'. If you dont abuse, you wont lose it.

There isnt a problem with the term at all - its just 'the magic' means so many different things to so many different people. Im sure that a new user starting out would describe 'the magic' a lot differently than somebody who has been using for 5, 10,20 years etc

So many people also are overly obsessed with the phrase and start using MDMA almost waiting for the 'loss of magic' to happen as if its a sure fire thing.

 

[Bearlove]

Thank you! I was saying something similar in a discussion about tolerance, when people here kept saying that you should space your use out every several months or your tolerance would get too high. In Ireland, we rolled practically every weekend. Often, back to back days (Thurs/Fri/Sat) if pills were plentiful. Sure, sometimes you would get duds, but if the pills were good, you would roll the same every time and feel great. Somehow, today, people who use X think that you should only take 10 pills a year.

I think that the majority of people err on the side of caution - this is a harm reduction website afterall!

So many people think that leaving three months between use is the safest option (and I would agree) but I know for a fact that people use way more often than that with little to no lasting damage/side effects.

Ecstasy use in the UK/Ireland is way different to use in the States where a lot of people view ecstasy as some revered drug to be used sparingly and for special occasions. In the UK/Ireland it’s nothing for people to pop several pills per weekend as its part of the culture.

For people to pretend that ecstasy use is the same regardless of your geographical location is just naive.

Don’t get me wrong here - I’m not and never have said that Ecstasy/MDMA isn’t without its risks or that it isn’t a dangerous drug if abused but things need to be kept in perspective. I’m sure for every self proclaimed ‘etard’ on this site there are a few thousand regular users who have zero side effects.