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First Came Alcohol, then Kratom, then Oxy. Now...Nothing?

fallzdown

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Jun 20, 2015
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This thread is mainly for me to keep a journal of events that unfold over the course of the next week. I felt it belonged here because prior to my Kratom addiction, I successfully stopped drinking alcohol, cold turkey (after 10 years of a fifth a day) with the help of AA. So I at least have a taste of sobriety and I desperately want it back. Here's to hoping that anyone else dealing with "addiction substitution" will get some value out of this thread. I tend to write very long posts, I'll try to keep it short and sweet. FWIW- I haven't had a drink in over 2 and half years.

The Alcoholic- Like I said, I drank daily for 10 years and then...just had enough. I went to an AA meeting which is the *LAST* thing I ever thought I'd do and it changed my life. My story is very atypical, but I went from losing my love, my house, my company, all of my money and nearly my liver to a sober, happy life where I got everything back. It took less than a year but I followed The Program like it was my fucking job. It worked. WOW.

The Kratom- I celebrated a year sober with my new girl, new job, new house, new car and new lease on life. I would go to meetings 3-5 times a week. Then I found Kratom. I bought some at a head shop and, unbelievably, it worked as advertised. 5 grams and it felt to me just like a Percocet (I was completely opiate naive at the time). That lasted a week or two, dosing daily. That's when I became a "connoisseur", trying different strains and vendors. I must say, it was a helpful plant. I've had numerous injuries from a lifetime of extreme sports (if I go into detail, I risk outting myself) and found Kratom was legitimately helpful as a pain reliever. Of course I was mostly taking it to get a legal high. That went on for 4-6 months and one day I recognized the pattern of addiction and threw out my stash without thinking twice. That night I went through HELL and had no idea why. I honestly did not make the connection that I was experiencing withdrawal symptoms. I had no clue. EXTREME lethargy but couldn't sleep, the sweats, depression, anxiety and what I would eventually learn was called "restless leg syndrome", although I think that moniker is pitifully misnamed. 2 days went by before I realized what was happening. I got some more Kratom, re-dosed and was fine. I then tried to taper but I'm an addict, you know how that goes.

The Pills- This one is just crazy. Again, can't go into detail here for a LOT of reasons but MY AA SPONSOR inadvertently opened up a path to me by which I gained access to pills. Don't ask. User your imagination. It was NOT his fault. Foolishly told myself I'd use pills to get off Kratom (and hey, if I got high that was a bonus). It worked. A few weeks went by, I was sober, no WDs. But man did I crave those pills. So I got more. And more. And more...Eventually I just kept bouncing between Kratom and oxy. The financial cost was absurd but I could afford it. The toll it took on my sex life wasn't worth it anymore so I made numerous attempts to quit and have not been successful. On the third or fourth day of withdrawal (whether it's from my 150mg/day oxy habit or 16gram a day Kratom habit), I cave and re-dose.

I haven't been to a meeting in months.

This past week I quit Kratom and oxy CT. Spent 3.5 days in hell, then re-dosed. THREE AND A HALF DAYS OF HELL FOR NOTHING. I started searching for suboxone docs in my area and searching Bluelight for any kind of help. I read about the Loperamide method and spent 4 total days (dozens of hours), researching Lope. I'm aware of the risks, but feel I'm out of options.

My last 15mg dose of oxy was 12 hours ago. 8 hours ago I downed 800mg of Tagamet and 7 hours ago I ate 24mg of Lope. I knew it would take 4-5 hours to reach peak plasma levels but a few hours in I was calling "bullshit" but dropped another 12mg. Well, holy hell, I sit here in front of my computer feeling about 95% A-OK. I have not felt like this in at least a year, probably longer. I feel sober (yes, I know I have an opiod in my system) and kind of want to get my groove on. I'm dumbfounded. If this Lope method actually continues to work, I will cry. I swear to you I'll cry tears of joy. I've been ready to give up this addiction the same way I was ready to give up alcohol. I'm done. Out. Over. Fin. I want nothing to do with pain management anymore. I'll deal with the pain if I can have my sobriety back. The WDs have kept me from sobering up and right now I just don't fucking have any symptoms and am speechless. I hope to God this works.

Tomorrow when I wake up I'm taking another 800mg of Tagamet followed, an hour later, by 32mg of Lope. I'll do it again on Day 3 then Day 4 same thing minus 2 pills. Then each subsequent day I'll take 2 fewer pills until I'm off completely. If anyone is reading this, please wish me luck. Also, if you think my Lope schedule is dangerous, for the love of all things holy, please tell me. I don't want to kick an opiate addiction just to die at the ER due to Imodium OD. I mean, I can't go out like that.

PS: I am taking Miralax and Senna and H20 to combat the constipation.

Peace. I'll report back tomorrow.
 
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Day 2

Last night (early this AM), I went to bed around 2am feeling just fine without a hint of WD. Better than I've felt in a very, very long time. I woke up 2 hours later with severe RLS. Incidentally, and not unexpectedly, this was exactly 12 hours since my first mega dose of Loperamide (24mg at 4pm the previous day). I immediately took 15 Lope pills (30mg total) and immediately puked. Not sure why that happened but I'm guessing it was a gag reflex. I continued puking for another minute or two.

At that point, I wasn't sure if any of the Lope had been dissolved and was still in my system. I guessed not since it was such a rapid reaction but can't be sure (they dissolve almost instantly). That kind of threw off my schedule and I want to be very cautious about how much Lope I take. So when I was done puking I took 8 tabs (16mg) without Tagamet to be extra safe. 90 minutes later I fell asleep.

I woke up today after a very long sleep at 2pm feeling a little rough but not terrible. A few minutes later I could feel the WD symptoms creep back in but far from awful, just very uncomfortable. I took 600mg of Tagamet followed by 16mg of Lope. Given the long half life of Lope and not knowing how much of the 15 pills I actually ingested in the middle of the night, I don't think I'm going to take anymore until late tonight. I have a strange pressure on the right side of my head that is mild but disconcerting. It could be unrelated but I don't want to chance it.

I was hoping to be completely clean today aside from the Lope but I'm a wuss and pretty terrified of the WDs so I took 5.5grams of Kratom (half Bali, half Malay). I will not be taking any more today and hope I won't need it tomorrow. I also just downed a glass of Miralax and a Red Bull to counter the constipation and lethargy, respectively. That was 15 minutes ago and I already feel a little better.
FWIW- I absolutely DO NOT want to take the Kratom. I'm not looking for "just one more high" and am not in denial about that. This is purely an adjunct to the Lope to diminish the WDs related to quitting the oxy addiction.

I'm able to do this detox from home so I'll keep myself busy with video games and reading. I'm planning to workout tomorrow and each day this week since I think I'll be OK enough to do so. At 8pm tonight I'll take 800mg of Tagamet followed by 24mg of Lope an hour later and go from there.

So far, so good. Let's see if I can hit the sweet spot with Lope as to not have it cause any complications but also take the WD symptoms away enough that I no longer need a small-moderate dose of daily Kratom. I think since tomorrow is Day 3, I'll probably need to dose 5.5grams of Kratom again but won't need it on Day 4.

Will check back in tonight.
 
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Great job trying to get the job done. Keep this updated as I'm going through oxy w/ds myself. Usually takes me a solid 10 days without taking anything
 
Thanks! Yeah, I can't keep doing this to myself (addiction). There's just too much at stake and I want to start feeling again. Best of luck to you. Mind if I ask what your daily habit is/was? Have you done the Lope method before?
Mine was steady at 60mg/day for about 8 months or so but then shot up to 120-150 over the past month. That's when I knew I absolutely had to quit for good. Glad to have someone else on this thread to reach out to. That always helps.

So I was feeling a bit crumby a few hours ago, nothing like full blown WDs, but major anxiety and lethargy. Manageable because I'm at home.
I took 24mg (12 pills) of Lope at around 8 after taking 800mg of Tagamet an hour prior. I started to feel almost 100% about 10 minutes ago. I'm in disbelief, but at the moment I have very little WD symptoms, just high anxiety. Didn't need Kratom. Just took the Immodium and waited 3 hours. I feel like myself again, it's awesome. Tomorrow afternoon I'll take 5 grams of Kratom and another 24 mg of Lope. I'm expecting tomorrow to be the worst day as it usually is for me. On Wednesday I'll stop Kratom and start tapering down the Lope by 2mg-4mg/day. As fast as I can handle it.

Still taking Miralax and Senna to combat the constipation and it's working quite well.
 
Day 3-

Woke up today after a decent night's sleep and so far have only very minor WD symptoms. High anxiety mostly. No watery eyes or RLS which is extremely unusual. My last dose of anything was 16mg of Lope last night around 10pm. Hoping I won't need Kratom today at all, just Lope. I'll be taking 30mg 15 minutes from now. Also, had a "significant" bowel movement (hahaha)- the lack of which had me worried for a while. The Senna and Miralax are clearly working, no issues there.

Had I known that Loperamide worked this well, I would have used it to get off Kratom last year instead of trying to quit and failing every time. But then again I don't think I was ready to stop. I got hooked on pain killers. Now I'm mentally ready to be done with everything and I have the pain of WD in my memory to help keep me off. In my experience, day 3 is always the worst and today is pretty manageable even without the Lope.
 
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Day 3 (night)-

Wow. I feel AMAZING tonight. I'm very familiar with this feeling, it's the "pink cloud" we alcoholics get once we stop dumping depressants into ourselves. I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts as I know I'm in for PAWS to be sure. Recap: Took 30mg of Lope around 1:30pm today and felt I needed 5 grams of Kratom to keep the WDs at bay. Both were 9 hours ago. I just took 8mg of Lope to act as a "booster" while I sleep tonight. But damn. I feel really sober and am in quite the positive mood. It's been years...really. I know I have 2 days of acute symptoms left and now I need to start tapering the Lope. Also, no more Kratom at all regardless of how bad things get. I'll be exercising tomorrow and hoping to God I'm through the worst of it all but I know better than to expect that. If I can make it 2 more days, then through the weekend without any major issues I'll be well on my road to recovery.

Of course, I say this now but I know when the PAWS hit- or any acute symptoms that I'm currently covering up- I'll be singing a different tune. Fingers crossed though.
 
Keep going man. You're doing great. Kratom is a short withdrawal so you're out of the woods by day 5. I'm at day 15 today and have ZERO physical symptoms. You're not that far behind me.

The PAWS are only as bad as you want to make them out to be. If you can get yourself into an exercise regimen, even 30 minutes of cardio/day, you'll fly past PAWS.

Such a novel feeling it is to wake up and feel NORMAL - free & able to go do what you want to do.
 
Thanks Pin and Ruby! I really appreciate the support.

Pin- Yeah man! I've just had my first experience with waking up and feeling pretty "normal" this past day or two. It was awesome. Usually i wake up in a mild to moderate state of withdrawal. Watery eyes and anxiety always, then it's downhill until I get a fix. These past 2 days that hasn't happened and it's unbelievable. Today I was actually laughing and conducting business. It's so helpful to login and read support from others. My thanks really go out to you for hopping on this thread. Congrats on 15 days!!! Sheesh, that may as well be a lifetime. I remember getting through my first 2 weeks sober from alcohol and it was the best feeling I've ever had in my life. You are rocking dude!!! When I wake up in 2 weeks and don't even have Lope in my system it will be crazy.

Day 4-
Woke up and had a few very important professional meetings today. First time in a while. Thank God I've been on Lope or else I would have had to cancel and that could have been a LIFE ALTERING BAD DECISION. If I was still using this week I may have canceled as well, just to sit home and get high. But I didn't. I took 800mg of Tagamet and 12 pills of Lope. Felt just fine and went through the day completely aware and "with it". Handled myself with grace, dignity and professionalism. If the outcome of my day isn't what I want at leas I know *for sure* it won't be because I was using or even thinking about using. That in of itself is an amazing feeling. I had sex with my girlfriend tonight and it was really good. A little scary because I can feel "feelings" coming back and now realize that I've been trying to dampen them with drugs. To any outsider, today would seem like a totally normal day in my life but to me it was completely abnormal. I was productive, on top of my game, had a few good laughs, had sex and didn't think about using or having to live through the pain of withdrawals. It's been 2 years since I could say that. My crazy double life as an addict.

I feel like I started to turn the corner today. I already feel like tomorrow (Day 5) I will HAVE turned the corner. 3 things have gotten me to this points. 1- Sincere dedication to quit, 2- Loperamide as a tool that enabled me to quit without the pain that always drags me back, 3- Support from members on this forum and the outlet it's provided me to share my story and reflect each night.

I took 30mg (15 pills) of Lope 1 hour after 800mg of Tagamet tonight. I can't tell if I started to feel WD symptoms or just wanted to play it safe and was afraid of waking up in the middle of the night withdrawaling. It's certainly not addiction related as I hate taking all these pills and they definitely have no effect AT ALL on my mental state. I'm looking forward to a nice night's sleep and another good day tomorrow. When I wake up tomorrow I'll start my Lope taper and report back.
 
Day 5-

Had a hard time sleeping last night and only got a few hours but it wasn't withdrawal related. Just my mind going a million miles a minute. After I finally did get a few hours of sleep I woke up feeling not so great. No MAJOR WD symptoms but anxiety, depression and lethargy were present in moderate amounts. I could have made it through the day without much of an issue but decided to continue following my Loperamide dosing plan. Took 800mg Tagamet followed, an hour later, by 24mg of Lope. It's all I have left, so thank goodness I had enough of it. 3 hours later I felt great. Totally normal except my back is in major pain. NO KRATOM TODAY! WAHOO!

I was incredibly productive and felt well today. I ordered a 200 pack of Lope online and expect delivery soon. I'll be buying a small store pack tonight to get me through tonight and tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see if now that I'm not taking Kratom completely my WD symptoms are still not present.

Thank God for Loperamide. This stuff is an absolute miracle for opiate withdrawal. Downright essential in my book.
 
Hey fallzdown. I am enjoying. Reading your journey. It's great that your wd's have really not existed!!!
i look forward to reading more about your recovery. Good luck!
 
Hey there Imtryin! Believe it or not, you were the inspiration for me to start this journal. I read many posts by you and gained an appreciation of your daily struggle. That actually prompted me to go from Lurker status (years) to finally coming out and sharing my story. I wanted to post a response to you many times but lacked the courage to admit my issues in a public forum. You've been very inspirational to me. Thank YOU for sharing your story!

Day 5 -PM

I've managed to avoid withdrawals almost entirely over the past 5 days with the help of support from members of this forum and large doses of Loperamide. Last week I spent 3.5 days in HELL trying to quit cold turkey and caved on day 4. This time has been a completely different story.

I will say that tonight was genuinely difficult. I had severe anxiety (like an 8.5 on a 10 scale) and near panic attacks over the most minor incidents. I'm at a cross roads in my life where I need to make big decisions every day, professionally. I'm glad I've been able to do it sober and clear headed but today there were numerous times when I wanted to just go off on my own and use. I don't have a steady source which makes it easier to stay clean. I *could* easily get oxy via my traditional method but it's not immediate and not worth the legal risk. I just have no desire to go back to that life (even if that life existed as nearly as a week ago). This would be exponentially harder for me if I were around people using or had easy access to pills. It might prove near impossible. I was SO productive today and made dozens of awesome decisions, but the anxiety had me questioning each one. I also had a few moments of realization that I can never use again and it scared me that I wouldn't have fun again. I remember that thinking from back when I was an active drinker. Thankfully I have proof that's not true, but sometimes it certainly feels like it is.

My back was killing me today, the anxiety was near unbearable and I had cravings. But I pushed through and feel much better tonight. Again, I attribute a large part of that to the fact that I'm following a large dose Loperamide schedule AND I've gone through it before with drinking and I know for a fact how much better it is to be sober and not a slave to a drug. Here's to hoping that the anxiety subsides tomorrow. It was rough. I only took 10mg of Lope this evening because it was all I had left (liquid form in the bottle). My box of 200 pills gets here tomorrow then I can continue on my dosing schedule and start to taper fast and hard.

It's clear to me now that I never developed mature coping skills and always turned to substances. I need to fix that.
 
^im hononoured by your comments. Thank you
its impressive that you are working, and making business decisions right now. You say you have some anxiety over it, do you have someone you can run some stuff by? It may make you feel better about your own decisions if there is someone you can trust In your life. I'm so glad you have gotten clean and are going to be able to live a little longer because of it
i look forward to reading your journal, it helps me more than you know
peace
 
Hey there Imtryin! I saw in the other thread that you've had 2 good days in a row. That's so good to hear. I hope you can ride the momentum and make it 3. Even if not, you still have 2 good days and no one or nothing can take that from you.

Actually, I too have had 2 good days in a row! Superb days. The Loperamide made all the difference in the word in terms of dealing with the physical WD symptoms. I would be SOL without it. I attribute my current success to AA and the 12-steps. I had a solid foundation from being a card carrying member for a few years so once the physical symptoms have been dealt with I can fall back on my AA literature and the knowledge I gained in the program to try and stay clean and healthy. So far it's working great. Had I not done this once before with alcohol and built up a very solid foundation for recovery I would be at a total loss right now.

Day 6

Woke up yesterday and took my normal dose of Tag and Lope (800 Tag, 24 Lope) and went out for a wonderful day with my girlfriend. I was active the entire day and got a lot of exercise and spent the whole day completely sober with my girlfriend. It was wonderful. No real anxiety because I stayed so active right up until bed time. At night I took the same doses again.

Day 7-
Was exhausted from all the exercise yesterday so I stayed in and just hung around the house. Not the best idea this early in recovery but I kept my mind busy. I felt a bit of anxiety and depression in the AM but 3-4 hours after my morning Lope dose, they both went away. Tonight I drop 4mg of Lope out of my scheduled dosing. It was a good day. Now I just have "normal" anxiety over a few issues in my life but I'll manage. In fact, I'll manage far better now that I'm going at everything clean.

The taper begins tonight. I'll keep updating.
 
Oh thank you so much for posting this journal....I am going through oxy w.d. like a beast, haven't had any for ...today is day 5. I am so wishy washy on what I want to do...I have a dr. Appt. Mon. Who will refill my oxy......legit. pain pt. But last two days I was given 2 30mg. Adderall which I broke in half . Took 2 yesterday...and finally felt almost normal.....if I could only have enough to get through the lethargy and depression part of the oxy w.d. I wouldn't go back to the dr. I'm on a contract with him. If I get urine tested tomorrow. .I'll fail with the addy. And no opiates. So next month probably goodbye....thinking of trying your method...but I am a gastric bypass pt. Have trouble "going" as it is....afraid the lopes will kill me. But reading your journal is so incredibly helpful.....thank you again. Ps....can you get addicted to the lopes though?
 
Hi Susu,

Sorry for the late post. I truly hope you're working through the issues. I've got some info you might find useful.
I'm now on Day 15 clean/sober and I've only been able to do it with the help of Loperamide. I tried to quit in the past but the WDs were just to difficult. The short answer is yes, Loperamide is addictive but not the same way oxy or other opiates/opioids are. Since there's no "good feeling", it's much easier to taper down until down. I'm still taking the Lope pills and have had a much slower taper than I wanted because I found that hints of withdrawal come back if I taper to hard. This shouldn't put you off from trying it though. It was the only thing that worked for me and countless others. Here's a thread on Lope:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...odium)-Megathread-v-2?p=13118327#post13118327

I found that 30mg of Lope, twice daily, alleviated nearly all of my withdrawal symptoms. I've also found that I can't just quit Lope cold turkey, I need to taper slowly. Right now I'm taking 11 pills twice daily (down from 15). I plan to remove 1 pill from each does every 2 days to see how it works. One thing is for sure though, I'm not high, I'm completely sober and I'm not withdrawaling. That's a blessing.

Another good aid for the going off pain meds is Kratom. You can get it online in a "Powdered leaf" kind of like a tea that's been ground up into the consistency of sugar. The great thing about it is that it will COMPLETELY kill your withdrawals and it makes going off the pain pills, much, much easier. It actually will get you buzzed and/or high so you aren't craving the pills either. And, last but not least, it's a very good pain killer. The downsides are that it tastes awful and it's addictive just like the pills. Meaning if you take it longer than 10 days or so you'll develop a dependence and it's withdrawals are pretty awful. You may need Lope (again) to withdrawal from the Kratom. I would suggest it as a good substitute if you desperately need pain relief but are ready to be done with the pills. Just be aware that it's addictive and you'll have a tough time coming off unless you use Lope. Here's the thread:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/727164-Kratom-Mega-Thread-V-4?p=13118350#post13118350


Day 15-
Been doing OK. Still on Lope (11 pills twice daily) and it still helps. No WD symptoms unless I miss the Lope. I tried to stop taking it cold turkey, thinking that would be fine, and it wasn't. The withdrawals do come back although they didn't seem as intense. So I'm tapering now (I started out at 15 pills twice daily), but slowly. I make sure to take Miralax and somtimes Senna to combat constipation. I wake up with mad anxiety but no other issues. The anxiety is likely related to a reduced dose of my anti depressant medication, but it could also be a withdrawal symptom. I can say that it feels amazing not to worry about my next score anymore, my next pill, chasing the high, finding the money, etc. I feel FREE and that's AMAZING. Loperamide is a wonder drug for all those going through this. I can't recommend it more highly. Just be aware that you WILL have to taper off or the symptoms come back and it can be a long road (looks like weeks at this point). I would much rather have to deal with that than everything related to an Oxy or even Kratom addiction.
 
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