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Flight MH17 - What happened?

Kiev as the semi-functioning government has the responsibility of following due process to bring conclusions to this investigation. Russian rebels do not, and are not, following any sort of process and have no fear of reprisals from the international community. That's the difference. It doesn't really matter how the Ukranian government has approached the war, this is not about Ukraine vs the separatists, it's not even a war, it's civilians of multiple nationalities who have been murdered and it's the families of the victims who need to understand why this tragedy happened for their own closure. Forget the war for a second. There's a choice here if a ceasefire is brokered, it can either be led by Kiev, with assistance of governments, experts and suitable technology, who can present their findings to independent bodies which will help avoid a repeat of this and maybe, just maybe, help towards a resolution in Ukraine, or it can continue to be left with an amateur militia and locals who have so far managed to fail to deal with the bodies in an acceptable timeframe and have let anyone on the scene loot through possessions.

Governments around the world are responsible for great tragedies but in times of accident resolution, functioning governments are more efficient and open to peer review than a bunch of lads with AK47s.

Anyway, we're going round in circles aren't we? Let's await what the next few days hold, hopefully progress is made for the families of the victims.
 
Ah, I see. No worries. :)

I can't fathom how all this anger is being directed at Putin, when Putin point blank refused to offer military aid to the separatists after they held their referendum.

Of course, there's every likelihood that they are receiving assistance from individual Russians, but if so, why is the West continuing to point the finger at Putin and not attempting to negotiate with the rebels and actually accomplish something?

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian avation inspection team who were reportedly granted access to the site on Friday...
The Guardian said:
A small group of aviation inspectors from Kiev were allowed free access to the site.
Click to expand...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-found-as-anger-at-russia-mounts-live-updates

... appears to have vanished.
 
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mydrugbuddy said:
In the documetary i saw about that operation it stated that the helicopter crash landed from a low height (20 feet iirc) at the very start of the mission, (the helicopter was fucked and unusable and they had to leave it behind, but no one was injured), thus immediatley throwing Plan A into dissaray, and Plan B had to be implemented immediatley (calling in the backup team) as the first team would have had to means of getting out of there after the mission otherwise.
Click to expand...

I am not referring to the chopper that crashed onto the wall during the raid on Bin Ladens compound in May 2011.

I am referring to the chopper that was lost in Afghanistan on August 6th of the same year in which 30 Americans died including almost the entire SEAL Team 6 that had been publically congratulated by the President for their take-down of Bin Laden only a short time beforehand. Apparently, the chopper was brought down by an RPG & apparently the Taliban targetted Bin Ladens killers deliberately. Quite plausible, the incident was I think the single greatest American loss of the Afghan war.

I guess if you wanted to offer an alternative possibility it might be that Team 6 was in fact spirited into the Witness Protection programme or some other such thing, & their deaths faked to prevent them being sought by Jihadist Bin Laden fans for the rest of their lives. Or you might say that the teams ID was outed deliberately by the Obama admin for some reason, as the extreme right in the US seem to think. Either way, the whole things smells of cover-up to me. What exactly was/is being covered up I couldn't day, but it smells alright.

One current and one former U.S. official said that the dead included 25 Navy SEALs from SEAL Team Six, the unit that carried out the raid in Pakistan in May that killed bin Laden. They were being flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified.
Click to expand...

from - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/06/afghan-president-31-americans-killed-in-helicopter-crash/

Still, this is well off the present topic so lets leave it here & continure working on this equally bizarre string of mysterious Malaysian Airlines disappearances/crashes. These two incidences are probably completely unrelated, the two planes, but the present state of world affairs, Russia/Ukrain, Israel/Gaza etc etc does draw suspicious types such as myself & many others into the arena of conspiracy theory. It could be just a shitty, lousy bit of luck for Malaysian Airlines & nothing more.
 
I read an article on the Guardian app basically listing evidence that Russia was involved..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...vidence-pro-russia-separatists-responsibility

He said the US knew that in the last month there had been a "major flow of arms and weapons from Russia to the eastern part of Ukraine and turned over to the separatists".

Kerry said social media reports and US surveillance put the missile system in question in the vicinity of the crash before the tragedy.

"We know because we observed it by imagery that at the moment of the shootdown we detected a launch from that area," he said. "Our trajectory shows that it went to the aircraft.

"We also know to a certainty that social media immediately afterwards saw reports of separatists bragging about knocking down a plane and then the so-called defence minister of Donetsk, Igor Strelkov, posted a report bragging about the shoot-down of a transport plane."

The case against the separatists was further backed by evidence from voice intercepts and a video of a launcher moving back into Russia with at least one missing missile, said Kerry.
Click to expand...

On the app it had quotes from the social media posts and the intercepted phone call but they don't seem to be in this article.
 
Perhaps because of the doubt surrounding the authenticity of the phone call recordings and the value of the social media posts as 'evidence'? The same applies to the 'damning' footage of the missile launchers

What about the air traffic controller who mentioned the two fighter jets shadowing the airliner, and seems to have 'disappeared' along with his Twitter page? Or the fact that the air traffic control transcripts haven't been released, as you would expect in these circumstances? And how come (despite Kerry's claims) there was no vapour trail that would be considered characteristic of the type of missile that was allegedly used?

Here's a BUK-M2 in action - notice the trail:

https://www.youtube.com/v/DDXScnEKaP0

And here's the immediate aftermath of the plane hitting the ground:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQXaCqLOnTo

And again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZqSneUvRY

Peculiar, don't you think?
 
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Damn good find. Looks extremely weird.

Regarding the background noise, there's the following witness statement from an 'Aleksandr':

saw a spinning plane without a wing with something falling out of it. The plane was shot down ... There were explosions in the sky. And apart from the loud sounds of the plane itself, I heard the buzz which fighter jets make.
Click to expand...


Although the only source I can find for this is RT ( :D ), so it probably figures. Certainly chimes with that video footage though.
 
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Why would the Ukrainians shoot down a passenger plane, though? They must have known it was a passenger plane if they were going after it was jets..

And no other witnesses to jets?
 
rickolasnice said:
There's not much evidence of anything in this video (Warning - Video makes you feel weird (you actually see the plane crash))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRDWxZXoA9k
Click to expand...

That is not MH17...

Eye witnesses describe debris falling plus the wing was found relatively intact, which it wouldn't have been in the above scenario.

I think you'll find that is a plane crashing after take off because it doesn't have enough power to its engines. Look at the way it appears in the video... going up. It even has its landing gear out...

Plus that plane has 4 engines & MH17, a 777 has 2 engines. :D

^ That video is a 747 taking off in Bagram, Afghanistan, which killed 7 people when it stalled. National Airlines Flight 102 on 29 April 2013 to be precise.
 
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Here's where I found the statement from 'Aleksandr', anyhow. It's a pretty innocuous article, but of course it's RT. Make of it what you will:

http://rt.com/news/174020-ukraine-malaysian-plane-area/

The most far-out suggestion I've read was that some (or all) of the passengers were dead prior to the crash - apparently the stench of decomposition was pretty strong immediately after the crash. Not bothering to link to those sources though, as I think it's just a little far-fetched. :D

EDIT: Looks like the Ukrainian military are storming Donetsk right this second. Seems Yatsenyuk is pretty fucking determined.
 
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