Opioids First time going through this... help please?

[wintastical]

I've been on nearly a year long opiate "high," and decided on Saturday it was time to quit after a few incidents of not breathing in my sleep.

On a normal day I'd go through 240 mg of morphine orally (the ABG 60 MS Contins), if those aren't available then 120-150 mg of Oxycodone, and towards the end I'd just wear 75 mcg/hr patches.

Saturday morning I had my last 80 mg of Oxy, and got really drunk that night to distract myself from it. Sunday I woke up and it was the worst feeling ever. I was freezing, my whole body ached (mainly right above the knees and top of the legs), I couldn't eat anything, and couldn't even go to work and do the same thing I've been doing for 5 years. I had to leave after an hour and a half of being there. Went home, laid in bed to try to "sleep it off," and 21 hours later woke up to find out I still felt just as shitty. I fought through it until about 6 pm when I decided I needed some relief and bought a bunch of 8 mg Subutex from a friend. Two of those a day have me feeling okay and functioning, but I don't know what to do from here. I can only assume the same thing will happen when I stop taking the subs.

How do you get through the withdrawals? I don't have access to a lot of the prescription medicines I see people listing on here, what OTC medicines have you found help you feel better? Do I just lay in bed for a week or two until I stop wanting to blow my brains out? I have no idea how this works.

I've read about this happening to people hundreds of times and always thought it was an exaggeration or they just really wanted to get high, because in the past when I've stopped it was nowhere near as bad as this. I went to my doctor this morning and asked for help, she gave me a super inspirational speech that had me tearing up, then told me she had to figure out the right path to take before she could refer me anywhere, and scheduled me to come in two weeks from now.

Any help or advice at all would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the disorganized and rambling post, still getting used to the feeling.

 

[tacodude]

The medical system really doesn't help at all.... You will be pretty much better in two weeks time if you can handle cold turkey. The only other option is addiction treatment for ORT with methadone or subs.... Or kratom, but I highly suggest that I just mention it being desperate enough to deal with W/D from medical prescribed opiates for diagnosed pain I was cut off as my Dr. retired and I was told I can't get more meds as it is not cancer pain and while I was told to go to addiction treatment I was refused service due to my dependcy relating to medication for a diagnosed pain issue. Just get through it and I recommend weening off via self medicating with sought out opiates, but if you do it do not get down on yourself. Just get up and try moving again.

 

[wintastical]

Thanks man, that's what I'm trying to do with Subutex. I figure 16 mg a day is a nice small and easy number to work with and ween myself off of it. My first thought was to just tough it out and stay positive but that turned out to be way harder than expected by day two

 

[crzydiamond]

16 mg of subutex is a very high dose

Sub lasts up to 3 days in the body. if you are trying to use them to detox there are two main ways.

One is a mega dose (like the 16 mg you took) one time and then just don't take any more and let it wear off

The other is start at 8 mg the first day. Then 4 mg the second , 2 mg the 3rd, 1 mg the 4th, skip day 5, and take 1 mg day 6 if needed. (There are versions of this that do 4 mg every 8 hours then every 12 then cut to once a day with 4, a day at 2 then jump)

You do NOT want to be taking 16 mg daily unless you plan on staying on them for maintenance. Otherwise use them for no more than a week

 

[Cliffy78]

Yup dude 16mg is waaaaaaay too much brother. Your gonna make quitting very difficult if u continue at that dose. That would cover a 2-3 bundle a day dope habit with a few mg to spare probably lol. You'd get the same coverage from 4mg probably. If u wanna quit dude I'd do a quick taper off the subs like crazy diamond explained or go back to a regular opiate like morphine or oxy and taper with those. They have a much shorter half life and are not nearly as strong as subs. Personally I would taper off of morphine instead of subs. With subs you'll be sick for weeks vs with morphine if u cold turkied you'd only be sick for about 5 days and much less painful than coming off subs. Whatever u decide u have to cut down that sub dose bro or it's gonna hurt baaaad. If u wanna find your true correct sub dose then don't dose again til u start feeling pretty sick(restless legs, hot/cold sweats , runny nose ect)then dose 2mg and wait about an hr and if ur still sick then dose another 2mg and so on until u feel normal and that's what u need.remember for most people subs aren't gonna get u high, they'll just make u. "Well". I wish u luck man it's a tough road but congrats on deciding to kick...

 

[Kittycat5]

If you have a week or two where you have no obligations "laying in bed" isnt a bad idea. I dont really mean just lay there a stew, but most start feeling much better in a couple of weeks so it great if you can do this without any obligations to work, school, family etc.

Sleep as much as you can. Many find sleeping next to impossible, but it helps pass large chunks of time without worrying about withdrawal symptoms. Try to eat a good diet, but really eat whatever you can stomach or makes you feel better. Stay hydrated and perhaps even supplement with vitamins.

Some exercise is usually beneficial. Go as hard as you can, whether that is a brief walk up the street or a full own training session. Helps the body to feel rewarded without the use of drugs.

Surround yourself with the people and things you love. Reading your favorite book or playing your favorite video games is a good distraction and brings a bit of joy to this shitty time. Try to avoid all people who either will criticize or not understand what you are going through. They will drive you crazy which could lead to temptation.

And the above posters are right. Thats way too high a dose of Suboxone.. I wouldnt go higher than 8mg a day (4 or 6 would be my real recommendation) and taper as was shown above.

 

[wintastical]

I didn't realize 16mg was a large dose, that's the standard for most of my friends. I'm glad you guys mentioned that.

Normally I'd be able to take a week or 2 off of work but I'm in a weird situation with work right now. I feel like a horrible person when I try the cold turkey thing and lay in bed all day with kids running around.

I'll cut the Subutex dose to 8mg tomorrow, would it be best to just take the whole 8 in the morning and ride it out for 24 hours, or cut it in half and have 4 every 12? Also, do I really have to cut it down to nothing within a week? That sounds extremely difficult, but seeing as how I have no prior experience with this I trust the majority opinion of bluelight

 

[wintastical]

Also this is gonna sound stupid but the reason I don't taper off with morphine or oxy is because I swore them off. I know how I am and know that after the first dose I'd fall back in and laugh at this whole quitting thing

 

[Zerwas]

I didn't realize 16mg was a large dose, that's the standard for most of my friends. I'm glad you guys mentioned that.

It is often very overprescribed...at your tolerance 8mg should be more than enough since it is equal to about 400mg(!) of Morphine...depending on the Equivalency table you are referring to.
(Some say 1mg Bupre= 30mg Morph, some say 1mg Bupre = 50mg Morph...)
Buprenorphine is ridiculously strong in non tolerant persons, so that 0,5mg would cause nausea, puking and such.
So with 16mg you were just raising your tolerance massively.

You could definitely go by with only 4mg (~=200mg Morphine).

And it is not stupid Bupre is a partial agonist and very good for tapering. You will have no big problems to taper down to 4mg. After that it gets a little bit more difficult.
Good luck dude and next time do more research before you take such massive doses (over 4 times the Equivalent of your former Morph and Oxy doses, so basically a major step back)

 

[manboychef]

zerwas is correct. Sub is massively overprescribed especially in the united states. The two times I went on subs 16mg was the dose, and all it did was raise my tolerance. However, I always went right back to using every time I kicked because I did none of the real work that is required to stop opiates.

Win. You should do a fast taper, however beating the physical dependence is only part of the problem. Addiction changes you. It changes the way the reward center works in your brain. It changes the stress response you have to stressors in your life. The real hard part of stopping the use of opiates comes after you have beaten the withdrawals and have to figure out what to do with yourself.

How long were you using for? Did you start with opiates, or was it a gradual road through other chemicals to get there?

 

[wolf1965]

Hey Yall, Im a 12 yr pain management w/ fent.and perk 30 ,I got sick of the whole $hit racket ,pulled that patch off last friday. God Knows I Hurting So fin Bad ...No serious withdrawal symptoms up to 900 gabapentin,0 nausea diarrhea,only took 1a total of 6 mg of loperamide in 6 days.. Melatonin sleep aid and for anxiety 2 at a time. Zofran 0.4 mg as needed If I felt a bubble, I took 1 was takin muscle relaxer 4 mg Tizanidine Ok yall Heres the kicker ,I've been taking 300 mg a day of tramadol for the first time in my life sometimes.Now understand this Ive taken every other kind of opiate pain medication at first injectable mepergan. If you truly know,Tell me when to stop each meds Ill know what will come probably some ,so I can take it ! THANK AND BEST TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS STRUGGLING WITH THESE DEMONIC $HIT ,but at the time she was beautiful liar....Love and Peace,Wolf Singleton


"I destroy homes, tear families apart - take your children, and that's just the start.
I'm more costly than diamonds, more costly than gold - the sorrow I bring is a sight to behold.
And if you need me, remember I'm easily found.
I live all around you, in schools and in town.
I live with the rich, I live with the poor, I live down the street, and maybe next door.
My power is awesome - try me you'll see.
But if you do, you may never break free.
Just try me once and I might let you go, but try me twice, and I'll own your soul.
When I possess you, you'll steal and you'll lie.
You'll do what you have to just to get high.
The crimes you'll commit, for my narcotic charms, will be worth the pleasure you'll feel in your arms.
You'll lie to your mother; you'll steal from your dad.
When you see their tears, you should feel sad.
But you'll forget your morals and how you were raised.
I'll be your conscience, I'll teach you my ways.
I take kids from parents, and parents from kids, I turn people from God, and separate from friends.
I'll take everything from you, your looks and your pride, I'll be with you always, right by your side.
You'll give up everything - your family, your home, your friends, your money, then you'll be alone.
I'll take and I'll take, till you have nothing more to give.
When I'm finished with you you'll be lucky to live.
If you try me be warned this is no game.
If given the chance, I'll drive you insane.
I'll ravish your body, I'll control your mind.
I'll own you completely; your soul will be mine.
The nightmares I'll give you while lying in bed.
The voices you'll hear from inside your head.
The sweats, the shakes, the visions you'll see.
I want you to know, these are all gifts from me.
But then it's too late, and you'll know in your heart, that you are mine, and we shall not part.
You'll regret that you tried me, they always do.
But you came to me, not I to you.
You knew this would happen.
Many times you were told, but you challenged my power, and chose to be bold.
You could have said no, and just walked away.
If you could live that day over, now what would you say?
I'll be your master; you will be my slave.
I'll even go with you, when you go to your grave.
Now that you have met me, what will you do?
Will you try me or not?
Its all up to you.
I can bring you more misery than words can tell.
Come take my hand, let me lead you to hell."
Signed
DRUGS

 

[crzydiamond]

It's not that you "have" to get off within a week. It's just that, believe it or not, it is easier to use the sub in a very short term taper like I mentioned

When you take it for longer periods it builds up, and sub has such a longer half life, more so than traditional full agonist opiates that then if you keep taking sub you are dealing with getting off sub over an extended period of time. It's best to use it to make your wd symptoms little to none (like a cushion), allowing the full agonist to leave your body (normally 3-5 days), and then let the sub slowly leave your body (which it does on its own due to the half life)

Unless of course a person wants on maintenance. Then you want the sub to build up to keep a level in your body. But for taper purposes you just want to use it so you are not suffering the wd while the full agonist leaves your body, then stop.

I mean, you could draw it out a day or two, say you don't want to stop at 2 mg, take like 1 the next day, skip a day and maybe take 1 mg the following then stop. But any more than that you are basically then making your body sub dependent and those wd are longer than the original ones

Most detoxes will dose you once you are in wd, then dose you on a schedule like I mentioned for the next 4-5 days then stop and let the last dose of sub trickle down over the last 2-3 days. By which point you are off the original drug but not yet sub dependent

I know it sounds "quick" , but one dose of sub lasts up to 3 days in the body, so you have to be cautious

And yes, agreeing with above posters, many people take far more than they need and give themselves hell to pay when it's time to get off. That's actually what prompted me to respond to you, cause you said you were inexperienced with getting off and you were on a "low" dose of 16 mg...just wanted to educate you before you completely jacked up your tolerance

 

[wintastical]

I don't have time for a long post this morning as I'm scrambling to get ready for work. I took 4 mg this morning, and am keeping the other half on me just in case (it's gonna be a long day)

I'll type a fuller post when I get home tonight. As always thank you for all the helpful information

Also manboychef it started with opiates after a nnon-union humerus fracture along with 5 other broken bones from an accident. I've messed around with other stuff but never as seriously. & this time it lasted about a year

 

[pbuilder]

Quick 7 day sub taper is a decent idea, you may also want to check out kratom for a bit of a longer taper with a less potent opiate maintenance tool.

 

[OntarioGuy]

for OTC Id use Loperamide, Dextromethorphan, and Poppy seed tea. all of those should be easily available to you. but since u got bupe u might as well use that....and beware, using lope and poppy seeds then going back to bupe will still cause precipitated withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Cliffy78]

U don't have to bring the sub down to nothing in a week bro, if u really wanna get it over with ASAP then yes get it over with but u can do it a number of different ways. It's up to u and depends on what goal u wanna set for urself. No matter what there's gonna be some pain but I think u know that. Try something like 8 mg to start and then down to 6 mg for 5 days, then 4 mg for 5 days then 3x5 then 2 etc. Since that's about the half life of it it should be a little less painful for u IMO. It's really up to u and whr ur ur comfortable with. The shit is psychological too so don't forget that.

 

[pbuilder]

U don't have to bring the sub down to nothing in a week bro, if u really wanna get it over with ASAP then yes get it over with but u can do it a number of different ways. It's up to u and depends on what goal u wanna set for urself. No matter what there's gonna be some pain but I think u know that. Try something like 8 mg to start and then down to 6 mg for 5 days, then 4 mg for 5 days then 3x5 then 2 etc. Since that's about the half life of it it should be a little less painful for u IMO. It's really up to u and whr ur ur comfortable with. The shit is psychological too so don't forget that.

With the potency and half life of sub, with a taper like that you'll end up hooked on subutex i'd think.

 

[FoReaLL]

she will get back to you in 2 weeks!!! wow id be kinda pissed. I typically feel physically better after day 4 and can start doing things like hitting the gym, tan (dont judge, it also releases seratonin) anything that can make me feel better about myself. Its good you can sleep, thats always been a HUGE problem for me, i usually dont sleep week 1 without a benzo and by halfway through week 2 otc sleepaid start to kinda work. Your almost out of the woods, you can do this!

Here is a copy of a post i made regarding my WD regiment and what helped me as i couldnt take off work either.

These are the things that worked for me when coming off of an every other day perc dose of 360 mg. Noting that the day after i feel fine and symptoms start on the second day.

Immodium (freaking crucial)- i take at least 8 mg to control diarhea, to me one of the worst symptoms. Its pretty debated but ive also loaded up on immodium and it eliminated almost all withdrawals completely. For me i didnt need as much as alot of ppl say. i took 20mg whenever id start feeling blah. Make sure to taper down gradually, ive read of people getting addicted to it and that just blows my mind.

Weed - if you got it is a great sleep aid. the other horrible symptom. I didnt sleep more then an hour a nite for the first week. Otc stuff didnt help, sometimes benzos only wld put me under for a couple hours.

Benzos - use sparingly when u feel u cant take another sleepless night. Ive heaard opiate withdrawal isnt shit compared to benzo withdrawal.

Amphetamines - I stumbled on this one accidentally. it was my first time trying adderall the day after my last op dose. the first time was the only really euphoric dose but i took 30mg every 6-8 hours i had about 5 pills on 30mg IR. I was up for like 4 days which def isnt great for you but honestly i wouldnt have slept anyway. I never though about any WD and time flew. I was engrossed in everything i did and the mental part of the WD was just not even an issue. I would only recommend taking amps to get through the acute WDs. i stopped after the 4 days. I usually feel alot better physically after day 4. keep taking the immodium though cuz ive heard stims can give u diarhea as well..

Methadone - if you can get it take about half the dose that you would take in oxy or w/e. Just once. this will keep you good for 4-5 days then for me then light symptoms started but nowhere near what it was normally.

 

[wintastical]

I tried 4 mg today and it went well. I was a little disoriented at work but surprisingly was functioning just as well as I was with the 2x 8 mg doses. I'll cut it down to 3 tomorrow and continue the week long sub taper. I was kinda skeptical but you guys haven't been wrong yet.

I've tried kratom in the past and I'm not a huge fan. Not for withdrawals, but I was brewing 10-15g into a tea 3 or 4 times a day and it had little to no effects.

I managed to get Monday-Wednesday off next week, so this should be doable.

You guys are awesome

 

[crzydiamond]

Glad to hear it's going well for you . You can do this! Just think, this time next week you won't have that ball and chain attached anymore...

Keep busy on those off days, at least mentally...do something that interests you to occupy your mind. Just so you don't start obsessing or focusing on every little creak your body makes or every ache and pain....

You got this!