For growth and healing.

[Phoenix_rising]

For years i used to dabble with psychedelics for recreational purposes,i had many good experiences with friends,but even back then i used to say to those friends that we had "no guidance".

We were truely jumping into the deep end without knowing how to swim,explorers without a map and without the nessecary equipment to find our way through the jungle of the mind,it was like a child riding a bike with no hands.

Of course i found myself in many difficult situations,but i didn`t know how to understand them and what they really meant,i just willed myself through them and felt deeply scarred afterwards.

I know that these days there are Ayahuasca healing retreats that provide an experience that is constructive in a safe manner,there are also San pedro ceremonies,but these practices are all based on native belief systems that really have to be adhered to.

The thing is that these shamanic ways of using plants for healing doesn`t fit with my beliefs.

What i was curious about is,are there any healing retreats that use a western approach to using psychedelics? Somewhere where one could go to gain all the benefits of plant healing in an enviroment that is not spiritual,that doesn`t go down the route of ceremony,but uses a more scientific approach?

Basically i see Shamanism and science on the same par but coming from different angles,but ending up at the same place...I prefer the scientific route.

If anyone knows where i could go in the UK to get such treatment could you PM me or post on the thread.

 

[johannes kreisler]

watch out for older/more experienced psychonauts!
or create your own believe-system! learn to ride the bike!

btw: imo the healing power of those substances is essentially spiritual.

I don't think that what you are looking for exists - but feel free to found it. I'd join in and spread the word over the continent... (actually that is exactly what I'd like to do professionally - in a perfect world. at least in a world that isn't dumb/sick enough to criminalize psychedelics..)

 

[Propyl Power]

these practices are all based on native belief systems that really have to be adhered to.

The thing is that these shamanic ways of using plants for healing doesn`t fit with my beliefs.

What i was curious about is,are there any healing retreats that use a western approach to using psychedelics?

which beliefs exactly must be adhered to? that plants have an intelligence? i consider that more of an 'understanding' than a 'belief'... & i'm afraid you won't make it too far down the plant medicine path if you can't swallow that one... though of course you can still receive significant healing...

the closest thing i can think of would be an ibogaine treatment center... their approach is typically of the medical/scientific style... certainly would not be my preferred context for that experience but hey do what works for you

 

[Phoenix_rising]

Don`t get me wrong i have lots of experience in using psychedelics,but i have never used them for healing purposes or for self development.

If you like i am an aged psychonaut,i understand where your coming from though at being aware of the others.

I have a different view of what spiritualism is,my belief is that it is a personal one that cannot be shared as the only person to walk my path is myself,so for me holding space and ceremonial whistling are really not for me,nor is the idea of being cleansed with sage smoke...I just don`t personally believe these rituals,they don`t work for me and i wish not to pretend that they do by being involved in a Ayahuasca healing ceremony for my own needs.

I believe that there are the approaches to healing that involve psychology,psychotherapy,life coaching and self development that can be used in psychedelic therapy,this is what i mean by western approaches.

I believe that you can gain as much from these methods as you could from donning a poncho,shaking a grass rattle and going through the peruvian medicine wheel.

I`m not a peruvian or a native american,i`m a european and live in a western society,so for me the whole shamanic thing doesn`t appeal.

 

[Splitz]

If you get some 'revelation' when you're tripping... as spiritual as it may seem, it's basically psychology. If you disregard the spiritual aspect of i, might it not work?

If you don't get a spiritual feeling but you're able to analyse yourself in a sciency way... then you can use this, right? I don't know, forgive me I'm very tired and I've realised I don't have the slightest idea what I'm going on about.

 

[Phoenix_rising]

I hear what your saying splitz,i guess you can have revelations whilst tripping,actually i`m sure of it,but if experienced in a set and setting without any kind of supervision by one that knows what they are talking about,then it can get lost,or not utilized in the trip and all the good that could have come from it wasted.

I`m looking for a supervised trip into myself,into my mind to do some constructive soul searching to understand myself,my spirit much better,to clear away the debris from past lives and create a better space in which to inhabit.

I`m trying to better myself,to become a better person through the psychedelic experience,i feel as if the door was half opened many moons ago,that through my use of psychedelics i gained some kind of insight,some kind of knowledge that i haven`t been able to use properly.

I need the right help in achieving my potential.

 

[Phoenix_rising]

At propylpower,i understand that plants have a life,that they are living things from creation and they can be utilised for medicine.When i eat meat i`m eating the vehicle that contained life,the life force that we all understand,but i do not believe that i am consuming the spirit of that animal,just as in the plant.

In eating meat i am gaining sustainance from the nutrients and proteins contained in the meat...Its just how you see it,your beliefs.

To me it is not the masculine and feminine aspects of the Ayahuasca or the spirit of the plant that speaks to me,it is the chemicals called Harmaline and n,n dimethyltryptamine that open up channels in the mind,in the psyche,that awaken the spirit to the experience that is.

As i said before,it is just different ways of percieving it,i don`t have a faith or belief that tells me different from what i know in my reality.

 

[Roger&Me]

I can't really answer your question directly, because I don't know anything about retreats at all.

But I've always found tripping in nature to be very conducive to growth and healing, perhaps a beautiful natural location is a setting that could benefit you.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

IME and IMO the healing benefits from psychedelics are strictly spiritual.

I mean this in that they are not physical, they are all psychological.

Now the thing is, they are mostly all aspects of the spirituality end of the spectrum rather than the scientific evolutionary end of the spectrum....

That is, they are things that make you FEEL better about living, which leads to improved quality of living. They don't actually HEAL anything THEMSELVES...

To take out the spiritual aspect and attempt healing would be like painting your whole house without any paint....

I wish I could clarify better, but I believe that spiritual is commonly misinterpreted as meaning mystical.... where as, it is purely a psychological phenomenon.

Again, this is all IMO based on my experiences

 

[Ismene]

As Lennon said the trip is one thing, what you do with it afterwards is what you do with it afterwards.

I believe in enjoying the trip for those few hours it lasts. That's the magic and the catharsis.

 

[Phoenix_rising]

At hebrew hammer,i get what your trying to express,it can be so hard to describe and understand.

 

[skinwalker]

Phoenix Rising:
I know exactly what your looking for, I for myself have just found what it is and words cannot describe the way I feel about it. Its funny because I was gonna start a thread about what your talking about but you beat me to it.
It all begins within you there is no ceremony you can find that will be of benefit without understanding that noone other than yourself can help you.
I for myself have found insite in shamanism but whatever type of belief system you have you need to let that be your intentions for your journey.
Once you have found it you will know certainly know it, once again words cannot describe it.
I for myself could'nt hold back the tears of happiness to finally understand that I have found what I was looking for. Psychedelic Ecstacy!!!

 

[johannes kreisler]

depends on age/maturity too...

 

[renzokata]

it all depends on you and what you're taking. when i first started taking mescaline, i was not psychicly aware one bit. now i have taken it several times, along with my own spiritual path, my experiance with it has changed drasticly. when i am tripping on mescaline, i am all psychic now. when i do it with others i experiance a oneness that i didn't feel before. i cannot vouch for other psychedelics, never taken lsd, shrooms a couple times, and thats about it. i am already a degree psychic and empathic in my normal life, when i am tripping hard, it is crystal clear. this isn't because i took a drug, it's because of my own spiritual path and my own decision. once you see, there is no reason not to believe in great spirit-you will see it. i've personally carried my ego into trips before with no knowledge and experianced confusion. now when i trip, there is nothing to hold me back.

 

[Big)Sky]

I have mixed emotions on the psychedelics being used for growth and healing. If they are used in a proper setting, and not done in excess like what i have been seeing happening after having a spiritually enlightening experience. For me as well.

After the truly spiritual experience on LSD, i was completely turned onto expanding they psyche and started using psychedelics in excess. At least once a weekend for a good amount of time, being DMT, 2c-i, mushrooms, LSD and i mean ALOT of LSD. I got to the point of complete enlightenment to the point of enlightenment with a shattered ego/personality. I lost who i was, what i stood for, and just lost all my inner knowledge, which caused alot of confusion because 3 months prior i was at such a high standing point with my self and others around me.

I havent done a psychedelic in almost 3 months, and my HPPD as calmed down alot, and my personality and self knowledge has been repaired for the most part.

So basically what im saying is they can be used to heal and speed up the evolutionary process, if not used in excess.

Learn from your experience, and act on the knowledge. If you put your knowledge into contex you will be on a learning path to enlightenment.

 

[Phoenix_rising]

I have had moments whilst under the pschedelic experience that have seemed to be an epiphany,a truely enlightening glance into the true nature of all things,in these moments the ego seemed to have walked out of the door without even a goodbye to leave me naked to my truth.

When this happened i was a child,a teeneger without many of the hangups of adults,the ego was there and growing as i grew,but i was closer to childhood than i was to being an adult in an adult world...In other words i still carried that innocence before being corrupted.

Since becoming an adult my trips became increasingly difficult as i changed to cope with what the world had to throw at me,so i went from having fantastic revelations to falling into the abyss of chaos.

I know what psychedelic therapy can offer in the right situations under the right guidance and it`s nothing short of a miracle.What i`m seeking is help with understanding,finding my way back to the place which i left before all the shit came,to put right the choas that ensued after...The knowledge is already there,it was already awaked many years ago,but it has been buried.

 

[Big)Sky]

Try and not live in the past. Its the fact of growing up. The innocence leaves us and were only left with exactly what we are. The truth being unfolded before us.

Ive been working on focusing on being in the now moment. Not wishing the times were like they were a while ago. Ive also only been tripping when i have something positive to trip on. When everything is absoutly going my way, and theres no underline thoughts that might manifest them selves.

 

[any major dude]

I think i understand what you're getting at OP. I've had some similar questions/thoughts in the past myself.

Personally, i'm an atheist, but i do believe that the experience of the divine is both real & useful, however I don't like tying the experience to a bunch of dogma. I would like to experience some psychedelics in their traditional context, but that's more out of intellectual curiosity than anything else.

Psychedelics can be powerful psychological healing tools, & there's been a fair amount of research into this, and its becoming increasingly frequent as of late :D

I'd recommend reading The Secret Chief Revealed by Myron Stolaroff & LSD Psychotherapy by Stanislov Grof. Both are available at the MAPS Bookstore (hope that doesn't count as sourcing ). Also, if you get them there the money goes to support psychedelic research!

Also, more recent studies have been published regarding using psychedelics to induce mystical experiences & to assuage "terminal anxiety" in cancer or other terminal patients. Reading the methods etc used by these studies would probably prove helpful as well.

 

[any major dude]

I think i understand what you're getting at OP. I've had some similar questions/thoughts in the past myself.

Personally, i'm an atheist, but i do believe that the experience of the divine is both real & useful, however I don't like tying the experience to a bunch of dogma. I would like to experience some psychedelics in their traditional context, but that's more out of intellectual curiosity than anything else.

Psychedelics can be powerful psychological healing tools, & there's been a fair amount of research into this, and its becoming increasingly frequent as of late :D

I'd recommend reading The Secret Chief Revealed by Myron Stolaroff & LSD Psychotherapy by Stanislov Grof. Both are available at the MAPS Bookstore (hope that doesn't count as sourcing ). Also, if you get them there the money goes to support psychedelic research!

Also, more recent studies have been published regarding using psychedelics to induce mystical experiences & to assuage "terminal anxiety" in cancer or other terminal patients. Reading the methods etc used by these studies would probably prove helpful as well.

 

[any major dude]

I think i understand what you're getting at OP. I've had some similar questions/thoughts in the past myself.

Personally, i'm an atheist, but i do believe that the experience of the divine is both real & useful, however I don't like tying the experience to a bunch of dogma. I would like to experience some psychedelics in their traditional context, but that's more out of intellectual curiosity than anything else.

Psychedelics can be powerful psychological healing tools, & there's been a fair amount of research into this, and its becoming increasingly frequent as of late :D

I'd recommend reading The Secret Chief Revealed by Myron Stolaroff & LSD Psychotherapy by Stanislov Grof. Both are available at the MAPS Bookstore (hope that doesn't count as sourcing ). Also, if you get them there the money goes to support psychedelic research!

Also, more recent studies have been published regarding using psychedelics to induce mystical experiences & to assuage "terminal anxiety" in cancer or other terminal patients. Reading the methods etc used by these studies would probably prove helpful as well.