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Fooling the EZ-Test!

Biscuit,
Thanks for the info mate....most useful...I will try and store it somewhere in a still functioning section of my brain. Avoid pills that turn orange with EZ test is the lesson of the day I would say....I don't get em if they test orange anyway...kinda defeats the purpose of getting a pill in the first place!!
Vune,
Yeah man I would like to catch up with ya sometime mate....having a layoff for a month or so tho to replenish seratonin stocks after the recent battering from the orange rolex's!! Keep posting about meetups and events tho and I'll get a big crew up for one.
Later
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OK, I've brought this topic back to the top because of the following piece of soapie action in pillreports:
http://www.pillreports.com/viewpill.php3?sub=-1&area=3&id=3193
Some of the people posting comments are pretty adamant that the proper cKs are nothing but shit, despite a purple/black EZ-Test result, and despite the fact that some of them are quite clean (in my experience the blue cKs of november last year & Orange cKs of June/July this year were mindblowing. The yellow/gold/beige ones seemed to be pretty mongy, though).
Now, I know somebody who names themselves MrKING sounds like somebody who would claim they know the chef when they really don't, but I'm taking this opportunity to see if, somehow, these people are correct.
So, to reiterate Av's original question, is there anything else that reacts with the marquis to create the same reaction as MDxx? I know the official line (it's repeated above enough times), so basically what I'm doing is challenging the official line, because we're all placing a lot of faith in the tests.
Do we really know what we know?
Cheers,
Ben.
 
Im pretty sure the rolexes did not contain PMA they were just a much higher than average dose of MDxx which has vomiting as a common side effect I think its just how different people react to it. I know people who vomit off of just about any strongish pill that comes in and I also know people who never vomit at all.
 
The E-tester contains SIMPLE chemicals.
Sulfuric Acid is whats causes MDXX drugs to go purple/black.
Sulfuric Acid will turn HUNDREDS of chemicals black! Try it with household items.
I said this long ago. People branded pills as a way of quality pills being recognised. The good brands spread by word of mouth. Shonky dealers COPIED the logos on the good pills so people would buy these fakes due to the good name.
NOw however if the E testing phenomenon grows, which it will, these shonky dealers, instead of just copying the logos, may just press pills made of ANY old chemical, not necessarily a drug, e.g sodium iodide, so the pill will turn the tester black.
Think about it; b4 people bought pills due to logo, today more people r buying pills due to TEST RESULT.
I bet if i pressed a whole lot of sodium iodide pills i could flog them off on the instant black test result and the horrid bitter taste, b4 anyone realised how shit they were.
 
OK people, some more info for you all.
As a background, I'm the Technical Director of Chemical Generation. We make a Marquis based tester called 'E: a quick and simple test'. Try it, you may like it! I'm the one with the full chemistry degree and many years of pharmaceutical experience.
PMA - my references (published international scientific journal/papers) show that it doesn't change colour with Marquis reagent. I am sceptical about this, but until I find/see otherwise, that is the best answer I have. They haven’t been wrong thus far, so I’m tempted to believe them.
Marquis reagent reacts with many chemicals to produce a range of colours. It is not selective, and it is not foolproof. As Candyflip (and others) said, many things can colour change purple to black. Codiene is one of them, there are many others. In addition, Marquis reagent doesn’t just detect the MDxx ring! (see below)
The key to accurate testing is to WATCH the colour CHANGES. You should see a blue/purple which then changes to black over a few minutes. Keep you eyes peeled for OTHER colours that may arise in 'bits' of non-homogenous pills. The mechanism is not something I wish to disclose to shonky manufacturers, but basically it's sensitive to elements like oxygen (and others which I chose not to discolse), particularly aromatic/cyclic oxygen. The sulphuric acid degrades the substance down to its basic building blocks, which then react with one of the other components. Various colours representing the whole visible spectrum are given by a large number of compounds. Structures that tend to maintain the response to the reagent at the violet end of the spectrum contain more oxygen. As the ratio of carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen to other groups in the molecule rises, the response moves to longer wavelengths (ie to green, orange and then red).
If you have a mixture of compounds in the pill, the reagent will just react with them all, at once, and the colour change will be based on the total ratio of oxygen to carbon/hydrogen/nitrogen present. There is some scope for some things digesting/reacting faster, and for proximity, but you have to watch very carefully to see that happening. Nothing too selective, nothing fancy, just a total ratio thing. Yes indeed, you will find shonky manufacturers trying to fool Marquis based testers. I can do it with ease, so I'm assuming they can as well.
It is pleasing to see that people are questioning the selectivity of Marquis based testers. It is also very impressive to see that someone has tried just sulphuric acid on MDMA, and got a purple reaction. Yes, indeed, MDxx will turn purple if you have just sulphuric acid present (It's a dehydration mechanism). In fact, sulphuric acid will also give reactions and colours with other chemicals, but not many, and it's not as selective as Marquis reagent so beware! The colour changes are generally quite different to that of Marquis reagent. It's just that for MDxx, the other chemicals in the Marquis Reagent don't contribute to the overall colour change MUCH. You still need them in there to get the benefit of knowing what you have present (ie can refer to published colour charts), and to stabilise it somewhat. For most chemicals, the other main ingredient in the Marquis reagent acts to form conjugated compounds (those with double bonds) that absorb light at specific wavelenghts. Hence the colourful responses.
We have developed a Second Generation tester (Called E2 - Second Defence) that will pick up things that the Marquis Tester doesn't. It will react POSITIVELY to PMA (ie you get a colour change). You could also use a TLC (Thin Layer Chromatography) test, which we are also developing. TLC is a bit time consuming and requires some expertise/practice.
Incidentally - Does anyone really care to know whether they’re getting MDA, MDMA, or MDEA? I’d have thought people would be generally happy to get any one of them, and not care to distinguish. Correct me if I’m wrong!
Anyone with access to something they think might be PMA, get in contact with Chemical Generation (or my good friend Candyflip at The-Peak.com.au)) and try our new tester! We’re happy to help those mad little scientists out there to develop further products!
Any further questions, roll them out. At Chemical Generation, we KNOW about the Marquis reagent, are qualified to understand chemistry, and CAN answer many questions related to the use of this product. We are also keen to solve your specific problems wrt purity/identity.
B.
Chemical Generation - Life is about making informed decisions!
 
Wow! interesting stuff... might have to look a bit more closely next time i test.
and on your MDA, MDMA, MDEA point... I'd like to know that im getting MDMA rather than MDA or MDEA... IMO
 
Great post B from the Chemical Generation - & all too true "Life IS about making informed decisions".
Now while the various testers on the market might not be fool proof they are the best mechanism we have at our disposal to give us a better than even chance of getting a decent pill and avoiding some really dangerous stuff.
I tested quite a few pills on the weekend (see pill reports) and what amazed me was the amount of crap out there - the tester saved me a lot of money and potentially personal injury and allowed me to finally zero in on a decent pill, which we had on Sunday at Hemispheres and, in line with the test result, it was exceptional.
The best thing people can do at present is to (a) get a tester and then (b)test everything they get. This has a number of beneficial effects. It sends a message to the shonks that we are after quality pills and will do our best to ensure we get them, it also deepens the market for testers and the interest and associated money that flows from this then enables the likes of the Chemical Generation to test and develop ever better testers to keep a few steps ahead of the charlatans.
I reiterate - while the testers on the market aren't fool proof they are the best mechanism we have at present that gives us a better than even chance of getting a decent pill - if you know anything about gambling or game theory anything that increases your odds of success is worthwhile - so EVERYONE PLEASE get one - for $20 its a great investment.
Oh & by the way this is an independent plug - I don't work for or know anyone at Chemical Generation
Cheers DC
 
Not that it needs a second, but I know that the tester saved me form a really unfortunate ride.
A "friend" decided not to believe the tester, and rather decided to go on ill informed beliefs(ie "dealer told me") and decided to double drop a pill which had apparently tested for 2cb - something which doesn't go down to well with me!
He was in a seriously unhappy place for quite some time apparently, where as I stuck with black and ended up blissfully high on MDMA powder~
 
Upon many an hour of research in "drug circles" on the web, i had found that the resulting colour change for MDMA, MDEA and MDA to purple/blue/black was because of its most important precursor....safrole.
Anyone's "educated" thought on this as no one here seems to have touched on this.
Prove me wrong....
------------------
You know the drill,
Slam down that pill!
 
hey guys
been reading the thread very intensly andits the best thread i've seen on bl for a while. theres just one request i have - can ppl please reference their information. i know us less educated ppl would really like to be able to see the sources of the information and its more convincing of we know that the sources are NOT www.dodgydealer.com or www.fbi-propaganda.gov.us
thanx guys once again for the intelligent thread
 
i'm moving a copy of this over to the pill testing forum.
chem gen: good to see you on the net. hope you can help us out with these problems and more...
 
Glad to see that everyone is reading/responding, and most importantly THINKING and QUESTIONNING.
With regards to Ketamine, no tests developed yet. I will be working on that soon. Some others we are working on should also help everyone get better informed about their party supplies!
E2 is not selling as an independant entity yet. We are currently developing a marketing strategy, which will probably involve several steps. Firstly handing a few out to test the market and gather feedback. Volunteers welcome to contact us, but please be aware that we're looking for people with a particular pill/compound available, that we may be able to help identify using E2. It's not a 'who wants one' grab at this stage!
Marquis reagent and E2 are definitely the best things to happen to the scene in a long time. And a bargain at AUD20 (+GST). We will always need to work hard to keep one step ahead of those that would otherwise try to rip us off or make us sick, whilst profiting hugely. It then becomes necessary for YOU to let people like ME know what THEY are doing, so that we can find a way to counteract it.
As for Saffrole and other precursors (starting materials) such as piperonal, used for MDMA synthesis, it should be no surprise that they give similar reactions with Marquis reagent, as they ARE very similar to MDMA! Again, the reagent is not selective, and if it's structurally similar it will give a similar result. On the other hand, because it is NOT selective, things that are NOT structurally similar can also give similar results. Hence the need to develop more discriminating tests.
I regret that I can't inform you all of the scientific literature references that I use for Marquis and other testers. This is primarily due to me wanting to avoid any unscrupulous manufacturers from learing what other chemicals thay could use to get the blue/purple/black response. Sory folks, as a scientist I know that you have to base your reputation on facts and literature, without which you are just making unfounded/unsubstantiated claims. Unfortunately, with the scene and the audience the way it is, I feel that it would be detrimental to us all. Your understanding in this matter would be greatly appreciated!
To give you some insight into the chemistry behind my call on the PMA colour:
The issue of PMA not responding positively to Marquis is interesting (well, I thought so!). Remember above that I spoke of the Marquis reagents response moving to the red end of the visible spectrum as the ratio of Carbon/Hydrogen to Oxygen rises. Remember also that Speed is at the red end of the spectrum, which is also what I will call the 'weak' end of the spectrum. ie: Not much around to cause a colour reaction. Note that PMA is fairly similar in structure to Speed, so it is also, at best, going to be at the weak end of the spectrum. Now consider that there's no methyl group on the nitrogen for PMA (METhamphetmamine is Speed, para-methoxyamphetamine is PMA), and that the methoxy group is on the opposite site of the aromatic ring, and relatively easily cleaved off with concentrated sulphuric acid. From all of this chemistry I summise it's not likely to give a strong reaction to Marquis, if at all. My references say it doesn't react except to give effecvescence, which is interesting in itself. Effervescence in a pill can be due to the sulphuric acid reacting with calcium carbonate to give carbon dioxide gas. People also press pills with magnesium oxide, which doesn't do that gas prodcution thing, so it's hard to draw a conclusion about that side of it.
Anhow, rambled enough. Onwards and upwards.
B.
Chemical Generation
 
There are a few topics in the HIVE that i stumbled across where people are debating what each colour represents, ie. MDA, MDMA and MDEA for our particular interest.
This person stated things like temp and age of marquis solution including the methanol based one which i think the ez-tester is.
Plus an interesting point i read was how someone had said that whether any MDxx product had shown up ie. blue, purple or black, they will all go black eventually after 30sec to a minute anyway. And that maybe the deciding factor is really in the first ten seconds to distinguish what you REALLY have.
BTW. Ketamine and PMA will not change colour on those testers..fact.
[This message has been edited by sleeper (edited 13 September 2000).]
 
i am definitely interested in a tester being able to discriminate between MDMA MDEA & MDA.
all these chemicals have different positive/negative effects (to my understanding) and i would love to be able to use them all independently from each other and choose for myself which i like. i'm sure they all have their moments and would each b good in different environments.
keep this thread going ppl. quality.
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chem gen. feel free to come around more often.
tony
 
This is being debated, quite well, in the Pill Testing forum, which is probably the best place for it. No sense in having the same thread duplicated, in case good arguments come up in each. All following replies to the Pill Testing forum copy please.
BigTrancer
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