First Day of Suboxone Use.

[GoldenLovely]

Hey all. Its been a while since I've posted here. Maybe some of you remember me, probably most dont. Ive been addictred to opiates for several years. My DOCs have been poppy pod-tea and tramadol. I first tried tramadol to get me through the WDs when I ran out of pods when that shortage started a few years back. Then when I was able to get pods again, I found that Tram and pods together made me feel the most stable. When I couldn't get either or was trying to kick, I'd switch to Kratom which for me, was only a very mild help at best.

I know pods have been really hard to come by, but I managed to find a pretty reliable source which kept me going for a while and also a source for Tram, so for the last few years, I was fairly stable using the two. But we all know shit happens, and the reliable source was a little less reliable and I found myself once again with less than I needed. So back I went into the WDs. I ran completely out of tram and had enough pods to just barely get me out of WDs for a little while, then right back in again. Oh the fun, anxiety, pain, more anxiety, depression, some more anxiety, restless leg syndrome...and well I'm sure you all know the rest.

A few years ago I'd called a Suboxone doctor, but for whatever reason, never went. But now, feeling like this, I wanted to try being under a doctor's care. I was just so sick of feeling awful and trying to self medicate. So after all this time I finally managed to get my but to a sub doctor...told him my whole story. He's never heard of anyone that actually uses pods as their DOC. I guess these days we're a dying breed, no pun intended, but I think years ago, when you could buy them in every craft store and on ebay, it was probably different story.
Oh BTW, funny story. He had a medical student that was learning about opiate addiction and he asked her what the difference is between opiates and opioids. I said "I know!" OK, maybe that was a "guess you had to be there type of funny" but he laughed, especially since the med student wasn't quite sure.

So anyway, long story..not quite as long...I got my first dose a few hours ago and right now....I feel normal to pretty good. That's a feeling I haven't felt in a while. No euphoria, no depression, no pain, no anxiety....just like I imagine normal, happy, optimistic people feel. But I know the first time for everything always seems to be best...then reality comes crashing down.

One reality I already realize, these things are going to be expensive. I have no insurance and that 50 dollar a month coupon ts ,only goes so far, but if I could afford the addiction, I guess I can afford the treatment.

I was worried about my restless leg syndrome coming back. I had it really bad even before I started opiates. It was kind of that search for something that would ease RLS that lead me down the opiate path to begin with. It wasn't the only reason, but it was one of them.
I know RLS is also a symptom of WDs and I of course get it terribly when I go into them, but since i had it pre addiction, I had a fear that when the suboxone took the rest of the withdrawals away, I would still get the restless leg syndrome. My thinking was that subs are just supposed to make you feel normal, and my "normal" un-drugged state is RLS so bad ,it feels like someone is zapping electricity through my body. Right now though, the subs ARE holding it at bay. So I am very grateful for that.
I know it sounds like such a minor thing, but I tell you its worse than most pain..Its agonizing. So I am very, very glad it has not returned and I hope and pray it stays away.

I mentioned to the doctor that the two things I was worried about was the RLS and that I have insomnia. The doctor tells me to take benadryl for the insomnia. The main ingredient in benadryl is diphenhydramine. Diphenhydramine makes RLS like 4 times worse! Something I found out one night years ago when I tried to take Tylenol PM. Kind of annoys me that the doctor didn't know that. But I guess that they can't know everything. Then he recommended Melatonin. So I'll do some reading about that if I have trouble sleeping. Has anyone else every taken Melatonin and what do you think of it?
I think my main trouble sleeping is that like my father, I'm just a night person, trying to live a day person's life.

So to wrap it up, anyone out there who is a veteran of suboxone treatment, I'd really like to hear your stories and if you could give me some idea what I might be in for. Thanks!

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I've been the Suboxone route. I was started on 32mg's from 80(actually 120, I just neglected to mention that to the doc)mg's of methadone. Overall the experience was positive. I didn't suffer any withdrawals though I was drinking and using coke at the time which makes me insane so I can't comment on the mental aspect with complete authority but I think it smoothed out what it could in that department. My biggest problem with withdrawals is the RLS. I don't get the stomach issues as much but the insomnia, aches and above all the eventual fantasies of cutting off your legs to get relief from that hollow, aching feeling. I'm going through that right now in fact. I'm 23 days since my last dose of methadone or anything but the weekly 4 pack of Mickey's or High Life to facilitate sleep. The leg thing hasn't gone away yet, nor the insomnia I'm worried I might have permanently fucked myself. Enough about me I just needed to vent a bit. Anyway, back to Suboxone. It's a really good maintenance drug. I cut out the other stuff and found it really evened me out. A word of advice, this is pretty basic and I knew it but tried it anyway, 32mg's is the ceiling dose. Being a good junkie I was going to will myself to defy chemistry. So over a day I took an additional 15 8mg's to no avail. So around 80 bucks wasted and I was behind so I had to cut down a bit. Repeat this experiment with trying to get high on extracurricular opiates. Another $100 wasted. On the previous note I was eventually forced via financial hardship to give up my script. The $400 doctor visit every 3 months and 6 bucks a pill (I don't know if it's still this price but I switched from Walgreens to CVS and saved 2 bucks a pill so shop around buddy) weren't feasible. Three days then four days passed, nothing. I kept working suffering from a bit of insomnia but for me it was the smoothest detox ever. I've heard conflicting reports of course and everything's subjective but it's nothing like what I'm going through with the methadone. As far as melatonin is concerned, I've had a bit of luck with it. It definitely helps lull a person a bit. If you do find yourself with RLS I've recently discovered that Imodium works well for that. It seems strange but the only way I could catch a few hours in those first 7 days was taking 15-20 Imodium. Be careful though because if you think opiates constipate you ain't seen nothing yet. (BTW, the discovery of Imodium is interesting) Well, I hope at least some of my advice helps. Mine was a good experiment and good god I wish I had a few left over but stay strong friend, all will be well. -Nate

 

[motherofearth]

A tramadol kick is one of the worst ones out there. They are intense and last two to three times longer than your usual opiate kick. Which is unfortunate in regards to the suboxone, b/c it will bind to your receptors at doses higher than 1mg after a few weeks use and you will have to taper off suboxone as well. Furthermore, the maintenance, or long term, use of suboxone does allow for the prospect of bad post acute withdrawal syndromes. Nonetheless, it is better than staying on pods and trams, and it may be the safest and surest way out.

Personally, I've used suboxone at a rapid taper rate to get through heroin withdrawals a number of times. 5 days on the sub at max and I didn't have to experience the acute heroin withdrawal, nor did the suboxone gain opportunity to bind to my mu receptor. However, as I said, that may not carry you through the duration of a tram withdrawal. Perhaps you can consult w/ the sub doctor and see if they'll start you low and have you off the sub within 3 weeks; however, I'm guessing they've already put you on a dose of at least 8mgs a day, which to me always seems like too much. This is from my personal experience detoxing from moderate to impressively severe heroin use. I can't help but speculate the docs have some personal agenda in keeping so many on subs for such protracted stretches. If you want to avoid getting on the maintenance track you can always dose yourself lower and determine how little it takes to hold you.

As for the sleep, it surprises me the doctor would recommend an antihistamine, given the widely known exacerbating effects it has on RLS. He should prescribe you trazadone in this case. Or anything aside from an antihistamine. I've never taken melatonin, but if that works for you then it would be preferable to anything prescribed.

Best of luck and congratulations on your choice to get a hold of your addiction.

 

[purrpilll]

Hey GL, I think you will find it easier to sleep on Subs. I would not advice Imodium on Subs. Melatonin has worked for me in the past and I am an insomniac. I find I can sleep good on subs I just had to get up early, and as soon as I feel tired at night I HAVE to go to sleep or up for hours. Goodluck! If you have anymore questions about it I can try and help. I was once very against them. They have saved my life. They are very strong!!!!

 

[GoldenLovely]

Thanks for the responses so far. I've got to say, I just love this place. This is the only place I can come and lay on the line exactly what's going on in my life without any BS and I can get answers and advice without any BS or judgement..


So anyway, I wanted to give a few responses to the responses...
As far as the tram, they were the first thing I ran out of a few weeks ago, then I ran out of the "good" pods, so all Ive had were some really teeny tiny weak ass pods that just barely took the edge off of WDs. So in a way that was good, since I sort of went through the Tram Wds already and when you don't have much to fall back on, its not as hard to start treatment.

As far as the doc recommending Benadryl, I was a little surprised that he didn't know how bad they are for someone with RLS. I would imagine for someone in recovery for opiate addiction with RLS as a pre condition it would be even worse. But I'm not thinking that this is doctor Kildare. I mean the guy is supposed to be an expert on opiate addicts and he's never heard of some one using poppy pods? Like I said before, its probably not as popular as days gone by ,but i'm pretty sure direct ingestion of the pod was one of the first ways people got their opium. But as long as I get my prescription..that's the most important thing. I would have liked him to prescribe something for the insomnia, I know others who'd gone to sub docs and been given prescriptions for sleep in addition to the subs, but I guess all the doctors are different.


As far as how I'm doing...pretty good 7 hours in. Oh I forgot to mention the dose...Its the suboxone Film...(buprenophine & Naloxone)8mg/2mg. Anyway...I felt really great there for a while. Scary great, like almost how I felt the first time i tried opiates...which I didn't expect. Now I'm just feeling good. I'm still a bit worried about the cost. Remember when I earlier said if I can afford the addiction, I can afford the treatment..well....Now that I'm doing the math...the addiction might just be cheaper....but it depends on how much i have to take. I've got 14 strips so far. Supposed to take two a day. If these really are just a one week supply, then that's going to cost an arm and a leg. But he did say that sometimes I can take half a strip and these things are very strong, so that might be possible..which means i can make this last two weeks and that's doable..
I got my appetite back pretty strong which for others would be a great thing. However I'm a former gastric bypass patient and formerly, very obese and its scary for me when I can eat. I try to find the positive in everything and when I'm going through the hell of withdrawal, I say "Well at least I don't feel like eating!" Its also another thing that make tramadol so tempting. With pods, I can eat...I almost have the munchies with pods, but tramadol is an appetite suppresent. I am so scared of getting obese again. I've kept off about 160 of the 180lbs that I've lost, so that's not bad. I'd rather have not gained anything and I'm going to try to lose that 20, but I am terrified of gaining more, so anything that gives me an appetite scares me.
OK 15 minutes since I started writing this and no WDs so far! Thanks for the responses and any further responses are always welcome!

 

[zdiddy]

I am a pro sub user, if I dare say. Some things I've learned:
Wd's take longer to come on, but they do come

A little goes a long way

Get on insurance somehow (I have never paid full price for a script.... Those coupons help a lot)

MelAtonin can help

Even if you take it every other day you'll be fine (subs and wd wise)

My life has gotten infinitely better since getting on sub. I realize I will have to get off one day. Right now, it helps.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Hey Golden, I too went from poppy's to suboxone. The sub doc had never heard of ppt either. It's been over a year of maintenance for me and my life is infinitely better than when I was in active addiction. Stick it out, you'll see. Be careful about tramadol though- you can use it on top of suboxone, it works. I broke my elbow, the doc prescribed me trams- I loved it..so yeah, thankfully my script ran out and I told my sub clinic about it, now no worries. Keep your head up. Oh and by the way, it takes about 5 days to fully adjust to suboxone, so give it time.

 

[bagochina]

i was on suboxone for 8 years. my advice, get off as soon as you can. opiate free for 3 years (almost).

 

[motherofearth]

I'm willing to bet you would feel mostly fine taking 2mgs a day, and be much better off for it when it comes time to jump off the sub. If your goal is to get off all substances ASAP then you should experiment to determine the smallest dose and the longest durations that will hold off the withdrawals. As zdiddy mentioned, the subs last a while, and many people take them every other day (the half life is 36 hours). Doctors almost always prescribe inordinately high doses of this shit and people end up shelling out bundles of cash to stay on maintenance, subject themselves to unnecessary PAWS, and prolong the entire process.

I hate to second guess professionals, but I've seen this again and again. As I said, withdrawing from a standard heroin habit I was given 8mgs a day; I found I only needed 4mgs for a couple days, then 3mgs for a day, then 2mgs, and then 1. I was off the sub in less than a week and didn't experience acute heroin withdrawals or sub withdrawals. Only when I had an intensely severe habit did I require 8mg and beyond to feel normal, and still, I only stayed on an 8mg dose for a couple days. However, I took action in terms of exercising, sleep, and diet to balance out my neurochemistry more rapidly.

Maintenance seems to be for people who cannot conquer the psychological aspect, or cravings, and need the barrier subs create as an alternative to sitting in the bathroom looking for a vein all day. No doubt, if I were on sub maintenance I less likely would have relapsed the several times I did. Yet, everyone needs to face their cravings and psychological dependence eventually. I feel since I'm doing it now I am learning incrementally how to sort my cravings out in the future, as opposed to escaping them. But I do understand why some people (who have tried everything and can't stop using) go the maintenance rout.

 

[RedLeader]

From what I gather, doctors write such high scripts for Suboxone because it requires a higher dose of Sub to conquer mental cravings that it does to keep the withdrawals away. I personally never found Suboxone to be at all helpful with my mental cravings, and I tried it all the way up to the ceiling dose. Being prescribed so much Suboxone ultimately just made my heroin habit worse, because I started selling nearly all of the Sub for heroin money. But I would also agree with MoE in that rapid tapering with Suboxone is a great way to physically detox a habit, but IO have mixed opinions about long-term maintenance. You have to be extremely confident that you're not going to relapse, because when you relapse on Suboxone it can get dangerous because you'll want to keep dosing the full-agonist to try and break through the Sub, not realising the building risk of OD. But if you were that confident about not relapsing, then why do you need to be on maintenance in the first place? As well, keeping the Suboxone dose low would be important if you actually needed pain medication for an emergency. I would hate to be an a bad accident and then not getting anything out of the medication given to me because I was on some silly daily dose of Suboxone (and be left in extreme pain).

For sleep, the only OTC sleeping medication that works for me is doxylamine succinate. This is most commonly found in Nyquil, but should be sought out on its own if it is to be used. I also find that complete exhaustion after grueling physical exercise also helps put me to sleep. I don't know how well this would work on your RLS.

 

[GoldenLovely]

Hello all. Day 5 and doing pretty good. AGain, you've all given me some very good advice...Thanks for the person who said that it takes your body a few days to get used to the sub. I'd been feeling a bit "weird" and that was one of the most comforting things to hear.

I think the doctor knew the dose was pretty high because he even told me I can tear the strip in half and just take one half at a time, which is what I've been doing for the most part.
The suboxone has almost completely taken away the physical part of the withdrawals. So on the physical front, its a miracle. No pain, no RLS...thanks heavens for NO RLS!
Emotionally and mentally has been a different story. Its been quite the roller coaster this week.
I've gone from feeling quite good, to back down into the depths of depression, to feeling anxious, and every where in between. The horrible news of a couple of days ago didn't help. Part of the reason for the rapid changes have probably been hormonal as well.....i.e surprise PMS!

Anyway, I've been doing ok on half doses. Except for yesterday. I was feeling anxious and kind of bad and I had to go out with friends last night. So I took an entire 8mg dose in the morning....and when I still felt crappy, I took another one before I went out last evening. i think yesterday was the first day I took the entire prescribed 16mg a day. I felt kind of guilty. I thought to myself "Im supposed to be tapering DOWN not up!" But I just wanted to feel ok when I went out...and I finally started to feel better again a short time after my evening dose. I had a good night out with and I know I can credit the suboxone for that. I went out to a restaurant with two friends and I enjoyed my meal and my company. I know that would not have been even remotely possible, on the 5th day of opiate detox without the subs..So I am grateful for that help.

Took a half a strip this morning and have been feeling pretty good today. In the morning I felt almost as good as I felt the first night on subs. Here's a strange coincidence...The two times this week that I've felt "up" and "happy" after my sub dose, my nose got itchy just like it had the first couple of times I took poppy tea, before I developed a tolerance. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not...but I just found it to be interesting.
Right now I'm ok. Not really up, not down. Not anxious, just normal...and normal is what i pray for.
Anyway, so far, so good....Thanks again for the responses!

 

[adicabrady]

I'm on Suboxone too,after a lengthy habit.I learned on Bluelight that Suboxone is one of the few drugs that does not work better at higher doses.I'm stubborn and thick,I had to read that over and over from many different people on here.The message finally got through.I take between 3 & 4 mg. and would probably be just as good at 2mg.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

How are you doing, GL?

 

[GoldenLovely]

The 8mg (whole strip) does seem to work a little more effectively than 4mg(half a strip at a time)...but that might be psychological or psychosomatic or whatever its called.

Thanks for asking how I'm doing.
At this very second, fine. But its been such an emotional roller coaster, in 20 minutes I might be miserable and depressed. For the major physical symptoms, subs are heaven sent. However my mind and spirit are not quite as stable as my body. I just wrote a long reply detailing my recent ups and downs, but it seemed rambling and unnecessary so I erased it and replaced it with the following :

I'm doing good at this moment in time. I have had some very bad downs and some ok ups. Might have been PMS the first part of the week but that's over and I am still experiencing periodic bouts of depression and malaise. I mentioned that to the dr at my appointment yesterday. He prescribed an anti depressant. However, I'm trying to take less drugs not more, so I'm not sure if I'm going to take it t or not. I am continuing with the subs, but I really would like to be off of all drugs in the not too distant future. I actually feel kind of guilty about the anti-depressant. I wanted to be honest with my doctor and tell him exactly how im doing and I have had some days where I felt really emotionally awful, but I feel like maybe Im setting my self up for failure by agreeing to be prescribed another drug. I feel anxious about even mentioning it here...like I feel like I'm going to be judged, even though everyone has been very understanding, so I think its just my guilty conscious. I hope that makes sense.
So to sum it up...Today, Wed December 19th 2012 at six minutes after two pm. I'm doing good. And considering the fact that I'm a trying-to-recover-opiate addict, I'm doing alot better than I MIGHT otherwise be doing without the suboxone crutch. In two hours, I might be curled up on my bed with a bad case of the "whoa-is-mes". but now...I'm OK....thanks for being and hopefully you're doing good too.
XO