First Cycle: Testo c + tren a + masteron

[CFC]

This is beyond absurd. At 17 you are a minor. You have no experience, and therefore no wisdom and very limited insight.

Simply regurgitating the opinions of others who are does not qualify you to post in such a strident, arrogant and forthright manner as you have in this thread.

People coming here looking for advice could be fooled into thinking your opinions have credibility and that you are experienced in the use of AAS, when in reality you have neither experience nor enough knowledge to present yourself in the way you have.

I suggest you find a hobby (if that's what this is to you) that is more age-appropriate and hold your over-confident opinions until you've a good few years experience under your belt.

 

[CFC]

And people who come here are being fooled by your "proper first cycle" , so although I may not have experience I've spent the last year doing nothing but researching about proper first cycles reading article after article and every thread and sticky available to me on many forums, one of which I've been a member to now for sometime, in the future I plan to run my first cycle and I hope it's ran as safely as possible because its my hopes and dreams to become a Sponsored athlete and become a very well known name in the bodybuilding industry. Excuse me for trying to further other people's meager knowledge on SAFE (and I emphasize that word) AAS use.

Look, your enthusiasm is admirable at your age, and it's great to know that you're trying to build your knowledge up before you do your first cycle (and hopefully that will be a good few years away yet given your age). And had you not launched into a rather surreal tirade against the combined knowledge of everyone else on this board, you might well have received encouragement rather than criticism. You present yourself as both combative and a know-it-all, and yet underneath it all you're a complete novice.

Bodybuilding boards are very democratic, in the sense that anyone can post their opinions. But that can also be a big problem, because unfortunately not all opinons are based on equal wisdom, experience, insight or knowledge. And unfortunately it is often those who have the least knowledge or experience, who have read a few articles and threads here and there, who advocate their opinions most strongly, because they simply don't know what they don't know.

But the reality is, there are members on here with many years, and in some cases decades, of knowledge. That have been doing this since before you were born. Who have been reading journals, bodybuilding forums, writing articles, *and* gaining both personal experience and in many cases training clients and others and learning through them and their gym associates as well. It doesn't always mean they are 'right', but what they say is spoken from a place of considerable insight. What you say is not and that makes it highly misleading and inappropriate.

 

[CFC]

How so is my knowledge more inappropriate than someone with experience if I'm quoting people who have the same experience you speak of as some members here have. These people I'm quoting are 30, 40, 50 years old who have been into this stuff since, you're right, before I was born, and there scientific research and personal experences they share with me add up and make sense as to their theories on how to cycle properly. So why can't I share there information? I never said it was my own.

Because it's not 'your' knowledge - it's their knowledge. It's customary to *quote* the source for the information you're presenting if you're not trying to pretend that it's yours. You did not do this, you therefore portrayed what you wrote as 'your' knowledge.

EG: [author] on [xxx.com]; or "the guys on xxx.com" say: "HCG is the best thing ever for recovery etc etc etc..." so why do you guys say you shouldn't use it on a cycle?? - would have been an appropriate way of contributing to this thread, especially as you don't seem to be aware of many of the (rather fundamental) issues GF was raising regarding HCG desensitising the testes (for example). Which, again, is an indication that such strong opinions are inappropriate for you.

This is also the essential difference between primary research from which you formulate your own opinions - that is, reading research in journals, or actual experience of using compounds; and secondary research - where someone else did both the primary research *and* then presented their own opinion based on that research, which you have now quoted via a thread or article from a bodybuilding board.

Opinions formed directly out of primary research are always more valuable since they're based on a direct reading of the data. For now, all your 'data' is going to be other people's opinions repackaged as your own, until you start reading the original *studies* from where the idea came from, and have also read hundreds of conflicting ones to build a bigger picture of what's going on, and then combined that with dozens of conflicting opinions based on other people's research and experience as well, and then also until you are actually experienced to some degree in using said compounds. This is clearly not true for you, and won't be for a number of years yet, no matter how frustrating you may find it.

If you claim you've been reading forums, you should already know this though.

 

[Daz-69]

How so is my knowledge more inappropriate than someone with experience if I'm quoting people who have the same experience you speak of as some members here have. These people I'm quoting are 30, 40, 50 years old who have been into this stuff since, you're right, before I was born, and there scientific research and personal experences they share with me add up and make sense as to their theories on how to cycle properly. So why can't I share their information? I never said it was my own.

We are happy to listen to anyone with new ideas, unfortunately you went about it in the wrong way..

I might suggest when you come on a science based web-site such as Blue-light you do so with an open mind, science is ever evolving, we are always open to new ideas, or new science.. We have members here whom are well versed in Anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology, most are university educated, or are employed in the medical field (as am I).. To come here with tunnel vision, refuting good science presented to you, is not the best way forward here....

One thing you may eventually learn about the fitness/supplement industry is, it is and always has been full of lies and untruths, the web-sites you quoted do have products for sale, as do some of the writers of the original sources to which you quote... please be careful of this in the future when you put your faith in people you have never met on the internet, or paste research papers you don't have full access to, or the knowledge to fully understand..

I personally have over 30 years experience with anabolic compounds, one thing I can say, is that no two individuals will respond in the exact same way to a particular compound, diet, or training routine..

PCT, estrogen management, mechanisms of gyno, are all controversial subjects many people will disagree on, as I previously stated everyone seems to respond slightly different to the same compound(s).. I myself have never experienced noticeable sides from estrogen, or gyno... Some people seem to get gyno on ridiculously low doses, or on compounds not known to aromatize, that's just how it is with AAS...

Our knowledge is improving, so its best not to close your mind when someone presents to you science that differs from yours, or the opinion of someone you quote, on first cycle, PCT, or D2 agonists...

Remember bodybuilders on internet forums don't tend to be molecular neuropharmacologists, biochemists, or medical professionals, we happen to have more than our fair share here..!!

 

[Snarky91]

This is a hilarious thread. It reminds me of when I was 17. I thought I was unstoppable. Impregnable. Nobody knew more than me. I could spout off trivia bits and assert my opinion about anything with the belief in its true justification and contemptuous of the tepid minds who stayed within the limits of their comfortable mode of existence. They would always lack animus and verve. I was always taking people aback because of things I said about the ease and facility to accomplish forward thinking ideas. That was wild exuberant optimistic times. This is a phase. It's a peak of energies where nothing seems insurmountable and anyone can be challenged. No hesitation if I'm right about something and I need to elucidate the weakness and flaws which were inexcusable manifestations of others' need to be enlightened with forthright education.

I used to get excited seeing errors in news articles. It fed my sense of superiority. Now I sense there is much more to enrichment than dwelling on details. There are lessons and life experiences. Personal growth and cautiousness. Wisdom embraced as a blessing to appreciate, knowing the damage in making any waste of it.

 

[Desohigh]

I'm just having trouble to prepare myself and my psychology to be in a cycle.
Please stop with the argue.

I just want clean information to relieve myself and please kindly help me!

One thing is clear on my mind;
I will have a tren acetate + testo for my first cycle, I know you don't recommend tren but I give my decision about it.
Just confused about the mg's. Because all i know and hear about my friends are; with the right dose you won't get any harm from steroids.

There's too many questions in my head;
1. I will start 7 April (I will be back from amsterdam) a lot of drugs in my blood system :/ Will it do any damage to mix with steroids? I'm clean like 3 months and after A'dam wont use anything in my life.
2. To prevent prolactin, everybody recommends cabaser in our country. So instead of Cabaser, what should i use to prevent it?
3. I'm very afraid of gyno and with arimidex eod should prevent estrogen increase?
4. Where can I find some "true" information to create my cycle and what should I be aware of?
5. Also, after the start, 7 weeks later (on 1 June) I have to go to abroad (dubai) for 1 week. I won't bring there (think couldn't) so I won't inject anything. Does this cause any problems? Or should i try to bring there for injection?
6. My aim was just to cut; but after getting in to steroids, I want to add some decent mass to cover my size loss from fat. Maybe this sounds like greedy but that's why we take risk right?

I will start my first cycle with 1 partner and 1 good bodybuilder as a coach.
But I need to learn this shit by myself because I won't risk myself to my coach (although i trust him too much).

I don't claim that I know something, It's just my research from some sites.

 

[Daz-69]

So much misinformation...!!

 

[Genetic Freak]

I'm just having trouble to prepare myself and my psychology to be in a cycle.
Please stop with the argue.

I just want clean information to relieve myself and please kindly help me!

One thing is clear on my mind;
I will have a tren acetate + testo for my first cycle, I know you don't recommend tren but I give my decision about it.
Just confused about the mg's. Because all i know and hear about my friends are; with the right dose you won't get any harm from steroids.

There's too many questions in my head;
1. I will start 7 April (I will be back from amsterdam) a lot of drugs in my blood system :/ Will it do any damage to mix with steroids? I'm clean like 3 months and after A'dam wont use anything in my life.
2. To prevent prolactin, everybody recommends caber in our country. So instead of Caber, what should i use to prevent it?
3. I'm very afraid of gyno and with arimidex eod should prevent estrogen increase?
4. Where can I find some "true" information to create my cycle and what should I be aware of?
5. Also, after the start, 7 weeks later (on 1 June) I have to go to abroad (dubai) for 1 week. I won't bring there (think couldn't) so I won't inject anything. Does this cause any problems? Or should i try to bring there for injection?
6. My aim was just to cut; but after getting in to steroids, I want to add some decent mass to cover my size loss from fat. Maybe this sounds like greedy but that's why we take risk right?

I will start my first cycle with 1 partner and 1 good bodybuilder as a coach.
But I need to learn this shit by myself because I won't risk myself to my coach (although i trust him too much).

I don't claim that I know something, It's just my research from some sites.

Personally I would recommend you DON'T use AAS yet, you don't appear experience or have the right mental approach..

AAS and drugs DO NOT MIX..!!

We DO NOT recommend Trenbolone for a first cycle..

Prolactin is an essential hormone, as is estrogen, both are needed for healthy bodily function, when exogenous androgens rise, expect prolactin and estrogen to rise proportionately, (this is normal) only when the Androgen:Estrogen ratio gets out of whack might some people be more prone to side effects.... Manage estrogen, you manage prolactin... Therefore it is prudent to keep aromatizing compounds (testosterone) low, to keep estrogen synthesis low... Zinc picolinate 150mg/day for a week then reduce to 50mg/day thereafter should manage estrogen on a low aromatizable cycle.. (Tren does not aromatize)...!!

You don't need caber, you only use adex 0.5mg EOD if estrogen is significantly high in blood tests... Otherwise don't use compounds you don't need , as unnecessary use could be detrimental to your health....

I strongly suggest you hold back on the AAS and learn more about hormones you wish to inject into your body....!!!!

Post up body weight, age, years training, BF%, diet, training..

 

[Desohigh]

Hey thank you for spending time writing me a reply, much appreciated.

In the thread first post I mentioned all info you asked me;
I'm doing bodybuilding for 8 years.
I'm now 26, 1.84cm and 91 kgs. I got bodyfat around 11% - but some user here said i was %15 (here's a photo of me again; http://imgur.com/srNO3KD and http://i.imgur.com/qqzZ2HP.jpg

For nutrition; I'm trying myself like I'm in a cylce for 2 months, and got obsessed to eat very clean. I cook my own meals, got obsessed with the grams which I take. I prefer mostly turkey, beef, salmon, asparagus, broccoli, brown cracked wheat (like rice - hope it means anything). I consume cucumber, avocado and nuts between meals. The typical clean eating thing
For ex: If I smoke weed at my friends, I bring my meals for the next day to his home etc. (That really helps a lot)

The first misunderstanding is;
I don't do drugs. But Im going to Amsterdam and will do there. When I come back i will start my AAS cycle. (But when I come back home, there will be a still left a small % of drug in my system) that's why I'm worried.

So you're saying that Zinc will manage my estrogen and automatically manage prolactin. Just to keep it safe, I will take arimidex (if i needed)

I will have a deep research for this weekend and talk with some pro's which will compete this year.
I'm eager to jump to AAS cycle just once in my life.

 

[Genetic Freak]

Hey thank you for spending time writing me a reply, much appreciated.

In the thread first post I mentioned all info you asked me;
I'm doing bodybuilding for 8 years.
I'm now 26, 1.84cm and 91 kgs. I got bodyfat around 11% - but some user here said i was %15 (here's a photo of me again; http://imgur.com/srNO3KD and http://i.imgur.com/qqzZ2HP.jpg

For nutrition; I'm trying myself like I'm in a cylce for 2 months, and got obsessed to eat very clean. I cook my own meals, got obsessed with the grams which I take. I prefer mostly turkey, beef, salmon, asparagus, broccoli, brown cracked wheat (like rice - hope it means anything). I consume cucumber, avocado and nuts between meals. The typical clean eating thing
For ex: If I smoke weed at my friends, I bring my meals for the next day to his home etc. (That really helps a lot)

The first misunderstanding is;
I don't do drugs. But Im going to Amsterdam and will do there. When I come back i will start my AAS cycle. (But when I come back home, there will be a still left a small % of drug in my system) that's why I'm worried.

So you're saying that Zinc will manage my estrogen and automatically manage prolactin. Just to keep it safe, I will take arimidex (if i needed)

I will have a deep research for this weekend and talk with some pro's which will compete this year.
I'm eager to jump to AAS cycle just once in my life.

Sorry, this thread recently got sidetracked by a misinformed idiot, insistent on unnecessary polypharmacy for conditions you don't have..!! We don't advise taking pharmacological compounds to knock-out vital hormones like prolactin or estrogen, if levels are managed correctly and NOT causing side effects...

Estrogen is essential for growth, when exogenous hormone (testosterone) levels rise expect estrogen to rise proportionately, this is normal.. Unfortunately some people experience side effects on low doses of aromatizing compounds, some (me) do not..!! You won't know until you start experimenting, thats why it is prudent and ALWAYS ADVISED to start on TESTOSTERONE ONLY for a first cycle...
When using testosterone ONLY, you will know how your body reacts by starting fairly low, and slowly increasing the dose to see if you do suffer side effects from just the testosterone..

It is always advised to obtain pre-cycle blood tests, then re-test mid cycle, and at any point you feel unwell or believe you are experiencing side effects (you will know for sure where hormone levels are that may be causing problems without guesswork)...

It is always prudent to have Adex or Aromasin on hand incase you do experience side effects, but use only if necessary, these are breast cancer medications meant for females, DON'T USE WITHOUT REASON TO DO SO...!!!
And only use moderate doses to manage the problem, (if one arrises) some people take too much and end up with side effects of LOW ESTROGEN..!!

Remember testosterone aromatizes into estrogen (E2) via the aromatase enzyme CYP19A1, if estrogen conversion is high it can easily be managed by lowering testosterone without the need for cancer meds...
Zinc (high dose) could be used, if showing estrogen side effects to manage levels accordingly, if diet is optimal extra supplementation of copper may not be necessary...FYI copper is found in many foods, particularly in organ meats, seafood, nuts, seeds, wheat bran cereals, grain products,,,,

Your diet appears to be good, your BF% (from the pic) seems to be acceptable, you appear to have a reasonable foundation on which to build.. I might suggest add some white rice into your diet..
Any residual drugs should be out of your system after returning from Amsterdam, although we don't advocate the combination of hard drugs and AAS here....

With experience a sensible steroid cycle can be safely managed without the need for unnecessary polypharmacy, the least drugs you put into your body the better for long-term health.. If a particular compound is giving you side effects, lower the dose, if that doesn't work, and you are still experiencing side effects DON'T USE IT...!!! use something else..!!

 

[Desohigh]

It's very nice that you help to people like me who has no experience in AAS.
Thank you Genetic Freak.

Before my deep research, I don't want to bother with any questions but; If you had to do this cycle, (tren acetate + testo) what would your doses be, how you increase it?
How can you dose to get best efficiency from a tren cycle?
Tren acetate 100x2 (per week)
Testo 2x250mg (per week)
seems fine?

Some people says testo 250mg should be enough, what's your opinion about it?

 

[Genetic Freak]

It's very nice that you help to people like me who has no experience in AAS.
Thank you Genetic Freak.

Before my deep research, I don't want to bother with any questions but; If you had to do this cycle, (tren acetate + testo) what would your doses be, how you increase it?
How can you dose to get best efficiency from a tren cycle?
Tren acetate 100x2 (per week)
Testo 2x250mg (per week)
seems fine?

Some people says testo 250mg should be enough, what's your opinion about it?

If it was me, I wouldn't be taking Tren-A without considerable experience of my body and how it responds to more basic compounds such as testosterone only, backed up by blood tests, so I had a good general idea about estrogenic response, prolactin levels and, issues with aromatization and at what dose etc...

Testosterone-C, I would keep fairly low, no higher than 250mg/week.. pinned 125mg X 2/week..

Tren-A (acetate) should be pinned ED (every day) that works out to be about 0.3ml (milliliter) ED, if your Tren is dosed at 100mg/ml.... This should equate to about 200mg/week..!!

Keep to an 8 week cycle..

 

[Desohigh]

Hey I just revised my cycle depending on my researches.

For my first cycle, I will use only testo and masteron.
My aim is still to cut.

Testo propionate - 450mg (3x150mg)
Masteron - 300mg (3x100mg)

I'm researching these compounds and stack.
I will use arimidex and want to use HCG during my cycle.
Cycle length will be around 10 (if needed 12)
Do I need proviron everyday?

How should I prevent the hairloss?(or minimize?)

Need help!

 

[Daz-69]

Hey I just revised my cycle depending on my researches.

For my first cycle, I will use only testo and masteron.
My aim is still to cut.

Testo propionate - 450mg (3x150mg)
Masteron - 300mg (3x100mg)

I'm researching these compounds and stack.
I will use arimidex and want to use HCG during my cycle.
Cycle length will be around 10 (if needed 12)
Do I need proviron everyday?

How should I prevent the hairloss?(or minimize?)

Need help!

Don't take Masteron...

 

[Daz-69]

Hey I just revised my cycle depending on my researches.

For my first cycle, I will use only testo and masteron.
My aim is still to cut.

Testo propionate - 450mg (3x150mg)
Masteron - 300mg (3x100mg)

I'm researching these compounds and stack.
I will use arimidex and want to use HCG during my cycle.
Cycle length will be around 10 (if needed 12)
Do I need proviron everyday?

How should I prevent the hairloss?(or minimize?)

Need help!

The half life of Test propionate is about 0.8 days, ideally you should be pinning ED...
At 450mg test, you might not need adex...

Why do you think you need Proviron...????

 

[Desohigh]

I think EOD is common use for propionate.
The half life is around 2.5-3 days, how is it 0.8days?
I want to inject masteron 100mg + test propionate 150mg every monday-wednesday-friday.

Combine with the masteron + prop, It should prevent the estrogen increase but in any case I need to keep arimidex or at least take a half every 3-4 days?
Also, How should I add HCG to my cycle?
If I don't, testicules will be smaller and this will effect too much my psychology.

Please enlighten me about PCT!

Btw, I'm still researching about this so I need your opinions to finalize my cycle and all other things.

 

[Genetic Freak]

I think EOD is common use for propionate.
The half life is around 2.5-3 days, how is it 0.8days?
I want to inject masteron 100mg + test propionate 150mg every monday-wednesday-friday.

Combine with the masteron + prop, It should prevent the estrogen increase but in any case I need to keep arimidex or at least take a half every 3-4 days?
Also, How should I add HCG to my cycle?
If I don't, testicules will be smaller and this will effect too much my psychology.

Please enlighten me about PCT!

Btw, I'm still researching about this so I need your opinions to finalize my cycle and all other things.

I am unsure as to where you are obtaining your information but Testosterone-Propionate half-life is closer to 0.8 day and should be injected ED..

In our study, administration of testosterone propionate-19-d3 was followed by a gradual decline in plasma endogenous testosterone levels, which then returned to pretreatment
levels 24 h after the administration of testosterone propionate-19-d3.

http://anabolicsteroidcalculator.com/resources/articles/pharmacology/article_18.pdf

Masteron does NOT prevent estrogen increase... As a 5a reduced compound it shouldn't convert to estrogen, that doesn't mean it will reduce estrogen in combination with other compounds...

You shouldn't need adex on 450mg/test/week...

You don't need hCG for a 10 week course of AAS....

Personally I'd taper off the testosterone in the last 2 weeks, No PCT...!!!

 

[CFC]

This is the longest first cycle thread I think I've ever read, I'm amazed at the patience of you guys lol... 8(

 

[Serotonin101]

Eh I had estro issues at 500/week test and some guys on gh15 had issues even at cruise doses while also being lean (below 10%bf). But the half life thing, just do ed for prop. I mean some get away with EOD but I prefer being stable with short esters as the fluctuations are larger which opens doors for side effects. Now if we were comparing pinning deca once or twice a week I'd say it's a moot point as its active life is so long.

 

[CFC]

Eh I had estro issues at 500/week test and some guys on gh15 had issues even at cruise doses while also being lean (below 10%bf). But the half life thing, just do ed for prop. I mean some get away with EOD but I prefer being stable with short esters as the fluctuations are larger which opens doors for side effects. Now if we were comparing pinning deca once or twice a week I'd say it's a moot point as its active life is so long.

I have gyno issues at 250/wk... it's very annoying.